Questions re Moroni 9:26 and Moses 1:39

[askandanswer]

 

26 And may the grace of God the Father, whose throne is high in the heavens, and our Lord Jesus Christ, who sitteth on the right hand of his power, until all things shall become subject unto him, be, and abide with you forever. Amen.

39 For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

Are these two outcomes an equal priority in the eyes of God? Or is one more important than the other? Or is one simply a means of bringing about the other?

[NeuroTypical]

Or perhaps they’re the same thing?  (Just top of my head gut response.  I haven’t given it any serious thought.)

[zil2]

I sometimes wish ancient languages didn't have pronouns and just repeated names.  Here's my interpretation of verse 26's pronouns (which may be utterly irrelevant):

26 And may the grace of God the Father, whose throne is high in the heavens, and our Lord Jesus Christ, who sitteth on the right hand of his God the Father's power, until all things shall become subject unto him Jesus Christ, be, and abide with you forever. Amen.

The immortality of man is brought to pass as a gift through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, so clearly there is no conflict here.  One can be subject to Christ and immortal at the same time.  No problem.

Eternal life is exaltation, living in the presence of God, living as God lives, inheriting all that God has.  While it may seem contradictory that the way to accomplish all that is to become subject to Christ, I think it's fairly obvious why that's the only way.  Being "subject" to Christ is being lifted by Him, not oppressed by Him.  It is being led, encouraged, taught, forgiven, and perfected by Him.  It is being made one with Him.  God's thoughts and ways are different from man's (quite possibly always the reverse of man's) and thus, God's subjection, rather than oppression or limitation, is exaltation.

Edited August 4, 2024 by zil2

[laronius]

Verse 39 is the outcome. Verse 26 describes how it's brought to pass. 

Though it could be argued that because we become yoked to Christ and one with Him, verse 26 also describes the same thing as verse 39 but I still think the author is specifically describing Christ's ability to save us in verse 26, not the result of us being saved.

[CV75]

9 hours ago, askandanswer said:

 

26 And may the grace of God the Father, whose throne is high in the heavens, and our Lord Jesus Christ, who sitteth on the right hand of his power, until all things shall become subject unto him, be, and abide with you forever. Amen.

39 For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

Are these two outcomes an equal priority in the eyes of God? Or is one more important than the other? Or is one simply a means of bringing about the other?

Are you comparing the two verses as outcomes, or the underlined items within the two verses as outcomes?

If the verses, would you specify what you interpret the respective outcomes to be?

If the underlined items, would you specify how these are outcomes (e.g., right hand, work, etc.)?

[askandanswer]

3 hours ago, CV75 said:

Are you comparing the two verses as outcomes, or the underlined items within the two verses as outcomes?

If the verses, would you specify what you interpret the respective outcomes to be?

If the underlined items, would you specify how these are outcomes (e.g., right hand, work, etc.)?

I'm thinking that one possibility is that these verses refer to two outcomes, or end results, of the Plan of Salvation - one outcome being the immortality and eternal life of man, and the other, all things becoming subject to Christ.

The underlinings in verse 39 are not from me. It's only just now, as a result of your comment, that I've looked again at verse 39 and noticed that the words work, glory, immortality and eternal life, appear as hyperlinks in lds.org, but when copied and pasted into thirdhour, those hyperlinks appear as underlined. 

[CV75]

9 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

I'm thinking that one possibility is that these verses refer to two outcomes, or end results, of the Plan of Salvation - one outcome being the immortality and eternal life of man, and the other, all things becoming subject to Christ.

The underlinings in verse 39 are not from me. It's only just now, as a result of your comment, that I've looked again at verse 39 and noticed that the words work, glory, immortality and eternal life, appear as hyperlinks in lds.org, but when copied and pasted into thirdhour, those hyperlinks appear as underlined. 

Thanks you. What do you mean by "priority" -- 1) that one event comes before another in time; 2) that one event is more  important that another; or,  3) that one event is given primary attention and allocated resources before others?

[askandanswer]

1 hour ago, CV75 said:

Thanks you. What do you mean by "priority" -- 1) that one event comes before another in time; 2) that one event is more  important that another; or,  3) that one event is given primary attention and allocated resources before others?

2 and 3 both seem to be equally good definitions in this context. I guess if one event is more important than other, you would be more inclined to allocate greater attention and resources to that event. 

[CV75]

1 hour ago, askandanswer said:

2 and 3 both seem to be equally good definitions in this context. I guess if one event is more important than other, you would be more inclined to allocate greater attention and resources to that event. 

Then I would say that the immortality and eternal life of man, as an event, occurs individually an innumerable number of times, and first occurred as far as we are concerned with Jesus by virtue of His Atonement (overcoming spiritual and temporal death). Moses 1:39 states an eternal purpose given in terms of this earth and the inhabitants thereof only (verse 35). So the individual event applies to this world, but the first event occurred much earlier as follows:

The Atonement of Jesus was prepared from before the foundation of the world, an event arising from eons of His previous labors under the eye of the Father prior to the Council in Heaven, where He volunteered and was chosen to make an earth (or earths as the case may be) upon which man can dwell and be proven according to the Father's work and glory (their immortality and eternal life).

So, comparing the preparation from before the foundation of the world to our earth's and its inhabitants' more limited temporal existence, and the resulting instances of individual immortality and eternal life, the Lord's preparation (attention and resources) for the Atonement is infinite and eternal, and expressed in our temporal sphere for our eternal benefit, in varying degrees according to our willingness to receive.

I would say the immortality and eternal life of man is subjection to Jesus our Savior (subjection to Jesus is immortality and eternal life), who qualified for this event, perhaps by the Father's grace (both in this world and throughout the preceding eons) before we did by the Son's grace. Subjection involves rulership or judgment. As the Father takes priority over the Son and judges Him perfect, the Son takes priority over His children of spiritual rebirth and judges them.

Edited August 5, 2024 by CV75

[CV75]

21 hours ago, CV75 said:

Then I would say that the immortality and eternal life of man, as an event, occurs individually an innumerable number of times, and first occurred as far as we are concerned with Jesus by virtue of His Atonement (overcoming spiritual and temporal death). Moses 1:39 states an eternal purpose given in terms of this earth and the inhabitants thereof only (verse 35). So the individual event applies to this world, but the first event occurred much earlier as follows:

The Atonement of Jesus was prepared from before the foundation of the world, an event arising from eons of His previous labors under the eye of the Father prior to the Council in Heaven, where He volunteered and was chosen to make an earth (or earths as the case may be) upon which man can dwell and be proven according to the Father's work and glory (their immortality and eternal life).

So, comparing the preparation from before the foundation of the world to our earth's and its inhabitants' more limited temporal existence, and the resulting instances of individual immortality and eternal life, the Lord's preparation (attention and resources) for the Atonement is infinite and eternal, and expressed in our temporal sphere for our eternal benefit, in varying degrees according to our willingness to receive.

I would say the immortality and eternal life of man is subjection to Jesus our Savior (subjection to Jesus is immortality and eternal life), who qualified for this event, perhaps by the Father's grace (both in this world and throughout the preceding eons) before we did by the Son's grace. Subjection involves rulership or judgment. As the Father takes priority over the Son and judges Him perfect, the Son takes priority over His children of spiritual rebirth and judges them.

@zil2 and @askandanswer:

I would like to add that I think Abraham 3 touches on this in that all spirits are gnolaum, but the Lord is more intelligent than they all. This being the case, He acquired more attention and resources than the rest of us, and in becoming subject to Him, He gives* all that** to us, added upon our heads for ever and ever.

* which is work

** which is glory

Edited August 5, 2024 by CV75

[Traveler]

All that is done by G-d the Father – all that is given and provided through the Plan of Salvation is done by and through Jesus Christ.   This is in part what is meant by the fall of man.  That Jesus Christ is the proctor of our covenant and the only means of salvation and eternal life.  This is what is meant by Jesus Christ as our father – not to be confused with the Father of our Spirit.

For @CV75 - I have come to think of glory as the divine currency of heaven.  It is what we are paid or given for performing divine works.  It is also that which we can leverage in eternity to accomplish and pay others for their contributions.

 

The Traveler

[CV75]

2 hours ago, Traveler said:

All that is done by G-d the Father – all that is given and provided through the Plan of Salvation is done by and through Jesus Christ.   This is in part what is meant by the fall of man.  That Jesus Christ is the proctor of our covenant and the only means of salvation and eternal life.  This is what is meant by Jesus Christ as our father – not to be confused with the Father of our Spirit.

For @CV75 - I have come to think of glory as the divine currency of heaven.  It is what we are paid or given for performing divine works.  It is also that which we can leverage in eternity to accomplish and pay others for their contributions.

 

The Traveler

Currency has relational as well as transactional properties. If glory is currency, what is work (i.e., performance, contribution, etc.), since His work and His glory cannot be separated and these perpetuate His work and glory?

Edited August 10, 2024 by CV75

[Jersey Boy]

On 8/4/2024 at 3:58 AM, askandanswer said:

 

26 And may the grace of God the Father, whose throne is high in the heavens, and our Lord Jesus Christ, who sitteth on the right hand of his power, until all things shall become subject unto him, be, and abide with you forever. Amen.

39 For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

Are these two outcomes an equal priority in the eyes of God? Or is one more important than the other? Or is one simply a means of bringing about the other?

The expression “all things shall become subject unto him” is not necessarily referring to exaltation. In the end, at the time of the final judgement, all the sons of men, with the exception sons of perdition, will eventually come unto Christ in faith and accept him as their Lord and Savior, willingly becoming subject to his rulership. This is evidenced by the following verses from Doctrine and Covenants 76 which are speaking of the inheritors of the post-resurrection telestial kingdom of glory…

106 These are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, until the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work;

The above verse is pointing to the fact that those wicked individuals, who are thrust into the spirit prison at the time of death, will, sooner or later, eventually seek deliverance from their imprisonment and suffering, in the full realization that the only way to bring their agonies to an end is to come unto Christ in faith and accept deliverance and a degree of salvation at his hand through faith in his atoning sacrifice, as these additional verses from Doctrine and Covenants 76 clearly bear record…

109 But behold, and lo, we saw the glory and the inhabitants of the telestial world, that they were as innumerable as the stars in the firmament of heaven, or as the sand upon the seashore;

110 And heard the voice of the Lord saying: These all shall bow the knee, and every tongue shall confess to him who sits upon the throne forever and ever;

111 For they shall be judged according to their works, and every man shall receive according to his own works, his own dominion, in the mansions which are prepared;

112 And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end. (Doctrine and Covenants 76)

From the above verses we understand that the inheritors of the telestial kingdom of heavenly glory will 1) Confess to God the Father on the day of judgement that Jesus is Lord and Savior. 2) Through their acceptance of Christ, they will be made worthy and fit to enter a mansion of heavenly glory that Christ has prepared for them. 3) Through their travails in the spirit prison, and their eventual deliverance through repentance, they will become spiritually transformed enough to become servants of God in eternity, though they will not dwell in his immediate presence.

To encapsulate: becoming subject unto Christ is not necessarily synonymous with receiving eternal life. 

Edited August 15, 2024 by Jersey Boy