ever thought of leaving the church?

[toBdetermined]

Hello all!

I am new to this site and this is probably not the best place for someone like me... but what the "heck". I am actively inactive, meaning I have chosen to be an inactive Mormon longer than an active one - but never having 'officially' left.

A little history: I was born and raised in the church, my parents and siblings are active churchgoers, 2 have been married in the temple, and 1 is currently serving a mission. I am married and have children. My husband is not - and never will be - a member. I consider myself to be conservative and have not personally had any traumatic experience related to the church.

I am not here to discuss of argue doctrine, rather, gain some perspective on members who may be in a similar place.

I understand this site is pro-Mormon. I am not anti-Mormon. I am tired of hearing stories from bitter ex-Mormons and figured I'd try this approach. But please, do me a favor - if you consider replying to this, please refrain from bearing your testimony and have (at least!) a little life-experience (as in no one under 18 - thanks!)

My intention is not to offend, just wondering if there are people out there who just aren't quite able to come to terms with this religion. I'd love to hear from you.

God bless:)

[Elphaba]

Hello all!

I am new to this site and this is probably not the best place for someone like me... but what the "heck". I am actively inactive, meaning I have chosen to be an inactive Mormon longer than an active one - but never having 'officially' left.

A little history: I was born and raised in the church, my parents and siblings are active churchgoers, 2 have been married in the temple, and 1 is currently serving a mission. I am married and have children. My husband is not - and never will be - a member. I consider myself to be conservative and have not personally had any traumatic experience related to the church.

I am not here to discuss of argue doctrine, rather, gain some perspective on members who may be in a similar place.

I understand this site is pro-Mormon. I am not anti-Mormon. I am tired of hearing stories from bitter ex-Mormons and figured I'd try this approach. But please, do me a favor - if you consider replying to this, please refrain from bearing your testimony and have (at least!) a little life-experience (as in no one under 18 - thanks!)

My intention is not to offend, just wondering if there are people out there who just aren't quite able to come to terms with this religion. I'd love to hear from you.

God bless:)

I left 25 years ago. I am still very connected to the Church, and there are things I still love about the Church. It's as if I am still Mormon, except that I don't believe in the Mormon god, or any other god.

Elphaba

[pushka]

I attended the local LDS chapel for 5 years back in the 70's, then I left for 26 years and just returned about a month ago. I was a little different from you, as I left under pressure from my then boyfriend. I didn't follow all the 'rules' properly and didn't want to be a hypocrite, so I didn't get Baptised.

I have read lots of accounts of ex-Mormons too, and I do understand some of the reasons for people having left, perhaps over zealous Mormons have treated them less than kindly, unintentionally, but I do wonder sometimes how some people can have such bad experiences of the church while others seem perfectly happy with it?

Anyway, nice to hear from you... :)

[NeuroTypical]

Hi TBD,

I went inactive as soon as my mom got sick enough to not be able to make me go to church. I eventually came back 6 years later after taking a bit of a journey to find truth.

The way I see it, the only good reason to be Mormon, is you believe God wants you to be one. Anything else is just wishful thinking or social reasons or denial.

So, do you believe in God? If so, do you know what He wants you to do? Do you know how to find out?

LM

[Canuck Mormon]

I left the church when I was 17-18 years old. I never went back until I was 31. I never took my name off the records or spoke against the church, I just didn't go. My spouse at the time was against the church, and still is. I did return when my life fell apart and I hit rock bottom.

I hope you enjoy this site and get lots from it. I know I have.

[Misshalfway]

TBD,

Hello. I think it takes a lot of courage to share your thoughts the way you did. Thanks for your candor and honesty. Do you struggle with doctrine? What is it that you can't come to terms with? I think I struggle with mormon culture rather than mormon doctrine. I sometimes feel (I live in Utah) that many are worried about appearing "perfect" or appearing as though they have it all together and blessings in spades. Kinda feel like friendship can either be made or broken on whether or not you are in the exact spiritual place as everyone else. Don't know if anyone knows what I am talking about but, kinda wish it was easier for everyone to come to Christ at their own pace and in an honest and real way. I think I also struggle a bit with perfectionism as a result of my experience with the church. I don't think that is truly the doctrine. Just good people kinda misunderstanding. I also think that some in the church struggle with being judgmental. I may be one of them at times. It is a struggle to hate the sin but love the sinner. I had some non-member friends who moved away from Utah because their LDS neighbors gave them a hard time about mowing their lawn on Sunday....and other things as well. Kinda broke my heart. Those neighbors missed out. Their own judgements became a stumbling block and they missed the blessing of knowing these people. God looketh upon the heart. Wish we were better at doing this as a people.

[Stampede]

TBD,

I Was inactive from the time i was 16 till about 7 months ago.

You should ask yourself this question "Why did i leave?" then i want you to think about the times you were at church, did you feel love and comfort? think about those times and ponder it. how did you REALLY feel?

Here is another question you should ask yourself. "If i go, will my husband support me?" he doesn't have to go or believe anything but he should be able to support your own descision to go back to church (if you do)

I was in a relationship for a couple years and i was living with the girlfriend at the time. and i felt this strong desire to return to church, She didn't have to go, but i needed her support in the matter, and she couldn't give me that, she scoffed at it and made me feel stupid. so i dumped her.

I only left because i felt guilty over the things i had done and was too afraid to step up and face my consequences, and when i didn't go back, i never was ANTI, and i never lost my testimony, and wherever i went i found the church and had my records transferred.

Well, when i was dating my wife I again felt the desire to go back to church. she had never really heard of it and she was raised catholic, but she still supported me in my descision and let me go to church and even came with me on occasion, then i started getting my life straightened out.

this last weekend i was able to baptize my wife, she started investigating the church and found so much peace and love and truth in it and she loves it. she did all that on her own, i didn't do anything. she even told me at one point that "I don't want to learn about it" and that "our children will get baptized before I do".

If you want to go back to church i would encourage you to go. It is an amaing experience that you pick up on when it has been gone from your life for so long.

If not, I can only hope that one day you experience something that lets you see the gospel for what it really is.

[Elgama]

wonder if that makes me inactively active hmm - there are times where I do want to leave church, I haven't yet but right now I am torn between doing what God wants and what I want. (sorry if it sounds like a testimony not intended its just the way I am seeing things right now) - I have so many experiences that have taught me I am in the right place that I would be a bit like Laman and Lemuel walking away after seeing the angel. But unlike yourself have had bad experiences - I love the church doctrines and I am pretty mainstream in belief just I don't like attending, I am back at being content with going after a blessing that told me to write my blessings down all of them and use them as reference but at one point it took a blessing every Saturday night, one on Sunday morning and one on Sunday afternoon to get to church - I am still nervous about being alone in the building when I know one certain sister is about, and I can't use the baby changing room as a result.

Basically a lady at church spent several years belittling me, flirting with my husband ( he didn't notice lol but its was a bit sick she was nearly 50 and he at the time was 24), physically trapping me in spaces and berating me, then gossiping about being mad - she nearly destroyed me I was low with Post Natel Depression at the time, and my husband and I have had a rough few years (immigration trouble, death, lack of employment, daughter born early,miscarriages etc), I used to be happy and confident, I am now content but confidence is taking time and I still get scared walking through the doors at church, so some weeks I just can't do it - its not so much forgiving her as I feel a bit sorry for her tbh - its forgiving myself for allowing her to do it - I know a lot of it is down to me and I don't know why I can't move on its 2 years since she started ignoring me (thats her idea of the worst thing she can do to me its a relief).

My life would be so much easier and happier without church right now.

-Charley .

[Stampede]

wonder if that makes me inactively active hmm - there are times where I do want to leave church, I haven't yet but right now I am torn between doing what God wants and what I want. (sorry if it sounds like a testimony not intended its just the way I am seeing things right now) - I have so many experiences that have taught me I am in the right place that I would be a bit like Laman and Lemuel walking away after seeing the angel. But unlike yourself have had bad experiences - I love the church doctrines and I am pretty mainstream in belief just I don't like attending, I am back at being content with going after a blessing that told me to write my blessings down all of them and use them as reference but at one point it took a blessing every Saturday night, one on Sunday morning and one on Sunday afternoon to get to church - I am still nervous about being alone in the building when I know one certain sister is about, and I can't use the baby changing room as a result.

Basically a lady at church spent several years belittling me, flirting with my husband ( he didn't notice lol but its was a bit sick she was nearly 50 and he at the time was 24), physically trapping me in spaces and berating me, then gossiping about being mad - she nearly destroyed me I was low with Post Natel Depression at the time, and my husband and I have had a rough few years (immigration trouble, death, lack of employment, daughter born early,miscarriages etc), I used to be happy and confident, I am now content but confidence is taking time and I still get scared walking through the doors at church, so some weeks I just can't do it - its not so much forgiving her as I feel a bit sorry for her tbh - its forgiving myself for allowing her to do it - I know a lot of it is down to me and I don't know why I can't move on its 2 years since she started ignoring me (thats her idea of the worst thing she can do to me its a relief).

My life would be so much easier and happier without church right now.

-Charley .

I'm very sorry to hear all of that. have you talked with your bishop about what to do?

tellh im everythign he is there to help you and listen to you. he is given discernemnt and the avalability of revelation regarding the lives of those whom he serves.

Some times when people pray to the lord for help at home, he doesn't zap them with warm fuzzy feelings, but instead gives them opportunitites for the family to pull together and love one another.

When people ask for courage, does the lord give them courage? or does he give them opportunities to be courageous?

i learned a long time ago, that if trials keep happening to me, i haven't learned something yet, and that i need to pick up and learn wht i'm supposed to.

I really hope the best for you in your life and hope that everything works out. :)

[Moksha]

I listened to this most excellent podcast last night for those who are having questions and struggles with the Church:

Mormon Stories Podcast Mormon Stories #109: How to Stay in the LDS Church after Losing Your Faith

[Maya]

I have not been inactive, but I had had a good reason for it. How ever my curiosity about knowing what God has for us this sunday was greater. And I madesure for myself WHY I attendand I attend because of the gospel, Jeus, My Hevenly Father.

[Elgama]

I'm very sorry to hear all of that. have you talked with your bishop about what to do?

tellh im everythign he is there to help you and listen to you. he is given discernemnt and the avalability of revelation regarding the lives of those whom he serves.

Some times when people pray to the lord for help at home, he doesn't zap them with warm fuzzy feelings, but instead gives them opportunitites for the family to pull together and love one another.

When people ask for courage, does the lord give them courage? or does he give them opportunities to be courageous?

i learned a long time ago, that if trials keep happening to me, i haven't learned something yet, and that i need to pick up and learn wht i'm supposed to.

I really hope the best for you in your life and hope that everything works out. :)

I did try to talk to my Branch President and Stake President but they didn't want to hear about it - quite rightly really its tough for me but several branches in the Stake including ours were tearing themselves apart and they couldn't afford to be involved because of that they have increased the spirit in our branch as a whole and the Stake is much stronger - both are beautiful strong men but listening to troubles isn't their strongest suit especially when it starts off sounding like the trouble the branch has had. I had told a couple of other Sisters which helped hugely for a long time as they made sure if the Sister concerned followed me out of sacrament one of them came too - I am stronger now and have started standing up for myself more, but my two Sisters one has moved away, and the other her husband is really sick right now she has her own struggles, I am feeling a wee bit vulnerable again because I am ill. I don't really have anyone left to turn too.

-Charley

[toBdetermined]

Thank you for your responses. I wish I could address each individually, but for the sake of time...

Let me just say - I respect those of you who maintain your faith in light of your own personal struggles with spouses or other members. My reason for posting is complicated. My husband is very much opposed to the church and wants our children to have nothing to do with it. Honestly, I can't say I disagree. I grew up thinking it was wrong to question the church, and any information 'against' the church was simply misinformation, completely unfounded, or for lack of better words, "of the devil".

Only in my adult years do I come to realize there is much more to this story than I was ever taught. There is so much censorship regarding the early history of the church. I am not the kind of person who believes everything I hear or read. My information comes from multiple sources. Historical facts and science do not support claims of the church. Of course, the material is always considered subjective - seeing as it can neither be proved or disproved... but that's another story...

I guess what I struggle with is this: Jesus died for all mankind. He didn't die for those who were baptized, married in the temple, or went to church every Sunday. I don't believe a person can do anything [more] to obtain eternal salvation. I believe there is an afterlife and that every person will be judged for what they do while on this earth. My perspective is that there is so much focus placed on individuals and the family (not complaining) that it is more a matter of self-preservation than actually living a "Christ-like" life. Then again, maybe I attribute this to growing up in an LDS community and seeing a lot of hypocrisy.

Additionally...

I think it is wrong to inundate young children with "the truth". I feel it's a rather audacious to claim to be the "one true church". I don't understand how people of all different faiths claim to have the same spiritual manifestations (of the holy spirit) yet they haven't received the 'fullness of the gospel'? I mean come on - what does that even mean? When you already have all the answers, it doesn't leave much room to learn something new, does it? And where does faith come into play? Mormons have either got to be the most faithful - or faithless on the planet! :)

Anyway - to make a long story longer...

I can't help but wonder if many people stay in the church out of obligation, guilt, or fear... My parents were married in the temple 30 years ago. I think the only reason they never divorced was because they were sealed. I have seen them (mostly my mother) miserable most of my life. I think God wants people to live happy, fulfilling lives - not live out of the fear they will lose it all in the life after this. I think we are here to serve God, and that will be our purpose after this life, not securing personal spiritual mansions.

Am I on my own here? Also I must ask - If you felt that Joseph Smith was not a prophet, would you stay in the church?

Sorry if this jumps around too much - it's pretty late. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

[Elgama]

if you don't believe the church is true or Joseph Smith is a prophet I struggle to understand the point in staying - where I live the church isn't cultural in anyway you believe or you leave.

I couldn't honestly stay if I didn't believe it was where God wants me - for me God comes first and if he lead me another path I'd take it - what does he have to say about your situation?

-Charley

[Misshalfway]

TBD, Thanks for being honest about your feelings and concerns. That takes courage and I applaud that.

I just wanted to comment on some of your statements.

guess what I struggle with is this: Jesus died for all mankind. He didn't die for those who were baptized, married in the temple, or went to church every Sunday. I don't believe a person can do anything [more] to obtain eternal salvation. I believe there is an afterlife and that every person will be judged for what they do while on this earth. My perspective is that there is so much focus placed on individuals and the family (not complaining) that it is more a matter of self-preservation than actually living a "Christ-like" life. Then again, maybe I attribute this to growing up in an LDS community and seeing a lot of hypocrisy.

I think what you are talking about is the difference between "Coming to Christ" and performing essential ordinances and practices in Christ's gospel. The fact is that the "doing" of the ordinances (sealing, bap, going to church, etc.) can either be a true expression of deep faith and devotion or it can be "going thru the motions" or "keeping up appearances." You have probably seen all varieties of mormon devotion all along the spectrum. The truth is that baptism is the beginning of the path of coming to Christ. But the the pursuit is a life long process. God will judge the heart. And it is through practicing his commandments and obeying them and participating in the gospel process that the true changes in our hearts and behavior occur. They are changes that take discipline and dedication and committment. Line upon line, precept upon precept. He changes and perfects and helps and forgives and strengthens all along the way. And to the true disciple of Christ, there is happiness in that journey. I think that we are all individuals and are all on our own unique journey to Christ. None of us has "arrived" at sainthood. None of us are perfect no matter how we "look". I believe the church is comprised of many souls journeying at different speeds and with different levels understanding. I believe that all us have to deal with tests and tempations that try us and push us to decide where and how we will choose. In the church, you will most definitely find human weakness. Just because it is the true church of Christ on the earth, doesn't mean it suddenly perfects anyone who joins.

I am sad to hear that your parents were unhappy. I don't know if divorce would have made them any happier. But the choice to be happy or not.....to live and think and behave in the ways of happiness are individual choices. God can invite but he cannot and will not force. Your parents had and have many choices about how they will live. I feel worry when I hear that the church and its doctrines are to blame for anyones unhappiness. My understanding of unhappiness is that is comes from incorrect thinking and behaving. It is part of our God given personal responsibility. It is clear to me that membership alone does not ensure happiness. Nor does the outer actions of any person. The happy only comes when the heart is changed and the heart can only be changed if the person is willing. So, are there people in the church that stay out of guilt? Probably. Are there people who stay because they love the lord and follow with the deepest devotion. Most assuredly. If any testimony is based upon the actions of individuals, then it is a weak testimony and at some point will fail. Testimony must be based in truth. Is Joseph a prophet? You can't prove it. I can't prove it. Controversy surrounds every religion. Many parts of the Bible cannot be proven. Buddism or judiam or any world religion cannot be proven. Go study any of them and see if science can convince you. Science will fall short every time. That is why prayer is the ONLY way to know. The SPIRIT is the only way to truly know. Membership in this church can't save you. Going through the motions can't save you either. It is about true conversion and allowing Jesus Christ into your heart and your life and your behavior and your choices.

Is it audacious to state that this is the Only true and living Church? You bet it is. But it is not a statement of arragance. It is a statement of confidence .... made by the Father himself in a revelation given to Joseph. The question for all of us, is whether or not God spoke to Joseph. If Joseph is right, then every confidence can and should be placed behind this church and this work. If it is NOT true, God will tell you. And you can have full confidence in that belief. The bottom line is that you find out on your knees. I also think that it is important to understand that this church has never professed to "know it all". It professed to be the restored gospel in its fullness.....not missing any essential doctrine or ordinance necessary for salvation. God has told us that he has more to share with us but it is not the right time. So certainly, we don't know it all. There is much we have yet to learn. But we follow the revelation. Not the popular notions of our day and time.

I have doubted. I have searched. I have questioned. I have plead with the Lord to know. And over and over and over again my faith has been confirmed. I am not special. I am sooooo imperfect. I stumble so easily. BUt I know it is true. As much as I argue with it, I can't deny it. That is my simple testimony. And so I teach my children. I don't teach them the truth alone. But I teach them about how to know for themselves and I let them choose. I teach them how to choose. I teach them how to discern and how to ask questions. And who to ask them to. I am sorry you were taught not to question the church. The very beginnings of this religion came because of questions. Every revelation that came to Joseph came after he asked a question. And he didn't always like the answer. It wasn't always convenient or popular or scientific or logical or self interested. This church is ALL about questions. I talk to God all the time. I ask Him every question not matter how doubtful it sounds. That is what I think makes this church different than others. You can ALWAYs ask a question! Ask and ye shall receive, knock and it shall be opened unto you!

[Guest AutumnBreez]

comment "he is not a member and never will be" Your comment is strong with fear. He does not know his future any more than you know yours.

Fear to progress...this is not from God.

I have been there....I struggle at times with my inactive member husband but it is only getting better... at first I thought we were going to get divorced, seriously! It became snarled before I went back. He would not go to any counselling. I spoke to the Bishop, then he set up time for my husband, sec. called and requested a time for husband, he accepted.

The Bishop talked to him, he did not want to go, yet he did not want to look like the unsupportive husband that he was being in the home away from others. What ever was discussed in the Bishops office has brought about a more peaceful home, better communication, less sarcasm. The time we have is short. I was away from the church for 13 long years before coming back because I "knew" that it was going to be a major struggle with him. I tried to live life his way just to keep the peace within the walls of the home. I also knew that I was only kidding myself and wanted so many times to go back to the Church. I would find some lame excuse and chose to believe the lies. I was decieving myself-my true self was hurting and I ignored it for so long, but what I really knew was that I could not carry on. At one point in time, I even convinced myself that maybe the whole christian faith was a lie. It seemed easier for me at the time to convince myself of this than to face the real TRUTH- I may loose my husband due to his lack of faith and beliefs if I go back to the Truth-- other truth was...I was putting my husband before God.

Years of pain came and went, and came again. Denial of the Truth was my pain. Resentment grew, resentment for my husband that I love so much. I came to an older age and realized how much time I lost with my relationship with our Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost.

I have had to rebuild. This is taking time, however, it is better than before. I must endure to the end- this takes on a whole new meaning. Not endure because of my husband and him acting up, but that with the our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. Putting God first!!! Trusting in Him to heal me and bring me back to Him. I have no control over my husband. I do have control over my own decision to progress.

It has taken alot of work to establish this new relationship. I had to forgive myself for the mistakes. I had to give up the fear for deep faith in Christ. You can not serve two masters. Torturous- I know I tried.

Don't gamble your relationship with Him. I think my husband has had to come to terms that I continue to grow stronger and not going to backstep. I love the Youth Theme this year. - Steadfast and Immovable. I am learning from YW (as Sec.) much of what I did not get growing up. I did not grow up as a young child in the Church. I converted firstly at age 25, now 38. Just returned last fall. Follow your heart (love), not fear. You will find more joy, promise.

Added:

My parents are not in the Church, not members, not sealed, married since 1965, still married, my mother has been miserable through out. She made a commitment, she stayed through bad and good. My father has different views than hers (mom-Christian values), she is still miserable now. She cried on my bed when she was visiting when we talked about her and dad. She never worked outside the home, she lost her office skills and her confidence. She did not have an education beyond H.S., she is dependant on her husband financially. He supported us all , 4 kids and a wife.

She feels obligated. No sealing. Just obligated.

[Guest Malcolm]

TBD:

My heart really goes out to you. I can feel the pain and the despair in your post. I also sense how you have internalized the mistrust and rejection that your husband espouses for the Church. I would not comment on the specifics of your marriage since I have not a clue.

What YOU believe is at the core of your religious life. Depending on circumstances, people develop a certain "believe" system that by far reflect more their general state of mind than the doctrine. Not believing that the ordinances are critical for eternal salvation and progression signals to me that you are trying to reconcile/justify your current reality. That is a dangerous route, my sister. Rationalizing serves only one purpose; provide temporary relief for the tension and frustration our current circumstances create. You are free to discount and disagree with the doctrine of the church. You are free to raise your children according to your will. Know that if you do not instruct them somebody else will, there is no middle ground there. I wonder if you believe that it would be better if your children grow up without the Gospel?

More than anything I think the real issue is that your testimony about the Restoration has faltered. Years of inactivity and negative influence have robbed you of your faith and your ability to discern between struggle and truth. I think the exhaustion of the struggle zapped you energy and your faith. I hear you are beginning to sound like your husband, maybe? As pointed earlier; you can not serve two masters and you can not worship God your way since he had commanded how we should worship Him if we so desire to come onto Him. The world has tried for two thousand years without success. Again, this where faith and testimony become the iron rod to hold on to or you fall.

My heart goes out to you for I know that you are suffering. The very fact that you come and share points to that reality. I sincerely wish that you would for an hour alone, meditate all these things in your heart. If you were not married to your husband with children and in the circumstances that you find yourself today; would you still be a faithful member of the church? Were you active at one time? Have you stood before the congregation and bore testimony to the Restoration and the Priesthood? If you have then you must realize that the doctrine have not changed since that time. Your life did, your circumstances did and your faith wavered with the trying and the struggle. If not then your faith never matured, your acquaintance with the spirit was not strong enough and your foundation did not have the strength to carry you thru the difficult times that came.

"And if thou shouldst be cast into the apit, or into the hands of murderers, and the sentence of death passed upon thee; if thou be cast into the deep; if the billowing surge conspire against thee; if fierce winds become thine enemy; if the heavens gather blackness, and all the elements combine to hedge up the way; and above all, if the very jaws of hell shall gape open the mouth wide after thee, know thou, my son, that all these things shall give thee experience, and shall be for thy good." D&C 122:7

I pray that you may find your way, my sister but you MUST have faith.

[Guest tomk]

My advice is to stop looking to man for what only God can provide.

[ztodd]

please refrain from bearing your testimony and have (at least!) a little life-experience (as in no one under 18 - thanks!)

Testimony is the only thing that matters when it comes to spiritual truth. Take that for what it's worth from a 31 year old who has tried to over-analyze things my whole life. Re-discover your own testimony and your confusion will clear away.

[WillowTheWhisp]

It's hard to answer this thread without testimony coming into it.

Many years ago, not long after we were baptised, my late husband and I left the church. We didn't go inactive. We left. We had our names deleted from the records. We'd been married and sealed in the temple but we lost all that when we had our names removed.

We didn't leave because we no longer thought the church was true. I never once doubted that the church was true, and my husband still used to carry a Book of Mormon around in the car. If anyone brought up any anti-Mormon subjects we would be quick to defend the truth.

So why on earth did we leave? For me it was a mixture of things. The first was that as new converts we were overwhelmed with the image of perfection which was placed before us of what we ought to be - and I tried to be everything all at once, including an immediate 12 months storage which cost a fortune and then left us with credit card bills which were another 'sin'. Sisters who had been in the church 40 years or more were held up as an example of what I should be like, but then I saw one of these 'perfect' women laughing at a crude joke which I found embarrassing. I served on the RS Presidency and was shocked at the way two sisters in a position of responsibility criticized another sister in the Ward. There was a priesthood holder who drove me up the wall with his nit picking and fault finding. Finally I drew two conclusions - one that I would never be able to reach this goal of perfection because I always failed in one way or another, and two that if the Celestial Kingdom was going to be populated by the hypocrites I'd found in the church then they were welcome to it because I didn't want to spend eternity with them!

All the time I was not a church member I never actually doubted that Joseph Smith was a prophet or that the Book of Mormon was true. My husband and I even went to other churches trying to find somewhere where the members were 'human' like us but wherever we went they didn't believe the things we believed. They didn't believe in the pre-existence. They didn't believe God is our literal Heavenly Father and Jesus our brother. They didn't believe that those who have died without hearing the gospel are still able to hear and accept it in the spirit world. Some didn't even believe that Satan was a real individual. There was nowhere else which taught the full truth and we knew what the truth was.

We were still in touch with some church members and one day when helping out one sister we met a missionary couple who asked us which ward we belonged to. When we told them we weren't church members they looked surprised because we obviously knew and agreed with everything they believed. That was when we realised that we had left the church because of people and yet we had joined the church because of Christ.

We were re-baptised and eventually had our temple blessings restored and our children were born in the covenant. The hypocrites - well some of them are still hyprocrites, some have changed and grown spiritually, some have themselves left the church. I am no longer here because of people and I will never leave because of people. I'm here because it's true, because I know it's true and nothing anyone says or does will ever change the fact that it's true.

The only person I hurt by leaving the church was me.

I was saddened to read in a previous post of a sister who makes another sister's life a misery by her appalling attitude and actions. I'm even more saddened if I have read and understood correctly that the Branch President does not want to know about these problems because they want a spiritual branch and facing these problems reduces the spirituality. Oh how very wrong. It is not facing up to such problems which reduces the spirituality. Glossing over them and pretending they do not exist is Satan's way. The Lord's way is to face them and solve them and by doing so you grow stronger. The sister who is doing these despicable things is doing nothing for her own spirituality and needs to be helped to recognise this. I have known many people who seemed 'holier than thou' but were in fact totally lacking in humility, teachability and spirituality. It's a bit like climbing up a rameumptum and letting people see how holy you are instead of bowing your head in humility before the Lord and admitting how holy you aren't.

Don't stay in the church, or leave the church for people around you. Do it for yourself and for the Lord.

[toBdetermined]

Again, I thank you for your insight and perspectives.

Misshalfway: I appreciate your explanation of true devotion vs. 'going through the motions'. I guess I need to remember that there are people who choose to live this religion for their own personal convictions and not just because they were raised to do so. You are right about my parents as well. Unhappiness, as you stated, often "comes from incorrect thinking or behaving". I know neither of them blame their unhappiness on their choice to be sealed or the church. It makes me sad to think that they would stay in an unhealthy marriage because they are worried about what they won't have in the life after this. (this is by my mothers own admission, fearing the loss of that "forever family") I don't believe in a God that would deny someone happiness and peace in heaven for wanting the same on earth. (Albeit - their issues are far more complex - I hope that wouldn't be the deciding factor) Also, I thank you for assuring me that it's ok to doubt and question. I guess that is the way we learn, right? :)

AutumnBreez: your statement of "serving two masters" hit me like a ton of bricks. Of course, it is one I grew up hearing, but never really realized that that is exactly what I do. My husband is very anti-mormon. It didn't start out that way, in fact, in the beginning he had been to church with me, taken discussions, supported me going, and had no problem with our children being raised with that influence. Of course, me being inactive and not living that lifestyle gave him ammo that he used against me constantly. I have spent the bulk of our 5 year marriage on the defense, for a religion that I myself have never had a strong testimony of. He was raised very strong evangelical christian, and all we can seem to agree upon are basic morals. He is very much removed from his religious upbringing and for lack of a better word, I would consider us both theistic, or even borderline agnostic. I love him and try very hard to keep the peace with him when it comes to religion, and hear him out on pretty much everything. In the meantime, I deeply desire a personal relationship with God and want to instill in my children that same desire.

Thank you for sharing the story of your mom. I understand everyone feels a sense of obligation in one form or another. I depend on my husband financially and that is hard for me. The only thing worse in my book would be depending on him, or anyone else, for my spiritual needs. Thankfully, I still remember where my knees are :)

Malcolm: Wow. You really hit the nail on the head. This may sound backwards, but nothing would make me happier that knowing the church was not true. I could go on happily with my life, one less burden removed from my marriage, and I could be on my way to rediscovering "truth". However, I live with the fear that it could maybe possibly be true - and that I have shut it out on purpose.

I consider myself to be rational and reasonably intelligent, therefore I feel that my decisions should be based in fact and logic. I struggle with scientific evidence and historical facts. I don't think Joseph Smith was a prophet. I have never had a strong testimony of the church. I believe in God and that he desires good things for me. That's pretty much it. Haha - would it be ironic to be uncertain of the very existence of faith? (or just cynical...) What moved me most in reading these posts was your statement of who would be the one to instruct my children. All this time I spent worrying about them being indoctrinated with beliefs that are not my own, I have given them nothing. Although they are still very young, I know that it is important for me to be that influence, so I should probably bring something to the table! I have a lot to think about... and will. I thank you for your compassion and insight.

To all - thanks again...

B

[Misshalfway]

It's hard to answer this thread without testimony coming into it.

Many years ago, not long after we were baptised, my late husband and I left the church. We didn't go inactive. We left. We had our names deleted from the records. We'd been married and sealed in the temple but we lost all that when we had our names removed.

We didn't leave because we no longer thought the church was true. I never once doubted that the church was true, and my husband still used to carry a Book of Mormon around in the car. If anyone brought up any anti-Mormon subjects we would be quick to defend the truth.

So why on earth did we leave? For me it was a mixture of things. The first was that as new converts we were overwhelmed with the image of perfection which was placed before us of what we ought to be - and I tried to be everything all at once, including an immediate 12 months storage which cost a fortune and then left us with credit card bills which were another 'sin'. Sisters who had been in the church 40 years or more were held up as an example of what I should be like, but then I saw one of these 'perfect' women laughing at a crude joke which I found embarrassing. I served on the RS Presidency and was shocked at the way two sisters in a position of responsibility criticized another sister in the Ward. There was a priesthood holder who drove me up the wall with his nit picking and fault finding. Finally I drew two conclusions - one that I would never be able to reach this goal of perfection because I always failed in one way or another, and two that if the Celestial Kingdom was going to be populated by the hypocrites I'd found in the church then they were welcome to it because I didn't want to spend eternity with them!

All the time I was not a church member I never actually doubted that Joseph Smith was a prophet or that the Book of Mormon was true. My husband and I even went to other churches trying to find somewhere where the members were 'human' like us but wherever we went they didn't believe the things we believed. They didn't believe in the pre-existence. They didn't believe God is our literal Heavenly Father and Jesus our brother. They didn't believe that those who have died without hearing the gospel are still able to hear and accept it in the spirit world. Some didn't even believe that Satan was a real individual. There was nowhere else which taught the full truth and we knew what the truth was.

We were still in touch with some church members and one day when helping out one sister we met a missionary couple who asked us which ward we belonged to. When we told them we weren't church members they looked surprised because we obviously knew and agreed with everything they believed. That was when we realised that we had left the church because of people and yet we had joined the church because of Christ.

We were re-baptised and eventually had our temple blessings restored and our children were born in the covenant. The hypocrites - well some of them are still hyprocrites, some have changed and grown spiritually, some have themselves left the church. I am no longer here because of people and I will never leave because of people. I'm here because it's true, because I know it's true and nothing anyone says or does will ever change the fact that it's true.

The only person I hurt by leaving the church was me.

I was saddened to read in a previous post of a sister who makes another sister's life a misery by her appalling attitude and actions. I'm even more saddened if I have read and understood correctly that the Branch President does not want to know about these problems because they want a spiritual branch and facing these problems reduces the spirituality. Oh how very wrong. It is not facing up to such problems which reduces the spirituality. Glossing over them and pretending they do not exist is Satan's way. The Lord's way is to face them and solve them and by doing so you grow stronger. The sister who is doing these despicable things is doing nothing for her own spirituality and needs to be helped to recognise this. I have known many people who seemed 'holier than thou' but were in fact totally lacking in humility, teachability and spirituality. It's a bit like climbing up a rameumptum and letting people see how holy you are instead of bowing your head in humility before the Lord and admitting how holy you aren't.

Don't stay in the church, or leave the church for people around you. Do it for yourself and for the Lord.

When people are rude or let's just say "imperfect" and hurtful in their behavior, it is actually an opportunity. We are here ultimately to learn to love, right? If everything were peachy all the time, would we learn? Would we move beyond our judgements of others? Would we challenge our pride and push thru to forgiveness and mercy? Would we learn to defend our boundaries with love and learn to stand for truth and righteousness? Do we learn patience and compassion by becoming disillusioned and offended? Do we look beyond the behavior into the heart of the individual and see the pain that lives there? I have heard it said that if you look back 3 generations of your enemy, he/she wouldn't be an enemy any longer. Love your enemy. It is a toughy, I know. But it IS the way.

Next time we meet someone who is nasty....maybe they are really a friend in disguise!! And opportunity to learn something. I have learned so very much about myself from my so called enemies. I have learned that if there is an individual that continues to bother me over and over...... maybe their is a lesson knocking on my door and bugging me until I learn it!!

[Misshalfway]

When people are rude or let's just say "imperfect" and hurtful in their behavior, it is actually an opportunity. We are here ultimately to learn to love, right? If everything were peachy all the time, would we learn? Would we move beyond our judgements of others? Would we challenge our pride and push thru to forgiveness and mercy? Would we learn to defend our boundaries with love and learn to stand for truth and righteousness? Do we learn patience and compassion by becoming disillusioned and offended? Do we look beyond the behavior into the heart of the individual and see the pain that lives there? I have heard it said that if you look back 3 generations of your enemy, he/she wouldn't be an enemy any longer. Love your enemy. It is a toughy, I know. But it IS the way.

Next time we meet someone who is nasty....maybe they are really a friend in disguise!! And opportunity to learn something. I have learned so very much about myself from my so called enemies. I have learned that if there is an individual that continues to bother me over and over...... maybe their is a lesson knocking on my door and bugging me until I learn it!!

PS. I have been that RS Society sister saying not so kind words about another. I have felt the bite of guilt. I have apologized. I have moved forward with new resolve to do better and be better. We are all in process!!! You may meet me on the upside or the underside of that process. I may meet you the same way. The important thing is that we know that we are all in process!!! Isn't that the invitation of forgiveness?

[Guest AutumnBreez]

Again, I thank you for your insight and perspectives.

Misshalfway: I appreciate your explanation of true devotion vs. 'going through the motions'. I guess I need to remember that there are people who choose to live this religion for their own personal convictions and not just because they were raised to do so. You are right about my parents as well. Unhappiness, as you stated, often "comes from incorrect thinking or behaving". I know neither of them blame their unhappiness on their choice to be sealed or the church. It makes me sad to think that they would stay in an unhealthy marriage because they are worried about what they won't have in the life after this. (this is by my mothers own admission, fearing the loss of that "forever family") I don't believe in a God that would deny someone happiness and peace in heaven for wanting the same on earth. (Albeit - their issues are far more complex - I hope that wouldn't be the deciding factor) Also, I thank you for assuring me that it's ok to doubt and question. I guess that is the way we learn, right? :)

AutumnBreez: your statement of "serving two masters" hit me like a ton of bricks. Of course, it is one I grew up hearing, but never really realized that that is exactly what I do. My husband is very anti-mormon. It didn't start out that way, in fact, in the beginning he had been to church with me, taken discussions, supported me going, and had no problem with our children being raised with that influence. Of course, me being inactive and not living that lifestyle gave him ammo that he used against me constantly. I have spent the bulk of our 5 year marriage on the defense, for a religion that I myself have never had a strong testimony of. He was raised very strong evangelical christian, and all we can seem to agree upon are basic morals. He is very much removed from his religious upbringing and for lack of a better word, I would consider us both theistic, or even borderline agnostic. I love him and try very hard to keep the peace with him when it comes to religion, and hear him out on pretty much everything. In the meantime, I deeply desire a personal relationship with God and want to instill in my children that same desire.

Thank you for sharing the story of your mom. I understand everyone feels a sense of obligation in one form or another. I depend on my husband financially and that is hard for me. The only thing worse in my book would be depending on him, or anyone else, for my spiritual needs. Thankfully, I still remember where my knees are :)

Malcolm: Wow. You really hit the nail on the head. This may sound backwards, but nothing would make me happier that knowing the church was not true. I could go on happily with my life, one less burden removed from my marriage, and I could be on my way to rediscovering "truth". However, I live with the fear that it could maybe possibly be true - and that I have shut it out on purpose.

I consider myself to be rational and reasonably intelligent, therefore I feel that my decisions should be based in fact and logic. I struggle with scientific evidence and historical facts. I don't think Joseph Smith was a prophet. I have never had a strong testimony of the church. I believe in God and that he desires good things for me. That's pretty much it. Haha - would it be ironic to be uncertain of the very existence of faith? (or just cynical...) What moved me most in reading these posts was your statement of who would be the one to instruct my children. All this time I spent worrying about them being indoctrinated with beliefs that are not my own, I have given them nothing. Although they are still very young, I know that it is important for me to be that influence, so I should probably bring something to the table! I have a lot to think about... and will. I thank you for your compassion and insight.

To all - thanks again...

B

Please read these. They are the same yet wording different in second.

The Lord's Side - Joseph B. Wirthlin

Living on the Lord's Side of the Line - Sheri Dew

When you read these speeches I also want you to also think about the prophets of old and present. The message is clear and does NOT waver in truth. The reason for this is because the Restored gospel is as important and real, and it will not waver in its contents any more than did Adam communicate with the Lord. Prophets of old, starting with Adam made human error (except Christ) in spite of their knowledge of Him. Joseph Smith may have made error as a human but this does not exclude him from having a heart that God trusted as he did Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses etc. to bring His children back to His loving arms. Prophets of old may not have a last name attached in Bible/BOM but this also does not make Joseph less a prophet than Lehi, Nephi.....etc. Sometimes I wonder if Smith throws people off. None the less. The content of the speeches are for you to read and ponder its contents as well. (Trusting in God vs. the world- and its preconceived "intellegence" )

[Winnie G]

Church never! the people yes, I've even moved to change wards.