Mahonri Moriancumer

[Ruben]

My favorite character in scripture is Jared's brother. 
He had so much faith that he saw the finger of the Lord before he was born on earth and because of his faith the Lord could not hide from him. 
Curiously, his name does not appear in the Book of Mormon. 
In your opinion, why such anonymity? 
Has there ever been such a case in the scriptures?
 

[estradling75]

I have heard two reasons.  Both make sense to me.  Both are speculative.

Reason one.  Space.  Moroni is abridging the record. Moroni is alone, and out of resources and does not know how much time he has left.  He is using reformed Egyptian Characters in his writing.  Brother of Jared would be 2 Characters. Mahonri Moriancumer would have to be spelled phonetically which would be about 12ish (If the people I am sourcing are correct).  Given how often it is used that saving adds up.

Reason two. Documentation of the Royal Line.  The Jaredite kings come from Jared. Both Jared and the Brother of Jared in the initial setup of the kingdom  both are very important. A case could be made that the Right of Kings belongs to the Brother of Jared rather then Jared given how awesome he was.  But if the official record only names one of them (Jared) and only identify the other by the relationship to the main line (Brother of)... Then it guts competing claims of legitimacy.  You have read their history and their Kingly battles it would make total sense for some king along the way to say lets reduce the competition and alter historical record a bit.  

[zil2]

This video on Instagram (you shouldn't need the app or an account if you open the link in a web browser) from the ScripturePlus rep is really useful and has a new explanation I like.

[Vort]

My guess is that Moriancumr was known in life as "Jared's brother", and that's how he identified himself. His brother was the leader of the people, after all, and our modern Western attitude toward a name as a personal, unique identifier is probably not what most cultures through the ages have thought. Consider a landowner's heir who, upon the death of his father, becomes "Lord Fauntleroy" or "Lord Pemberley" or something like that, now being called after the land of which he has become lord. Or consider a women of ancient Rome, identified as her father's daughters by taking the feminine form of his name (Augustus' daughter was called Augusta) until she married, at which point she took her husband's name (Julius' wife was called Julia). So Moriancumr was perhaps known primarily as Jared's brother.

Note that the place name "Moriancumr" appears in the Book of Mormon (Ether 2:13). The so-called Jaredites apparently recognized Jared's brother as a mighty prophet, enough to name their dwelling place after him.

[Carborendum]

1 hour ago, Ruben said:

In your opinion, why such anonymity? 
Has there ever been such a case in the scriptures?

Another reason that hasn't been mentioned is that it was custom.  You know that many surnames are simply (name+) son.  Like Johnson, Stevenson, Williamson.  We don't really think of them as the name of the father+son.  We just think of it as a surname.  In fact, some names like Johnson, Jason, Mason, etc. they are used as given names as well as surnames.

The Book of Mormon appears to have examples like Moroni => Moronihah.  Even Mosiah is a portmanteau of "Moses+iah".  This was a common surname methodology in Israel at about the time that Lehi left Jerusalem.  It fell out of use in the Old World.  But apparently, they continued its use in the New World.

Similarly, it is apparent that some Jaredite equivalent of "X-brother" was in use at the time of the Tower of Babel.  Where "Jared" could be represented by a single glyph (like @estradling75 was saying) with another glyph meaning "brother of".  But spelling out a phonetic name would take more characters.  In Korean, it would be anywhere from 15 to 23 characters depending on how you wanted to represent it.

Edited November 26, 2024 by Carborendum

[zil2]

FWIW, here's what I related in a previous life and a different thread.  I still don't have the full source, just what this comment says:

The eBook is $15 from Amazon and $10 from Deseret Book.  No idea whether the text around the paragraph I have would explain further.

Ha!  I went to this BYU link and followed it to download this "Word Cruncher" app, and downloaded the books into said app.  I wonder what other books I can get in this app! 

And prior to my photocopy of the Mahonri paragraph, is the Moriancumer paragraph:

Quote

Concerning the meaning of the name, Moriancumer, we can offer only a brief suggestion. The first part of the name, Morian, may be related to the Aramic, Mara, which means lord or master. Or to Moreh, a teacher, the name of the place where Abraham first rested on his arrival in Canaan (Genesis 12:6). In the second part of the word, the main idea is expressed in cume, which means to stand up, or to rise (Mark 5:41). The final r is in many languages, ancient and modern, expresses the idea of being, or making. Witness such nouns as maker, doer, hunter, lover, etc., etc., in English, and their equivalents in cognate languages. If this analysis of the name, Morian-cume-r, is correct, it would mean, One who stands up for God, that is, one who speaks for, or represents the Lord. As applied to a locality, it would mean a place, a hill, a camp specially claimed for the Lord. It would express the same idea as the name, Cumorah, in which the identical grammatical elements
(vol. 6, ETHER, 2, Meaning of Name ¶1 • vol. 6 p. 69 ¶8)

And here's the paragraph about Mahonri:

Quote

The meaning of the first name, Mahonri, given to the baby by the Prophet Joseph, is not entirely unknown. We believe we are safe in analyzing it thus: Mahon-r-i. Mahon, or Mahan, means one who is the master of a great secret. When Cain had sold himself to the fallen angel, and had been instructed in the awful art of committing murder, he said, Truly I am Mahan, the master of this great secret. (See Moses, Pearl of Great Price, 5:29 and 45–49) That is the literal meaning of the term. The name given to the Brother of Jared signifies that he, too, had become the possessor of a great secret; but his secret was a revelation from God, while the secret of Cain came from the opposite source. For this is a mystery of Godliness⁴ as well as mysteries of satanic origin. The r may be an abbreviation of the nr which is one of the original languages, means (we understand) man.⁵ The i may be an abbreviation of Jah. The name, Mahonri Moriancumer, would then be, “The Master of the mystery of Jehovah, who stands up for the Lord.”

⁴ “And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.” (1 Timothy 3:16)
⁵ “Sanscrit, nala, nara, man; compare Greek anar; Latin, Nero. (Mexican Linguistics, Denison)

(vol. 6, ETHER, 2, Meaning of Name (cont.) ¶1 • vol. 6 p. 70 ¶3)

 

FWIW.

[laronius]

If the brother of Jared wrote the record himself he may have simply referred to himself as me and I and referenced his brother Jared. It's possible his name simply never got recorded. 

[Ruben]

Seems the author was not the brother of Jared... 

... The one who wrote this story was Ether, and he was a descendant of Coriantor. (Ether 1:6)

 

[mikbone]

1 hour ago, Ruben said:

Seems the author was not the brother of Jared... 

... The one who wrote this story was Ether, and he was a descendant of Coriantor. (Ether 1:6)

Ether 12:24

Ether recorded the Brother of Jared’s words.  Ether was the editor.  Mahonri was the author.

[Carborendum]

17 hours ago, zil2 said:

FWIW, here's what I related in a previous life and a different thread.  I still don't have the full source, just what this comment says:

Ha!  I went to this BYU link and followed it to download this "Word Cruncher" app, and downloaded the books into said app.  I wonder what other books I can get in this app! 

FWIW.

That almost sounds like a name-title.  I'd say a prophet represents the Lord and keeps His secrets.

Joseph Smith once said that one reason the Lord doesn't reveal His secrets is because we have the tendency to tell those secrets to others.  But Joseph said, "I can keep a secret till doomsday."

[zil2]

4 hours ago, Carborendum said:

That almost sounds like a name-title.

A lot of Hebrew names seem that way, too.

I like the idea that someone (whether MM or Ether or Moroni) left out the name of the brother of Jared as a literary foil to what was happening at the tower of Babel (that's what was in the IG video, along with other stuff and an explanation of that theory).

[Carborendum]

5 minutes ago, zil2 said:

A lot of Hebrew names seem that way, too.

Yes.  But there was a difference between Abram and Abraham, if you get my meaning.

Because MM's role was specifically what the name means, makes it seem like he had a different name before the theophany, and MM was given to him after.

5 minutes ago, zil2 said:

I like the idea that someone (whether MM or Ether or Moroni) left out the name of the brother of Jared as a literary foil to what was happening at the tower of Babel (that's what was in the IG video, along with other stuff and an explanation of that theory).

I'm not sure what you mean.  Please explain.

[zil2]

30 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I'm not sure what you mean.  Please explain.

Well, you could watch the source I linked...

On 11/26/2024 at 9:53 AM, zil2 said:

This video on Instagram (you shouldn't need the app or an account if you open the link in a web browser) from the ScripturePlus rep is really useful and has a new explanation I like.

I'm not totally comfortable copying it here, but I guess since I included the source...  This is their own transcript of the video:

Quote

It’s so strange that it’s always brother of Jared and we never get to know the main character’s name in the whole book of Ether!

From a literary perspective, I think this jarring choice to omit the character’s name is actually brilliant and here’s why.

First of all, a later, second-hand source describes that Joseph Smith may have revealed the brother’s name as Mahonri Moriancumer in 1834, but that name never shows up in the Book of Mormon itself.

Some have suggested that the reason this name was never stated in the record is because the ancient name was lost or because the book was trying to emphasize Jared’s lineage as the kingly line, not his brother’s.

And while I personally think the lineage idea is interesting, there’s an even cooler reason this might be happening.

The brother of Jared serves as the complete opposite of everything babel stands for.

If you remember, the Jaredites came from the great tower where the languages were confounded. Babel is set up as the epitome of wickedness that the Jaredites are fleeing from.

And the people of Babel sought to build a tower to forcibly reach God and make a name for themselves (Genesis 11:4)

Meanwhile, the brother of Jared has no name, yet is brought into God’s presence on Mount Shelem because of his righteousness and faith.

The brother of Jared’s language wasn’t confounded unlike the people of Babel, he conquered the oceans like their ancestor Noah, and he founded a prosperous civilization that became renowned centuries after by the Nephites, unlike the people of Babel.

Essentially, the brother of Jared accomplished everything the people of Babel sought for and more, and he did it without a famous name. He accomplished miracles and entered God’s presence through humble discipleship and faith, and so can we.

[Traveler]

On 11/26/2024 at 9:50 AM, estradling75 said:

I have heard two reasons.  Both make sense to me.  Both are speculative.

Reason one.  Space.  Moroni is abridging the record. Moroni is alone, and out of resources and does not know how much time he has left.  He is using reformed Egyptian Characters in his writing.  Brother of Jared would be 2 Characters. Mahonri Moriancumer would have to be spelled phonetically which would be about 12ish (If the people I am sourcing are correct).  Given how often it is used that saving adds up.

.......

@Ruben 

I very much agree with @estradling75's reason #1 and would add another speculative possibility.  The records (Book of Ether) were written in a different language than was spoken by the Nephites.   It is possible that there was not translation for the name and/or that Moroni could not express it in the reformed Egyptian script used on the golden plates of the Book of Mormon

 

The Traveler

[Traveler]

On 11/26/2024 at 10:14 AM, Carborendum said:

.....  But spelling out a phonetic name would take more characters.  In Korean, it would be anywhere from 15 to 23 characters depending on how you wanted to represent it.

Egyptian hieroglyphs are not phonetic like most any modern alphabet.  Though I am not an expert – I assume that reformed Egyptian would be similar.

 

The Traveler

[Carborendum]

2 minutes ago, Traveler said:

Egyptian hieroglyphs are not phonetic like most any modern alphabet.  Though I am not an expert – I assume that reformed Egyptian would be similar.

Yes and no.

For most words and concepts, glyph-based alphabets are usually one or two per concept.  Then there are also compound words.

But when writing proper nouns, they use the same glyphs in a phonetic manner.

[Vort]

19 hours ago, Ruben said:

Seems the author was not the brother of Jared... 

... The one who wrote this story was Ether, and he was a descendant of Coriantor. (Ether 1:6)

Ether, the prophet, was a descendant of Jared, the original leader. Coriantumr, the leader, was a descendant of the brother of Jared, the original prophet.

Of course, surely all of these people were descendants of all the original group members, and we must be seeing a patriarchal line to determine which are "Jaredi-tes" and which are "Brother-of-Jared-ites". But I've always, since I was a very young man, found it curious that the last leader of the Jaredites was a descendant of the first prophet of the Jaredites, and the last prophet of the Jaredites was a descendant of the first leader of the Jaredites, as if the roles had switched between the two lines.

17 hours ago, mikbone said:

Ether 12:24

Ether recorded the Brother of Jared’s words.  Ether was the editor.  Mahonri was the author.

In fact, Moroni abridged Ether's abridgment, and I know of no way to determine exactly where Ether (or Moriancumr, for that matter) leaves off and Moroni takes over, except for obvious places like Ether 12 where Moroni overtly says "Here I am". We may assume that the earliest history was recorded by Moriancumr and compiled by Ether, and likely abridged by Moroni when included in the brief summary. I think we may also safely assume that each man was guided by the same Spirit, and thus the imporant elements of the history were preserved for us.

[mikbone]

Ether edited Mahonri’s record in the Adamic language.

Moroni translated Ether’s record into Reformed Egyptian.