Alcohol

[Snow]

So I was wondering why having a beer ever so often is a bad thing?

I realize drinking alcohol is against the word of wisdom yet if I recall correctly even Jesus had wine.

Please don't tell me that wine was non-alcoholic. I'm pretty sure it was.

There are worse things I suppose... likw excessive fats and starches in the diet.

[Aelswyth]

:wub: Lol... they make caffeine free!

I can't remember the last time I was at a singles event, but I do remember they had Mountain Dew there... so I am sure it is just advised against over imbibing.. correct me if I'm wrong...

There is a HUGE difference between caffeine in soda pop and alcohol in beer... one beer can seriously impair some people's cognitive functioning... I have never known one Mt. Dew to have the same affect.

Hehe, you haven't seen me drink a Mountain Dew! I have to avoid that stuff like the plague, Pepsi and Coke, too. Ugh. Talk about a bad reaction! :)

[tiancum]

Does adding alcohol to your life made it's quality better? Can anyone show me one case where consuming alcohol saved a life, kept someone from abusing their spouse, saved a liver ...etc?

Sorry to tell ya, but Alcohol destroys.

it is, by definition, a toxin....that is why ya become inTOXICated.

I have seen many lives destroyed by it. Some close to me. I have seen good mothers sacrifice their child, lose their livers, and their marriages.

It is not healthy to ingest, not even sparingly. A few doctors said that a glass of wine at dinner is healthy, sorry that is crap, water is healthier. There are more that say it is not healthy.

[Aelswyth]

A little postscript I'd like to add here. The Church leaders aligned with the Prohibitionists, and Heber J. Grant in particular, as he struggled with alcohol himself as a youth. This is recorded in Ronald W. Walker's "Young Heber J. Grants' Years of Passage" (BYU Studies, vol.24, 1984):

http://byustudies.byu.edu/shop/pdfsrc/43.1WalkerYears.pdf (PDF)

Grant urged Church members to vote to retain Prohibition, primarily because of his own experiences with the "demon" drink. However, Utah, along with Ohio and Pennsylvania, were the states which broke the voting deadlock, ending Prohibition. I guess this is one example that contradicts the oft repeated saying that "when the leaders speak, the thinking has been done".

The thing with this is, there are people who can drink an occasional beer and be fine. There are people who can't. The "demon" is therefore not in the drink, but in the person. Some people just have what is called an "addictive personality". Heber J. Grant was obviously one of them. He became easily addicted to coffee, and then to beer. Knowing this about him, it's also probable that he experienced addictive behavior regarding other things as well. People can become addicted to almost anything if they get some kind of pay-off from it. With coffee it's the kick. With alcohol it's the fuzzying of the sharp edges. With sex, gambling and extreme sports it's the rush.

I know I have an addictive personality. I experienced it in my teens with both alcohol and sex. I drank heavily two or three nights a week between the ages of 16 and 19, and was unfaithful to both the boyfriends I had during that period (in a way that felt compulsive, like I "couldn't help it"). But I've also managed to break myself of both those addictions (years prior to discovering the Church) and for several years now have been perfectly capable of both marital fidelity and stopping at one beer. I have a strong will, and I diligently exercise it in these things. Now that I'm in the Church I don't drink, because of the temple requirements; I don't agree that beer is included in the intention of the WoW, but I abide by it anyway.

At any rate, I fully accept that the demon was not in the drink, but in me; and somehow, through sheer willpower and the promptings of the Holy Spirit, I was able to drive it out and reclaim my personal sovereignty. I believe we all have that ability, but most would rather succumb to their weakness than experience the pain of flexing the under-used muscle of their will. It may not be politically correct, but I have no doubt that ongoing addiction is a personal failing, not a victimizing "disease".

[kona0197]

Does adding alcohol to your life made it's quality better? Can anyone show me one case where consuming alcohol saved a life, kept someone from abusing their spouse, saved a liver ...etc?

Sorry to tell ya, but Alcohol destroys.

it is, by definition, a toxin....that is why ya become inTOXICated.

I have seen many lives destroyed by it. Some close to me. I have seen good mothers sacrifice their child, lose their livers, and their marriages.

It is not healthy to ingest, not even sparingly. A few doctors said that a glass of wine at dinner is healthy, sorry that is crap, water is healthier. There are more that say it is not healthy.

Hey I can tell you that for me drinking the occasional beer is relaxing. I don't get drunk. I do become more relaxed. Take your preaching somewhere else.

[a-train]

Does adding alcohol to your life made it's quality better? Can anyone show me one case where consuming alcohol saved a life, kept someone from abusing their spouse, saved a liver ...etc?

Sorry to tell ya, but Alcohol destroys.

it is, by definition, a toxin....that is why ya become inTOXICated.

I have seen many lives destroyed by it. Some close to me. I have seen good mothers sacrifice their child, lose their livers, and their marriages.

It is not healthy to ingest, not even sparingly. A few doctors said that a glass of wine at dinner is healthy, sorry that is crap, water is healthier. There are more that say it is not healthy.

Well, the LORD endorsed mild drinks of barley in verse 17 of the Word of Wisdom. Further, Joseph Smith established a bar in the Nauvoo Mansion 'to sell or give spirits of any quantity as he in his wisdom shall judge to be for the health and comfort or convenience of such travelers or other persons as shall visit his house from time to time.' (HC Vol. 6 p.111)

As Aelswyth has already pointed out, the prohibitionist emnity toward alcohol of even the slightest form was a product of early 20th Century American political rhetoric. And like that influence affected common LDS perception, the modern American aggressive consumption of meat has been embraced by much of the Church regardless of the counsel of the word of wisdom.

We must be careful that we do not adopt a Pharisaic mindset that demonizes alcohol itself and/or (more importantly) those who drink it. It would be just as out of line to take such a hardline position against meat.

-a-train

[Traveler]

Well some us can handle a drink every now and then...

One of the effects of alcohol is to limit or dull the user’s understanding of it detrimental effects. If I am ever in combat I would not even consider trusting my flank to someone with this attitude. If I was to take an airline flight I would walk away if the pilot felt he could handle the plane with a drink or two. Nor would I consider being under the knife of a surgeon with a drink under their belt. I have yet to experience someone drinking that resulted in them being smarter or making better decisions.

In general the reason G-d has commanded abstinence from alcohol it to avoid the pitfalls of those that profit from providing alcohol and to help those that have faith in G-d in becoming a free person without entrapping dependencies.

The Traveler

[kona0197]

Whatever man...

[tiancum]

We must be careful that we do not adopt a Pharisaic mindset that demonizes alcohol itself and/or (more importantly) those who drink it. It would be just as out of line to take such a hardline position against meat.

I would never demonize those who partake of it. If I communicated that, i apologize.

If i stated anything that was untrue, please, correct me. Honestly though, you will be hard pressed to find a proof that it has improved the quality of life of those who indulge in it.

What do the prophets have to say about it? They speak out...demonize it, if you will too.

"Consider the terrible effects of alcohol. Alcohol-related accidents are the leading cause of death of those under twenty-five. The physical, social, and financial effects of alcohol ruin marriages and family life. By dulling inhibitions, alcohol leads to untold numbers of crimes and moral transgressions. Alcohol is the number one addictive drug in our day.

The consumption of alcohol is increasing among youth. Targeting young audiences, advertisers portray beer and wine as joyful, socially desirable, and harmless. Producers are promoting new types of alcoholic beverages as competitors in the huge soft-drink market. Grocery and convenience stores and gas stations stock alcoholic beverages side by side with soda pop. Can Christians who are involved in this commerce be indifferent to the physical and moral effects of the alcohol from which they are making their profits?

Oaks

Nice try tho

[kona0197]

Yes alcohol has bad effects - if you get drunk...

[Heavenguard]

In general the reason G-d has commanded abstinence from alcohol it to avoid the pitfalls of those that profit from providing alcohol and to help those that have faith in G-d in becoming a free person without entrapping dependencies.

The Traveler

Are there places where God prohibits the consumption of alcohol, besides for the priests and the Nazarites?

[Moksha]

A few doctors said that a glass of wine at dinner is healthy, sorry that is crap, water is healthier. There are more that say it is not healthy.

The folks at Evian and Sierra Springs?

[MorningStar]

Oh yeah. I forgot about my uncle who went without drinking until he was an adult. He went inactive and decided to be a "social drinker" at his psychiatrist conventions, then he made it such an issue with my aunt, that led to their divorce. He started wanting it in the evenings and that was where she drew the line - No alcohol in the home. So, he said he didn't want to go to bars and he started drinking in his car. His daughter left the church too, but she is so disgusted with the choices he made. We grew up vacationing with them and things will never be the same. He made alcohol so important, it even came before his marriage.

[WANDERER]

My experiences in living within a community with an alcohol problem stuck...it was so bad that they tested blood alcohol readings in the workplace...heavy machinery and binge drinking doesn't mix well. I'm not a tee totaller, I'm not operating under the WOW, I don't care if you have a few drinks, whatever, I just find that it isn't productive so I don't drink. It's not that odd.

On the other hand, being a totally inconsistent person I also smoke. People in glass houses and all.

[WillowTheWhisp]

It has been demonstrated that alcohol slows down reaction time. However to the person who has drunk it it gives the opposite impression and therefore they feel that they are far more capable than they actually are. I watched a televised experiment where those who had drunk alcohol were compared to those who had experience sleep deprivation and those who were fully alert and had had enough sleep and not drunk alcohol. The results were interesting. Those who were fully alert had the quickest reaction time. Those who had been deprived of sleep were sluggish but also fully aware that they were. Those who had been drinking were as slow as those deprived of sleep but they felt that they were as alert as the first group who had had enough sleep and no alcohol.

This explains why a drinker will say that the odd one or two doesn't affect them, because they genuinely believe that it doesn't even though it does.

[Misshalfway]

My husband often attends work lunches where the executives will drink. It always fascinates me how much they drink and how fine they then feel about driving back to the office. And then they go out and drink during the dinner hours too. And this happens 3-4 times a week and sometimes more. How can they not be on a permanent buzz? And how is this drinking not irresponsible?

[WillowTheWhisp]

A chap I used to work with would have a drink at lunchtime and on Thursdays every week he got drunk. He played 5 a side football and considered himself fit. If they won the game he would get drunk to celebrate and if they lost he would drink to 'drown his sorrows'. He died age 47 as a direct result of liver and kidney damage due to drinking.

Someone else I know didn't believe drinking made him any less of a driver until he drove himself off the road and down a ravine - he died in hospital from his injuries. Thankfully no-one else was involved in that 'accident'.