Faith knocking experience

[Aphrodite]

What is even the point of praying? I mean, seriously, whatever is going to happen is going to happen anyway. You can pray for someone who is dying to live-but they will still die. The reason I say this is because we have had a really bad day today. It was Rob's nan's funeral, up north in the Lake District, a good 3 hour drive from our home. We had booked a hotel to stay overnight and were looking forward to having a day to ourselves the next day. About 80 miles into the trip our car broke down. The engine had competely died, we had no choice but to be towed home to Luton-missing the funeral, obviously our whole weekend was ruined, we couldnt get our money back on the hotel-and then the recovery van broke down on the. But the main thing was missing the funeral. we were so gutted we could not pay our last respects. Its been so awful.

What has made it worse, is seeing as it was a long way, Rob had prayed all week that things would go smoothly-he even went to his mums and had a special prayer specifically for the car, that all would go ok. It didnt. Everything Rob specifically prayed for the categorical opposite happened. Rob is angry-he missed his nans funeral!!! We can never get that back. God did not help us. So what was the point of praying for it?? Maybe we should just let things happen. Rob is gutted, he's already said he's not going to church on sunday and his faith has been knocked for 6. If there is a God up there, its like he was playing a nasty trick on us all day.

So what does everyone think? Leave it up to divine intervention or pray to see if that will make a difference?

[WANDERER]

Sorry. Things don't always work out the way that we want them too.

Things I've learned:

I'm into circular reasoning: my prayers are answered when my prayers are not answered, just not with the answer I wanted. I'm careful about what I pray for..I might just get it. I have no reason to be disappointed in not getting what I pray for...God may answer my prayers, but if he doesn't I am in no worse a situation than where I started from. It is always better to ask for spiritual help than an actual thing. That I cannot comprehend why God does not answer prayers that I think are most deserving. I have thought a lot about Jesus's prayer in Gethsamene...not my will but Thy will.

I'm not a whole lot of help am I.

[Guest tomk]

I think all of us have felt this way towards God at one time or another!

We have a very limited perspective, because we are not in the presence of God. Because of the Fall of Adam, we are carnal, sensual, and devilish. We use faulty logic to arrive and erroneous conclusions, and then pat ourselves on the back afterwards. It really is a crazy time down here!

The one thing I have found out about God is -- things are rarely how they seem on the outside with God. Events that seem to seriously delay or impede our progress can often be manifestations of God's love and protection.

Let me take the events you described and try to bring a little perspective to them:

About 80 miles into the trip our car broke down. The engine had competely died, we had no choice but to be towed home to Luton.

God's perspective: I need the tow truck man to meet this family that is stranded. Something they say or do, or even just their countenances, will touch his heart and prompt him to search for more meaning in his life, leading him to me. Because of this family's obedience I am able to bless them by using them to touch his life.

-missing the funeral, obviously our whole weekend was ruined

God's perspective: Missing the funeral will prompt one of their children to ask about death and God and Jesus and the Ressurrection. This will give them a chance to teach their children about some critical truths they need to be able to come unto me in faith at some future point in their lives.

-we couldnt get our money back on the hotel

God's perspective: The frustration that flows from not getting their money back will give them an oppotunity to exercise patience, tolerance and understanding.

-and then the recovery van broke down

God's perspective: Had it continued on a few more miles it would have collided with another car running a stop sign.

What has made it worse, is seeing as it was a long way, Rob had prayed all week

God's perspective: Will Rob look at these events and doubt my love for him, or will he try to see my love for him in what has happened?

So what does everyone think? Leave it up to divine intervention or pray to see if that will make a difference?

It doesn't matter what we think or believe. You have to decide if these events are signs of God's providence or signs that He does not care.

I can tell you that He does love you, and that everything you are called to pass through is for your eventual benefit, even if in the short term it "sucks":

D&C 122: 7

7 And if thou shouldst be cast into the pit [or your car breaks down] , or into the hands of murderers [or towtruck men], and the sentence of death passed upon thee [hotel refuses to refund your money]; if thou be cast into the deep [or the recovery van breaks down]; if the billowing surge conspire against thee [everything you pray for seems to go the opposite way]; if fierce winds become thine enemy; if the heavens gather blackness, and all the elements combine to hedge up the way; and above all, if the very jaws of hell shall gape open the mouth wide after thee, know thou, my son, that all these things shall give thee experience, and shall be for thy good.

I'm not making light of your situation. I hope these words, shared in love, offer you some perspective.

[Hemidakota]

Do not murmur. Not worth the negativity or hostilities build up between you and the Creator. I know it is hard not too. Remember Sariah, Lehi’s wife when she murmurs? Or perhaps, when Joseph Smith in Liberty Jail?

Now, how do you know it wasn’t divine intervention? When we pray over something to live or bless; we always want to know the FATHER’s will or ‘…or otherwise, let thine will be done.’ Some are actual trials to see what our responses would be at the end. I had been through a lot of those. I do know every year, I'm tried, tested, for at least two-three months straight. Everything just seems to fail at once. Even my wife murmured only later to regret it.

Both of my parents died and like you, I was late to pay my respect. In my father’s case, I didn’t make it in time to the hospital to say my last farewell or to give him a departure blessing. I was frustrated like you…but in the end, there was much joy when FATHER blessed me with knowing the outcome of my father.

Anything I or we can do, we are here to help.

[Flyonthewall]

I have murmured about prayer before. I got to the point to where I figured: if the Lord already knows what we need before we do, and if I pray for something that is not His will, then I will not get what I prayed for. And if I don't know what the will of the Lord is, then I have to play "20 questions" to try and match my will with His. So what is the use of Prayer. I will accept what the Lord gives me and be happy I'm not worse off.

On the flip side, I have prayed for things, and my prayers were very definately answered in no uncertain terms. So it is a matter of keeping perspective. Remember back to when you have had prayers answered, and keep the faith.

[Hemidakota]

Some are usually answered not by prayers but a daily conversation with the Savior or the FATHER. I found this very interesting.

[Elgama]

ok this is just my feelings and I do feel the way you describe sometimes - there are nights I have cried I am sure my Heavenly Father hates me.

However prayer is not a shopping list, its our way of touching base with our Heavenly Father, it should be a conversation. Its about your relationship with him not what you can get out of it. And I think its important to keep a prayer journal and note changes in you. If you don't you forget things we pray for and for all you know the things that happened today could be answers to prayers

For example our car broke down a couple of weeks ago, we live in a small village 4 miles from nearest proper bus service, and we cannot afford to replace the car. My husband was moaning why does this always happen to us, then I worked out our finances and said to him have you been praying for help to lose weight and pay our debts off - he said yes, well he is gonna have to cycle 8 miles a day and we will be saving about £250 a month which can go to paying our debts off.

Another one was my first miscarriage which if it had gone to term would have prevented my husband attending his Fathers funeral as I would not have been able to go and his immigration status made coming back to the UK without me difficult,

Or my illness I prayed for help to be calmer and more organised which it gives me along with many qualities I wouldn't have without.

-Charley

[Guest tomk]

Some are usually answered not by prayers but a daily conversation with the Savior or the FATHER. I found this very interesting.

Yes!

Christ wants us to have a real, ongoing relationship with Him! That is how the correct perspective on how He chooses to deal with us is given!

[Palerider]

You need to read a book titled...."Drawing On the Powers of Heaven"

by Grant Von Harrison........its a great book and not very expensive ....

[Adeipho]

What is even the point of praying? I mean, seriously, whatever is going to happen is going to happen anyway. You can pray for someone who is dying to live-but they will still die. The reason I say this is because we have had a really bad day today. I think this answers your question in a nut shell. You feel this way at the moment because of all the weight on your shoulder and on Rob's. Its easy to think God has forsaken you when things go bad and you dont know why or think its unfair. It was Rob's nan's funeral, up north in the Lake District, a good 3 hour drive from our home. We had booked a hotel to stay overnight and were looking forward to having a day to ourselves the next day. About 80 miles into the trip our car broke down. The engine had competely died, we had no choice but to be towed home to Luton-missing the funeral, obviously our whole weekend was ruined, we couldnt get our money back on the hotel-and then the recovery van broke down on the. But the main thing was missing the funeral. we were so gutted we could not pay our last respects. Its been so awful.

What has made it worse, is seeing as it was a long way, Rob had prayed all week that things would go smoothly-he even went to his mums and had a special prayer specifically for the car, that all would go ok. It didnt. Everything Rob specifically prayed for the categorical opposite happened. Rob is angry-he missed his nans funeral!!! We can never get that back. God did not help us. So what was the point of praying for it?? How do you know that God did not infact help you? Or maybe what happened to you is just an unhappy result of living in this mortal and often unfair sphere called life. The reason I suggest that perhaps God did help you is that how do you know that if you had not broken down, perhaps, a few more miles up the road and you'd have had an accident in which both of you were killed, or totaled your vehicle? There are many possible reasons your car broke down. Does Rob take good care of the vehicle? Was it overdue an oil change? I'm just listing possiblities. My suggestion to you is that you take a moment, allow yourself to cool, and then actually pray about this. Prayer is not about getting Heavenly Father to do things in your favor, or manipulate him into giving you something you want. Prayer is about communing with our Lord and Saivor. Perhaps this is the lesson? Pray to know and pray for his comfort and understanding in this sad trial. I know you will find what you are seeking if you will do this. Maybe we should just let things happen. Rob is gutted, he's already said he's not going to church on sunday and his faith has been knocked for 6. If there is a God up there, its like he was playing a nasty trick on us all day.

Sounds like Rob is acting slightly childish about this. When I was young if I didnt get the game to go my way or if I wasnt winning, I'd threaten to take my toys and go home. If Rob's testimony can be clobbered to death by missing this funeral, how strong was his faith to begin with? I recently lost my own grandmother. She was my favorite person in all the world. And now she is gone. But, I know the gospel, and I know the Lord's truth and his plan. I know where she is and I know that her grave is only filled with an empty shell called a body.

Rob has not missed his chance to say his "last goodbyes" He can do that ANYTIME he wants. When my grandmother died I went into my room, got onto my knees and wept as I prayed. I wept and asked Heavenly Father if he would fulfill a request for me. I asked that somehow, however he chose to do it, that I be able to get a message to my grandmother saying just how much I love her and will miss her until I see her again. I dont know if he could allow her to hear my prayer, or if he'd send another spirit to convey it to her on my behalf, or whatever....but I asked for it. And I can go to her grave and pay respects. Her body isnt going anywhere for a while.

I hope you and Rob can find peace and that you will not let one insignifigant day in your life determon your faith in the Lord. I mean, how many times has the Lord asked something important of you, and you not follow through? The difference is that the Lord has not failed you. He will never forsake us. He has a plan, and we dont always know the mind of the Lord.

So what does everyone think? Leave it up to divine intervention or pray to see if that will make a difference?

Was it not taught that Satan teaches us not to pray?

But the Lord has said through his prophets that we must pray. Take Alma 39: 17-28

17 Therefore may God grant unto you, my brethren, that ye may begin to exercise your faith unto repentance, that ye begin to call upon his holy name, that he would have mercy upon you;

18 Yea, cry unto him for mercy; for he is amighty to save.

19 Yea, humble yourselves, and continue in prayer unto him.

20 Cry unto him when ye are in your afields, yea, over all your flocks.

21 Cry unto him in your houses, yea, over all your household, both morning, mid-day, and evening.

22 Yea, cry unto him against the power of your aenemies.

23 Yea, acry unto him against the devil, who is an enemy to all righteousness.

24 Cry unto him over the crops of your fields, that ye may prosper in them.

25 Cry over the flocks of your fields, that they may increase.

26 But this is not all; ye must pour out your souls in your closets, and your secret places, and in your wilderness.

27 Yea, and when you do not cry unto the Lord, let your hearts be full, drawn out in prayer unto him continually for your welfare, and also for the welfare of those who are around you.

28 And now behold, my beloved brethren, I say unto you, do not suppose that this is all; for after ye have done all these things, if ye aturn away the needy, and the naked, and visit not the sick and afflicted, and impart of your substance, if ye have, to those who stand in need—I say unto you, if ye do not any of these things, behold, your prayer is vain, and availeth you nothing, and ye are as hypocrites who do deny the faith.

Adeipho

[Canuck Mormon]

What is even the point of praying? I mean, seriously, whatever is going to happen is going to happen anyway. You can pray for someone who is dying to live-but they will still die. The reason I say this is because we have had a really bad day today. It was Rob's nan's funeral, up north in the Lake District, a good 3 hour drive from our home. We had booked a hotel to stay overnight and were looking forward to having a day to ourselves the next day. About 80 miles into the trip our car broke down. The engine had competely died, we had no choice but to be towed home to Luton-missing the funeral, obviously our whole weekend was ruined, we couldnt get our money back on the hotel-and then the recovery van broke down on the. But the main thing was missing the funeral. we were so gutted we could not pay our last respects. Its been so awful.

What has made it worse, is seeing as it was a long way, Rob had prayed all week that things would go smoothly-he even went to his mums and had a special prayer specifically for the car, that all would go OK. It didnt. Everything Rob specifically prayed for the categorical opposite happened. Rob is angry-he missed his nans funeral!!! We can never get that back. God did not help us. So what was the point of praying for it?? Maybe we should just let things happen. Rob is gutted, he's already said he's not going to church on sunday and his faith has been knocked for 6. If there is a God up there, its like he was playing a nasty trick on us all day.

So what does everyone think? Leave it up to divine intervention or pray to see if that will make a difference?

First off, sorry to hear about your husbands nan. My wife right now is going through a similar thing, it's not as tragic as yours, but it's similar. She thinks God is out to get her as well. I'm not going to give you the standard "God has his reasons" stuff. I'm not sure what to tell you. Sorry you had a crappy weekend, and I'm sorry your husbands faith is in tatters. All I can say is hang in there. Pray that things will get better, and pray that your nan is at peace. When your car is fixed, maybe head up for a weekend and visit her and say your goodbye's with no one else there. Sometimes those can be more meaningful. Again, sorry to hear about your nan.

[MorningStar]

I don't think prayer is about asking God for stuff and expecting Him to give it to us. It's about being close to Him. Please pray and ask what you were meant to learn from this experience. There is always something.

My friends went through a wretched experience this summer. Their mom was diagnosed with cancer while one of them had 6 weeks of pregnancy left. They prayed and prayed for her to survive, but at 1 week overdue, she was told that her mother would die in three days. She had a c-section the following day, she was able to bring her baby down to another floor to see her mom, and then the funeral was 2 weeks later. Her tears flowed all over her newborn baby's head. It was terrible. No one could understand why this had to happen with such terrible timing.

While her mom was dying of cancer, her suffering urged her to finally go get this mole checked that had looked suspicious for a long time. It had abnormal cells and they had to dig out more tissue. Then she urged her sister to get a scan of her moles - really nagged her a lot. So she did and there was a melanoma on her leg caught early. She never would've had it checked had this terrible thing no happened to her mom. Her mom lived a good life - a life she loved and I know she would've gone through this experience willingly if she knew it would save her daughter's life who has a 2-year-old girl and longs to have more children.

It was a cruel experience, but God knows what He is doing. He sees everything that is going to happen.

[lilered]

I think MorningStar has the right idea. What you need to do is pray for it to be known to you what this expierence was meant to teach you.

In the biblical story of Job, everything he loved and valued was taken away. Even when in the depths of despair, Job never turned away from the Lord. Because of his consistent faith and deep humility, Job was doubly blessed.

In the scriptures, we are encouraged to endure to the end, always with hope (see 2 Ne. 31:20).

[a-train]

The purpose of prayer is not to convince God, but communicate with Him.

-a-train

[skalenfehl]

Aphrodite, I'm sorry to hear of your loss. My sister lost her husband, who used to work for me, in a tragic freak accident leaving behind three toddlers. It was difficult for us all and is especially difficult for her even now. I can't imagine what it's like, but I know Father in Heaven takes care of us in His own way. Best wishes.

[Aphrodite]

Thanks for your kind words. I know worse things have happened but its hard to think about that when ur in crap situation of your own.

Maybe Ill tell Rob to pray for sense or whatever. Unfortunately, I wont be. Yes I can think maybe we would have crashed instead thats why we broke down-but I dont,that is too ridiculous and far fetched to believe. My faith is non-existent at the moment anyway and I havent prayed for....a long long time. After this, Im not going to be starting any time soon.

I understand what you are all saying-prayer is communication with God. Well, I dont have anything to say to hiim at the moment, if he even exists atall. Yesterday has just confirmed to me I need to make my own luck. I guess it just wasnt meant to be yesterday. My in laws said the funeral was weird anyway and they dont feel like they went to one. So we are all going up later to do our own service and so we can visit the grave. So there's light at the end of the tunnel after all :)

[Elgama]

I know how you feel even though I know God exists sometimes I just don't want to speak to Him, and I am very angry with Him, however I think it was Brigham Young that said it was those times we need to get praying and not stop until the feeling lifts - I guess even prophets go through similar feelings at hard times - even the Saviour did I was thinking about this thread whilst I was reading the Gethsemane story last night. Even the Saviour did not want to have to face what He needed to face and needed help from an Angel to strengthen Him. Sometimes the Lord does not remove the situation we need to face but a combination of a prayer and journals is what gets you through it with a smile on your face. I know at times I have prayed and screamed there is nothing more in me to give and on those occasions the prayer has worked instantly and my burdens have felt lighter and things start to move to lift them completely.

When my Gran died I didn't get to go to her funeral either, my family didn't tell us until after the funeral - I have planted her favourite flowers and a tree in the garden and its Gran's spot - Richard couldn't go to his Gran's so she has fruit bushes and that is his Gran's spot.

-Charley

[Elphaba]

I think all of us have felt this way towards God at one time or another!

We have a very limited perspective, because we are not in the presence of God. Because of the Fall of Adam, we are carnal, sensual, and devilish. We use faulty logic to arrive and erroneous conclusions, and then pat ourselves on the back afterwards. It really is a crazy time down here!

The one thing I have found out about God is -- things are rarely how they seem on the outside with God. Events that seem to seriously delay or impede our progress can often be manifestations of God's love and protection.

Let me take the events you described and try to bring a little perspective to them:

About 80 miles into the trip our car broke down. The engine had competely died, we had no choice but to be towed home to Luton.

God's perspective: I need the tow truck man to meet this family that is stranded. Something they say or do, or even just their countenances, will touch his heart and prompt him to search for more meaning in his life, leading him to me. Because of this family's obedience I am able to bless them by using them to touch his life.

-missing the funeral, obviously our whole weekend was ruined

God's perspective: Missing the funeral will prompt one of their children to ask about death and God and Jesus and the Ressurrection. This will give them a chance to teach their children about some critical truths they need to be able to come unto me in faith at some future point in their lives.

-we couldnt get our money back on the hotel

God's perspective: The frustration that flows from not getting their money back will give them an oppotunity to exercise patience, tolerance and understanding.

-and then the recovery van broke down

God's perspective: Had it continued on a few more miles it would have collided with another car running a stop sign.

What has made it worse, is seeing as it was a long way, Rob had prayed all week

God's perspective: Will Rob look at these events and doubt my love for him, or will he try to see my love for him in what has happened?

So what does everyone think? Leave it up to divine intervention or pray to see if that will make a difference?

It doesn't matter what we think or believe. You have to decide if these events are signs of God's providence or signs that He does not care.

I can tell you that He does love you, and that everything you are called to pass through is for your eventual benefit, even if in the short term it "sucks":

D&C 122: 7

7 And if thou shouldst be cast into the pit [or your car breaks down] , or into the hands of murderers [or towtruck men], and the sentence of death passed upon thee [hotel refuses to refund your money]; if thou be cast into the deep [or the recovery van breaks down]; if the billowing surge conspire against thee [everything you pray for seems to go the opposite way]; if fierce winds become thine enemy; if the heavens gather blackness, and all the elements combine to hedge up the way; and above all, if the very jaws of hell shall gape open the mouth wide after thee, know thou, my son, that all these things shall give thee experience, and shall be for thy good.

I'm not making light of your situation. I hope these words, shared in love, offer you some perspective.

And then there is the likelihood that there is no god and you just had a really awful day, worse than usual!

My condolences to you and your husband. It sounds like he was especially upset at not getting to see his grandmother's funeral.

Elphaba

[Hemidakota]

So we are all going up later to do our own service and so we can visit the grave. So there's light at the end of the tunnel after all :)

Great to hear that.

[Guest Seraphim]

And then there is the likelihood that there is no god and you just had a really awful day, worse than usual!

My condolences to you and your husband. It sounds like he was especially upset at not getting to see his grandmother's funeral.

Elphaba

Elphaba: We understand you have differing beliefs. Please don't seek to weaken the faith of a member already struggling. I find it inappropriate for this board.

Seraphim

[WillowTheWhisp]

Thanks for your kind words. I know worse things have happened but its hard to think about that when ur in crap situation of your own.

Maybe Ill tell Rob to pray for sense or whatever. Unfortunately, I wont be. Yes I can think maybe we would have crashed instead thats why we broke down-but I dont,that is too ridiculous and far fetched to believe. My faith is non-existent at the moment anyway and I havent prayed for....a long long time. After this, Im not going to be starting any time soon.

I understand what you are all saying-prayer is communication with God. Well, I dont have anything to say to hiim at the moment, if he even exists atall. Yesterday has just confirmed to me I need to make my own luck. I guess it just wasnt meant to be yesterday. My in laws said the funeral was weird anyway and they dont feel like they went to one. So we are all going up later to do our own service and so we can visit the grave. So there's light at the end of the tunnel after all :)

There are two things which struck me about this post and it is possible that you may have answered your own query.

You didn't travel far from Luton before your car broke down - perhaps it was Heavenly Father's way of preventing you from having an unpleasant experience of a weird funeral and a last memory which wouldn't have done justice to the love your husband has for his grandmother. 'It just wasn't meant to be' could be translated into 'Heavenly Father felt that it wouldn't have been the best thing.'

The other thing that struck me was that you say you haven't had anything to say to God for a while - perhaps he is trying to attract your attention and asking you to talk to him. Perhaps he wants to hear from you right now about how you feel about all this so that he can comfort you and reassure you that he had your best interests at heart, as I'm sure he always does.

When you do make that journey on your own to pay your last respects it will be more meaningful to you as it won't be blighted by any 'weirdness' - this whole experience could actually be a blessing in disguise.

When my step daughter was killed in a road accident her funeral was in two halves. The first half was in Luton as she lived down that way but she was buried in Scotland. Not all of the family could make it from Luton to Scotland. We were amongst the few who did. We also went down from Lancashire where we live to Luton for the first half. Some of my experience could have been better regarding both parts but I look for Heavenly Father's hand in it and see that he sees things so differently and sees far more of the picture than we can from our limited perspective.

Don't give up on him. He always wants to hear from you.

[Maureen]

The purpose of prayer is not to convince God, but communicate with Him.

-a-train

I must agree with a-train.

There's an old saying:

God helps those you help themselves.

When I wanted to have a baby and wasn't getting pregnant, I prayed, but I still went to see an Infertility specialist.

Praying doesn't mean we leave everything for God to accomplish, we should also try to help ourselves and situation. We after all are not helpless, we have the ability to change our lives.

God is there with support.

M.

[Elphaba]

Elphaba: We understand you have differing beliefs. Please don't seek to weaken the faith of a member already struggling. I find it inappropriate for this board.

Seraphim

Seraphim,

Your suggestion that I “seek to weaken” the faith of any member in the Church is uncalled-for. I never have nor would I ever do such a thing.

In fact, I have two very good friends on this board who have recently joined the Church. I have been somewhat instrumental in the first’s decision to join, and very supportive of the second’s. When they told me their decisions, I started bawling like a baby. If you want their names, let me know, and you can ask them if I have ever sought to “weaken their faith.” You’ll find that, to the contrary, I was ecstatic for the both of them.

Additionally, almost everyone on the list already knows I am an atheist, including Aphrodite. The way you phrased your comment made it sound as if I were consciously taking advantage of the vulnerable Aphrodite to bring he to the "dark side."

Frankly, you've not only insulted me, but Aphrodite as well. She is no wilting flower unable to take care of herself. She is articulate and very assertive. She is fully aware I’m an atheist, and I’m sure she isn’t going to be swayed by me one way or another. So you have no worries about me seeking to weaken anything about Aphrodite!

The reason I posted about there being no god was not a suggestion that Aphrodite become an atheist. I understand why you wouldn’t notice, but I was responding to tom’s post where he had written numerous “maybes” as to why things had gone wrong. Others had done this as well.

Therefore, I wrote a parody to add to everyone else’s list of “maybe’s.” And that was “maybe there isn’t a god.“

Members of the church have always amazed me with their ability to ask “Why did this happen?” and then come up with 50 different reasons--many of them exactly the opposite. And the thing is, all of the could be right, and all of them could be wrong!

IMO, there is a layer of arrogance in the asking. At least that’s how it feels to me. Putting the blame, or the praise, on someone who had nothing to do with it, even if it is God, is, IMO, demeaning.

So, to me, asking someone who didn’t even exist was the joke--you could ask and ask and ask all day, but you’d still never stop asking the question, and you’d still never get the answer. It was a parody of all of the reasons “why.” Apparently a bad parody that I only I got, but a parody nonetheless.

And last, and again, I do NOT “seek to weaken the faith a member already struggling.” I never have done so and I never would.

Elphaba

[skalenfehl]

And then there is the likelihood that there is no god and you just had a really awful day, worse than usual!

Perhaps a more suitable or neutral word might have been possibility rather than likelihood.

[Alaskagain]

And then there is the likelihood that there is no god and you just had a really awful day, worse than usual!

Oh. It was a parody.

• A literary or artistic work that imitates the characteristic style of an author or a work for comic effect or ridicule.

Your goal is not to weaken but to ridicule?

While many of us hold different beliefs as to how much divine intervention takes place regarding the miniscule details of our daily lives, it seems inappropriate to mock someone who is genuinely trying to help.

Am I misinterpreting your intent?

Added: (I might be wrong. But maybe we could take this up in another thread or PM's, so as not to further derail Aphrodite's thread?)