bytor2112

Lynn Haven rules. It's been almost 20 years since I've been there. Are half the roads still dirt?

This. Nicely said.

Why would this bother you? The only possible reason would be because you don't really believe that God will be fair and just. Do you? If you believe God will be fair and just, then believe it! Stop worrying about what others are doing and worry about yourself and your own standing with God.
 
Or are you looking for an excuse to sin? Hopefully not that. But really, what do other's sins have to do with our salvation, unless we're comparing ourselves and regretting the fact that we aren't allowed to sin.
 
No one will be held guiltless who is guilty. Those who turn their noses up at righteousness will regret it. We don't judge, because we don't know -- it's between them and God. But in principle, we do know, because the scriptures are very clear on it.  The reason we use deepest Africa or China as examples is because of the likelihood that they have never heard of the gospel of Christ. Those who have heard it and reject it will be accountable.
 
That being said -- take a look at this mortal life as an example. Let's say someone found the gospel at an older age. Let's say they even had knowledge of the gospel their whole lives, but they ignored it because they wanted to indulge in other things, but then had some sort of moving experience that brought them into the fold and they became faithful and true members the rest of their lives. Now another who was raised in the gospel will be that much further along in their gospel knowlege, their relationship with Christ, their understanding, their influence on family and friends, their opportunities for service, etc., etc.  But would it be in any regard valid to deny the first the gospel because of this? "No...you can't be baptized because you spent the first half of your life golfing, drinking, and sleeping around!"
 
Really?
 
So how is it different after this life?
 
 
Where'd you get the idea that not very many will go to the other kingdoms? My understanding is and always has been that those who truly accept Christ will be in the minority.
 
 
Can you support this with anything but your own thoughts? Any scriptures that teach this? Prophetic talks? Etc?
 
Frankly though, if the worst of the worst could, indeed, turn their lives around, accept Christ, and repent of what they have done, then HALLELUJAH!! What greater cause for joy could there be than that?!! How selfish of us to regret this potential.
 
 
Your understanding of things is askew here. We have the veil in order to be tested. That veil remains in spirit prison (where those who have not accepted the gospel will be). It would make no sense for the veil to be lifted prior to our choosing to accept Christ or not. That is not the test and not how it will work.
 
When we stand before Christ on that day, and the veil is removed, and we remember all, it will be too late. That time of probation is past. The scriptures are also quite clear on this.
 
Really, you need to stop applying your mortal perspective to the justice of God. We simply do not have the perspective. God does. So trust Him. And meanwhile, you know the law. So keep it. Else wise you will be accountable.

The things of God can only be understood by the power of the Holy Spirit.......

Druid....

Druid....

Druid....

Druid....

In some ways, what you have is not a problem with doctrine or with teachings, but a problem with expectations.  I don't think it's an uncommon problem, and I think it drives feelings behind the exoduses of people who feel like the Church has lied to them about its history.  When we build up a particular idea in our mind of what historical figures were like, it can be devastating to find out that our image isn't at all realistic.
 
And once those images and expectations are entrenched in the mind, it's very hard to alleviate them.  For instance, my wife once dated a guy who is aggressively committed to adhering to every single word that comes from a member of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve because he's convinced that the Savior himself makes regular Thursday morning appearances to them.  How am I supposed to tell somebody like that about the documentation one of my friends (a historian writing a Biography of Joseph F. Smith) has put together of Joseph F. Smith stating flat out that no prophet had seen the Savior since Joseph Smith.  Or of David O. McKay telling a member that he had never seen the Lord.  I suspect his soul would be crushed to learn of those statements because it is so far removed from the vision he has created for himself.
 
The same thing tends to happen with Joseph Smith.  We talk about him and all the great things he did and kind of gloss over the less favorable ones.  That's common for us to do with people we admire.  But we also tend to mythologize historical figures.  Discovering the ugly truths that lie under the mythological veneer is unsettling.  
 
And so we enter the big debate about how much the Church should teach history and how much members should be responsible for seeking out on their own.  I find a lot of the comments I read from people who have left tend toward blaming the Church for whitewashing the history and suppressing the ugly parts.  To some extent, that is true.  But their proposed solution that all of these things should be taught in Church is a bit over-the-top.  The Church is an institution committed to teaching principles and values of eternal significance.  I have my doubts that it should be responsible for educating members about the historical nuances (and yes, sometimes failings) of its past and its past leaders.  The more moderate comments tend toward wishing the Church would more openly acknowledge that this stuff exists. 
 
Recently, they have done that with authorizing the Historical Department to publish articles about hard historical topics.  I'd like to see more of it, and, if I had my way, I'd like to see the Church encourage more peer reviewed research in Mormon History.  The solution, as my friend says, is not less information, but more information.
 
And that's really where the answer to your faith crisis is.  You need to learn more.   You can't discount a lifetime of learning based on a few weeks of reading on the internet.  And you can't discount a lifetime of feeling based on that same amount of reading.  The issues involved here are complex, and twisted, and intertangled, and every bit as messy as human nature.  Don't try to unravel it all so quickly.

The blunt fact of the matter is that having explanations give concerning these issues will not suffice in resolving doubts. There is only one sure way to knowledge of truth, and that is through the enlightenment of the Holy Ghost.
 
I'm not saying don't bother looking for apologetic reasoning behind these things. That's great. I'm saying it is insufficient. The only way you'll get past any of these issues is by turning to the Lord in prayer and fasting and humility, and carefully learning to listen to His guidance.
 
Gaining truth and knowledge is a matter of being given light. It is impossible to see clearly without light. And light comes to us from God and from the Spirit, not just from study. Looking closer doesn't work if we're in the dark. We must have light to see.
 
I recommend doing some scripture study on light and truth; Start with, for example:
 
Alma 19:6, D&C 88:11-13, 1 Jn 1:5-7, D&C 84:45, John 8:12, Luke 11:34, 3 Nephi 13:22, John 12:35-36, 1 John 1:5, John 11:9-10, D&C 93:26,
 
Particularly:
 
D&C 93:28-40
 
"28 He that keepeth his commandments receiveth truth and light, until he is glorified in truth and knoweth all things.
 
...
 
"31 Behold, here is the agency of man, and here is the condemnation of man; because that which was from the beginning is plainly manifest unto them, and they receive not the light.
 
"32 And every man whose spirit receiveth not the light is under condemnation.
 
...
 
"36 The glory of God is intelligence, or, in other words, light and truth.
 
"37 Light and truth forsake that evil one.
 
...
 
"39 And that wicked one cometh and taketh away light and truth, through disobedience, from the children of men, and because of the tradition of their fathers.
 
Note how we receive light and truth. It's not just by study. It is by keeping the commandments.
 
So, yeah...seek and learn and get explanations and all that. But your real objective is to get more light and truth, which comes through obedience to God's commandments (including prayer, scripture study, fasting, service, etc.) and having an eye single to His glory.

Here's my breakdown:
S&W M&P 9 with night sights
S&W M&P 9c with night sights
S&W M&P Shield 9 with night sights
CZ 75 PCR "comfy" 9mm
Walther PK380 (my wife's carry gun)
Robinson XCR L with red dot
Mossberg 500 Tactical

I have a few......Sig Saur 9mm.....Ruger .357....Taurus .357......Harrington and Richardson  12 guage shotgun.....Marlin 22 rifle....Crossman Airrifle. 

The things of God can only be understood by the power of the Holy Spirit.......

This song is praising God, for giving us Joseph to restore the gospel...it is all about praise to God. Heck, if Peter, or Paul came back and restored the gospel we would sing about it. Also remember that W.W. Phelps, a close friend of Joseph wrote this song, because he betrayed Joseph and was let back into the fold by him. Both men loved each other deeply...this is why Joseph was so hurt by Phelps actions and Phelps was so beholding to Joseph, and why he wrote this song.

Wow.
I have friends who have been wildly successful as musicians for more than fifty years. Whenever they are asked to share that talent in church, they do so with grace, humility and joy and would NEVER whine that they should be paid. Nor would they make such un-Christlike statements as your last sentence.
It is far more moving to be lifted up in music by an "unskilled" musician than by someone who may have some measure of technical proficiency but who has no heart for the music.

Your comments are so arrogant....are you a Latter Day Saint? We have wonderfully spiritual music and it is so because of the Holy Spirit that is invited and NOT because of your alleged organ playing prowess. You should repent and find some humility....

Your comments are so arrogant....are you a Latter Day Saint? We have wonderfully spiritual music and it is so because of the Holy Spirit that is invited and NOT because of your alleged organ playing prowess. You should repent and find some humility....

RUSH!!!!

Oh my...it is a grim reminder of my life before the Holy Spirit. I could not comprehend anything beyond what i was taught the Bible declared and even that was speculative at best.
 
I am so grateful for the gift of the Holy Spirit by which the things of God can be understood....and in no other way can they be understood.
 
God is either revealed to us by revelation or remains forever unknown. HE cannot be understood or comprehended without the Holy Spirit by which revelation comes.

Start  here  and we can expand from there.

In a talk given to the Church Coordinating Council in 1993, Elder Boyd K. Packer identified three areas that pose a serious threat to the spiritual welfare to the members of the church. He said, “The dangers I speak of come from the gay-lesbian movement, the feminist movement (both of which are relatively new), and the ever-present challenge from the so-called scholars or intellectuals.”
 
Of all the things he could warn us about, why did he choose these three things? I believe Elder Packer was warning us about an ideology, a belief system that is incompatible with the gospel of Jesus Christ (not to mention American values). His warning has proven to be prophetic because each one of these issues (primarily feminism and gay marriage) is continually front and center in the media.
 
Because there is too much to discuss with these topics, I have divided this post into two parts. The first will cover the feminism movement and its war against gender identity and the perceived threat of the patriarchal system. The second part will continue many of the themes in this post since all of them virtually share the same values and goals.
 
Gender and the Patriarchal System
In order to understand feminism, one must understand that the cornerstone of this movement is the belief that men and women, by nature are the same, and the only reason that gender roles exist is because of “social constructs.” That is where their belief that boys like guns and girls like dolls originates, because they are taught to. This reasoning explains why men are masculine, and women tend to be feminine, not because God made us this way, but because we are socially programmed to think this way. Their stance is that since these roles are learned, they can be unlearned.
 
Feminists believe that the greatest perpetrator of these oppressive roles is the patriarchal system, where a man is the provider and protector, while the woman is the homemaker. Betty Friedan referred to the home as “a comfortable concentration camp.” “What better way to “re-educate” a generation than to do whatever is possible to destroy the traditional family?
 
Jessica Valenti, an outspoken feminist, identified this as one of their objectives in an op-ed she wrote for the Washington post; “Feminism is a social justice movement with values and goals that benefit women. It’s a structural analysis of a world that oppresses women, an ideology based on the notion that patriarchy exists and that it needs to end.” Robin Morgan, another leading feminist said, “We can’t destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage.”
 
In essence, it is the patriarchal system that they see as an obstacle to women’s liberation. Once you understand this, you can begin to see why they have such contempt for the likes of Sarah Palin and Conservative Christians, and why Betty Friedan would refer to home makers as “feeble-minded.”
 
One of the reasons that the feminist movement has been so active in the gay rights movement is that it undermines the “patriarchal system” and gender identities. What gay marriage is saying, in its essence, is that there are no gender distinctions, whether you have an actual mother and father, father and father or mother and mother, it doesn’t matter. Gay marriage only furthered the agenda of the feminists to remove any gender distinctions.
 
So important is the removal of gender distinctions to this movement that Susan Okin, an academic theorist, envisioned a time when “one’s sex would have no more relevance than one’s eye color or the length of one’s toes.” No assumptions would be made about “male and “female” roles. It would be a future in which men and women participated in more or less equal numbers in every sphere of life, from infant care to different kinds of paid work to high-level politics.”
 
If you think this is an example cherry picked from the fringe of this movement, here are but a few examples (I can provide many more);
The Vancouver public now allows student to choose gender-neutral pronouns such as, “Xe,” “Xem” and “Xyr.” California is in the process of allowing gay men to list themselves as “mother” (how adorable) on their child’s birth certificate. NPR ran a story last year, called “Young People Push Back against Gender Categories,” I quote from the report, “They refuse to be limited by notions like male and female. ‘I want you to call me Tractor and use pronouns like zee, zim and zer.” Tracker? You can’t make this stuff up. What Does This Mean For Latter-day Saints?
The Proclamation on the Family makes it clear “Gender is an essential characteristic of individual pre-mortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.” With indisputable evidence, not to mention, common sense, one has to “will” themselves to believe otherwise. In essence, Feminism is a rebellion against nature, against what is true. That is why it can be accurately called an ideology, a religion.
 
One of the worst things about this ideology is how it contaminates ones thinking. It leads a person to perceive threats where none exists. It becomes easy, almost natural to think of oneself as a victim. This may be the reason Kate Kelly perception that the church is an “institution that is fundamentally unequal, oppressive,” and demonstrates classic symptoms of a “very aggressive serial abuser.” There will come a time when we will need to make a choice of which way we face, because it is impossible to adhere to values thatare in-congruent. For this very reason, Elder Packer warned us of their danger.

From an earlier post of mine:
People leave for many reasons, not just because of some perceived quirk with LDS history. Some of the reasons I have thought of include:
1. Never feeling worthy. I have heard this often that some never feel good enough because they are surrounded by so many seemingly "perfect" people.
2. Impossible standards. Some people feel that our standards are just to difficult to live by and they will never measure up and they always feel "guilt" over their past even though they have repented.
3. Ward members are cliquish. Not enough fellowshipping and welcoming of new members.
4. No testimony. They were living off someone else's testimony....like the missionaries.
5.Feeling like the Church consumes their life. Time, etc.
6. Temple. Some have gone to the Temple and been put off....maybe they weren't really ready. They don't understand garments and the other requirements.
7. The Church system of "Judges in Israel". Some members fear their Bishops and don't really get that he is there to help.
8. Not really understanding the doctrine. They find what seems to be an easier path, "saved by grace".
9. Historical issues definitely play a big part...especially with the internet.
10. They just don't like the church and want more "entertainment" for their Sunday worship service.
11. They just don't think it's true......God wouldn't have restored his church via such a historical mess.
Just my thoughts......

Current calling: EQP
Favorite calling: Young Men's/Scout Master
Wishful calling: Ward Missionary

Addressing the penalties associated with non-violent drug crimes would be a good place to start. I am all for "hard labor" as a form of rehabilitation. Grow your own food, chain gangs etc for the violent offenders. I know prison is not a nice place currently, but, a boot camp type model with no opportunity to continue criminal activities would be optimal.