Vort

Both Edersheim and McConkie held the Traveler's opinion that the shepherds were tending temple-sheep.
 
Some additional thoughts:
 
http://askgramps.org/11162/shepherds-at-christmas
 

CaleB, how about this:

We all agree that burning the rat to death was the wrong thing to do. We all agree that it was inhumane and that the person in question shouldn't have done it.
 
However, we do not condemn the person who did this or denounce her as evil personified. Having a lot of experience with people in different situations, we understand that her actions were likely the result of panic and immaturity, and her writing an attempt to regale us with a story, not to take pleasure in brutality. Our guess is that, in ten years (or perhaps much less), she will look back on the incident with at least a bit of chagrin at having burned the poor animal to death, however scared and clueless she may have been at the time.
 
Is that sufficient? Or do you require us to join you in your full-throated condemnation of this person? Because we won't. We have enough experience to recognize a poor decision motivated by fear and immaturity rather than attributing it to evil intent. If you can't see that, then that reflects much more on you than on her.
 
Seriously, friend. Let it go. It's a sad thing, but it's long done. Far greater evils are performed many thousands of times per day in the very area you live in. Quit harping on a poor decision made by a single missionary half a year ago.

Portrait of slamjet:
 

I have posted a lot on the advice board, but realized I haven't ever really introduced myself.
I am 27, a convert, an elementary teacher, and the only member in my family. I joined the church in 2003 at the age of 16. I went to BYU for three semesters and transferred back to a school in Missouri, where I grew up and currently live.
I was inactive for a number of years, but was invited to hear a farewell talk from the youngest daughter of the family with whom I spent many FHE Mondays after joining. She and I were baptized only months apart and I have always felt a sisterly closeness to her. So I went to her talk at the beginning of October and haven't looked back yet.
I still struggle with some things, but I feel I am growing so much more spiritually now than I did when I was younger. But I am so excited to continue growing in the gospel.

Portrait of slamjet:
 

Could man be drunk for ever
    With liquor, love, or fights,
Lief should I rouse at morning
    And lief lie down of nights.
But men at whiles are sober
    And think by fits and starts,
And if they think, they fasten
    Their hands upon their hearts.
 
-A. E. Housman

I studied anti-Mormon activity for about four years, cataloged their activities, documented the networks of relationships between anti-Mormon ministries, and categorized their tactics.  I can say with a great deal of experience, that anti-Mormon web sites are dangerous, dishonest, and ill-intended.  There isn't an original thought on any of them.  All of them are using doctrinal, logical, or historical arguments which have long been discredited.  They prey on the ignorant and the uninformed.  They present their arguments in such a way that it is impossible to have a reasonable discussion.  When you begin to answer one argument, they will pivot to a different topic.  They are not interested in truth at all.  If they can damage a person's faith or implant the seeds of doubt with a 140-character tweet, they believe that is worth more than a 10,000-word study of the topic using scripture and reason.
 
Let me relate a couple of findings I encountered in my research. Although I did write some "defense of the faith" articles, my primary interest was understanding how anti-Mormonism works as a phenomenon.  I found that there is no integrity among them.  For example, I discovered one anti-Mormon ministry supposedly based in Africa was actually run by a well-known anti-Mormon "ministry" in Arizona.  They registered the address of the site to an Internet service provider in Canada to try to hide the connection.  This supposed African ex-Mormon ministry was run by a couple of white guys in America.  They were pretty hostile when I exposed that. 
 
One of my studies of another anti-Mormon web site revealed that it was run by a woman who claimed to have a Master's degree in theology.  I researched her educational credentials and proved they were from a degree mill without accreditation. (That is the case with many anti-Mormons.)  When I exposed the facts about her education, she linked up with a vicious ex-Mormon-turned-atheist on another anti-Mormon forum I monitored to share notes on how to best attack the Church.  Imagine that: an evangelical teaming up with a person who denies God's very existence to figure out the best way to attack Mormonism!  What fellowship does light have with darkness?
 
Another of the newer anti-Mormon ministries online was revealed to be soliciting donations, but it was in fact a for-profit business.  It did not have a current business licence.  It was not a legal non-profit or charity.  It was operating off an expired incorporation application with its home state.  In essence, it was an unlicensed business selling books for a profit and soliciting donations without meeting the proper state and federal tax requirements.
 
There are over 800 such ministries and parachurches that publish and re-publish the anti-Mormon lies.  Many of them are for-profit companies.  When you get to see the links between them and how they operate, you come to see that they are intentionally deceptive and insidious.  They intentionally misguide people who are uneducated in the tenets of their own faith and incite prejudice against our faith.  It's a shame they have the influence they do.
 
Stay away from these web sites.  They are nothing but cut-and-paste factories for lies and misrepresentations.  There is nothing honest, praiseworthy, or of good report in any of them.

I avoid anti-Mormon material like the plague.  The best way to combat that material online is to bear your testimony on your social networking sites or your website and blog.  If someone starts bashing you, don't argue back; simply ignore them or bear your testimony in love and patience.  That's what Jesus did.  Arguing with people doesn't normally get anyone anywhere. (And personally, arguments are one of my anxiety triggers  )

I was going to say "Fan-Freakin' Stupendous!"... but I like yours better.   :)
 
CaleB,
I believe it is of crucial importance to want more mercy and less cruelty in the world.  I personally abhor the killing or hurting (for sport or entertainment) of pretty much anything that lives and breathes with the possible exception of mosquitos and houseflys.  I honestly don't feel much guilt about swatting either of those.  Every other little creature or critter that doesn't belong in my house pretty much gets captured and carried outside.  Sometimes, rather than rescue them, and to appease my wife, I'll stomp on roaches...   .. but even they can't help what they are and, within reason, I think they deserve to live.  Another quirky thing about myself is that I'm very much opposed to Rattlesnake Round-ups.  Mormongator, I too love snakes... even..or perhaps especially the venomous ones.  Beautiful animals, very misunderstood.  I'm fortunate to have a wife that is understanding in this department and even allows me to keep a small speckled rattlesnake.  
 
 
The reason I mention these things about myself is to preface what I'm about to say:
 
Dude... you really need to pick your battles..  :) .. with a little more discrimination... 
 
Seriously, I think this one is worth letting go of.  There are so many "bigger fish to fry" than one LDS sister missionary burning a rat to death.  And though I love animals, even rats... I'm less worried about the suffering of one rat than what willful killing for sport does to the spirit of human beings.  I think the enjoyment of killing is a sort-of cancer much too prevalent in this world.  That being said, I have to agree with the assessment of most of the posters in this thread that I don't think the sister missionary is anything but immature and dealing with a pest-control situation..  I really don't think she was killing for sport... despite some of the things she said... which I chalk up to bravado or even tounge-in-cheek commentary as, for example, bytor2112.. because she knew that she'd get a reaction from various readers... perhaps laugh-along-with-sympathy for dealing with a pest-control situation...  perhaps sympathy from readers who don't especially like rats... whatever... 
 
So... take my two-cents of advice or not... Speaking out against cruelty is a good thing... I'm on your side on that one... with the proviso that it should really be about human beings becoming better and kinder first to each other and then to other species.. because we can.  If that's your main contention then I think I can fully endorse that.
 
However, if you're worried about all living things suffering in general and that we need to do away with all suffering then, I hate to break it to you, but nature is extremely callous and cruel.  Nature is kill or be killed most of the time... survival of the fittest.  How do you propose we change that?  I know we like to watch idealized portrayals of nature as the perfect balance of things etc. etc. etc..  Look at how healthy most animals are in nature.  Isn't mother-nature a great nurturer?  Hardly any weak and sick languishing.... yadda yadda yadda...
 
ahem... yes... not because Mother-nature is so "kind" ... but because the sick and weak get eaten... or are too weak to hunt and starve to death.  Or, if it's not about eating it's about sex... The toughest biggest males win and the rivals are vanquished and/or killed.  In the case of lions, if a male ousts another from his harem and there are cubs, that male will typically kill the cubs of the rival male.  The lionesses then come into estrus quicker and he breeds with them and spreads his own genetic influence.  He's the winner for as long as he can maintain his power.  When he gets too old he'll be run-off by a new rival male who will spread his genes.... Survival and perpetuation of the species... Might makes right.  The biggest, fastest, most cunning win.  That's nature.  Nature is grandly beautiful!  ... and also very harsh... 
 
so... In the real world cruelty happens all over the place.  What can we really do about that if not first working within our own species to discourage it?
 
ok... getting off my soapbox now.   

CaleB, how about this:

We all agree that burning the rat to death was the wrong thing to do. We all agree that it was inhumane and that the person in question shouldn't have done it.
 
However, we do not condemn the person who did this or denounce her as evil personified. Having a lot of experience with people in different situations, we understand that her actions were likely the result of panic and immaturity, and her writing an attempt to regale us with a story, not to take pleasure in brutality. Our guess is that, in ten years (or perhaps much less), she will look back on the incident with at least a bit of chagrin at having burned the poor animal to death, however scared and clueless she may have been at the time.
 
Is that sufficient? Or do you require us to join you in your full-throated condemnation of this person? Because we won't. We have enough experience to recognize a poor decision motivated by fear and immaturity rather than attributing it to evil intent. If you can't see that, then that reflects much more on you than on her.
 
Seriously, friend. Let it go. It's a sad thing, but it's long done. Far greater evils are performed many thousands of times per day in the very area you live in. Quit harping on a poor decision made by a single missionary half a year ago.

CaleB, how about this:

We all agree that burning the rat to death was the wrong thing to do. We all agree that it was inhumane and that the person in question shouldn't have done it.
 
However, we do not condemn the person who did this or denounce her as evil personified. Having a lot of experience with people in different situations, we understand that her actions were likely the result of panic and immaturity, and her writing an attempt to regale us with a story, not to take pleasure in brutality. Our guess is that, in ten years (or perhaps much less), she will look back on the incident with at least a bit of chagrin at having burned the poor animal to death, however scared and clueless she may have been at the time.
 
Is that sufficient? Or do you require us to join you in your full-throated condemnation of this person? Because we won't. We have enough experience to recognize a poor decision motivated by fear and immaturity rather than attributing it to evil intent. If you can't see that, then that reflects much more on you than on her.
 
Seriously, friend. Let it go. It's a sad thing, but it's long done. Far greater evils are performed many thousands of times per day in the very area you live in. Quit harping on a poor decision made by a single missionary half a year ago.

CaleB, how about this:

We all agree that burning the rat to death was the wrong thing to do. We all agree that it was inhumane and that the person in question shouldn't have done it.
 
However, we do not condemn the person who did this or denounce her as evil personified. Having a lot of experience with people in different situations, we understand that her actions were likely the result of panic and immaturity, and her writing an attempt to regale us with a story, not to take pleasure in brutality. Our guess is that, in ten years (or perhaps much less), she will look back on the incident with at least a bit of chagrin at having burned the poor animal to death, however scared and clueless she may have been at the time.
 
Is that sufficient? Or do you require us to join you in your full-throated condemnation of this person? Because we won't. We have enough experience to recognize a poor decision motivated by fear and immaturity rather than attributing it to evil intent. If you can't see that, then that reflects much more on you than on her.
 
Seriously, friend. Let it go. It's a sad thing, but it's long done. Far greater evils are performed many thousands of times per day in the very area you live in. Quit harping on a poor decision made by a single missionary half a year ago.

So sorry for your pain. This is a classic example of why software vendors generally try to say that they will not be responsible for incidental damages, only for repair or replacement of the software itself.
 
Here's a bit of good news, though. Rabies afflicts mammals and only mammals, so you can put to rest your nightmarish scenario of dentistry being performed by a rabid reptile.

That's cool, Vort. I apologise if I sounded a bit over the top, I can be quite passionate about such things.
 
And Angel, people are not supposed to just leave them on the trap. They're supposed to put out of their misery. Even if there is no consideration about the animal's suffering, then it could very well escape the trap. There is no point to starve the animal to death. In fact, I think glue traps should be outlawed. There are better traps to use, ones that at least kill the animal quickly.

CaleB, how about this:

We all agree that burning the rat to death was the wrong thing to do. We all agree that it was inhumane and that the person in question shouldn't have done it.
 
However, we do not condemn the person who did this or denounce her as evil personified. Having a lot of experience with people in different situations, we understand that her actions were likely the result of panic and immaturity, and her writing an attempt to regale us with a story, not to take pleasure in brutality. Our guess is that, in ten years (or perhaps much less), she will look back on the incident with at least a bit of chagrin at having burned the poor animal to death, however scared and clueless she may have been at the time.
 
Is that sufficient? Or do you require us to join you in your full-throated condemnation of this person? Because we won't. We have enough experience to recognize a poor decision motivated by fear and immaturity rather than attributing it to evil intent. If you can't see that, then that reflects much more on you than on her.
 
Seriously, friend. Let it go. It's a sad thing, but it's long done. Far greater evils are performed many thousands of times per day in the very area you live in. Quit harping on a poor decision made by a single missionary half a year ago.

CaleB, how about this:

We all agree that burning the rat to death was the wrong thing to do. We all agree that it was inhumane and that the person in question shouldn't have done it.
 
However, we do not condemn the person who did this or denounce her as evil personified. Having a lot of experience with people in different situations, we understand that her actions were likely the result of panic and immaturity, and her writing an attempt to regale us with a story, not to take pleasure in brutality. Our guess is that, in ten years (or perhaps much less), she will look back on the incident with at least a bit of chagrin at having burned the poor animal to death, however scared and clueless she may have been at the time.
 
Is that sufficient? Or do you require us to join you in your full-throated condemnation of this person? Because we won't. We have enough experience to recognize a poor decision motivated by fear and immaturity rather than attributing it to evil intent. If you can't see that, then that reflects much more on you than on her.
 
Seriously, friend. Let it go. It's a sad thing, but it's long done. Far greater evils are performed many thousands of times per day in the very area you live in. Quit harping on a poor decision made by a single missionary half a year ago.

No, I have a problem with self-righteous individuals who place animals above humans.  You have all of 8 posts here and 4 of those posts are about a young (19 year old) not fully mature LDS missionary young women who took 18 months out of her live to dedicate it to God and how she did something stupid.  Please, give me a break.  I'm sure if any missionary listed all the dumb things they did as a missionary you'd hate them too.  
 
Since you are so full of self-righteous indignation, I'm sure at 19 you were the epitome of sainthood, virtue and of all things holy.
 
Me . . . lacking empathy, talk about the pot calling the kettle black.  You have more empathy for a rat than your fellow-man.
 
No, I'm not arguing that it is okay to burn an animal, what I am saying is that I wasn't there and that I'm not going to make snap, quick, judgments (as you seem to be so apt to do) about what a missionary wrote on a blog (missionaries and blogs, probably another not so smart decision).
 
Personally, if you want snap quick judgement, I say you've got some axe to grind.  How in the world did you ever find out about her blog?  Since missionaries are only out 18-24 months, they can't really develop huge followers.  Google isn't going to pick up this type of blog, you've got to actively search for it.  So my snap, self-righteous judgement is that you are either a) someone who personally knows her and dislikes her or b ) someone looking for a fight with LDS members.
 
To both of those I say, grow up and learn to have a little kindness and forgiveness for your fellow man.  Yes people do stupid things and the way they went about this was stupid, but it wasn't just her, she's got a companion with her (and it sounds like there were several other sisters with her. . . .I don't see you castigating them as evil sadist individuals who either passively let it happen or were active participates).
 
This is much ado about nothing and if anything sheds more light on your personality, lack of empathy for your fellow human being, a sister.
 
Now if she's going around kicking rocks at dogs, squishing them, etc. and in general being mean to them then you might have a case.  I see a sister who had a rat problem and tried to take care of it the best way she could (and didn't do the greatest job at it).
 
End of story, too much digital memory has been wasted on this utterly pointless topic.

Christmas is a time we celebrate the birth of the Savior into the world. It is also a time that we give gifts to one another and enjoy the company of our loved ones.
 
A baptism is a time we celebrate the birth of a new soul into the kingdom of God. It is also a chance to ponder the gifts that God has given us, first and foremost the gift of the Holy Ghost, from which all other spiritual gifts spring. We also enjoy the company of our fellow Saints, and most importantly we enjoy the company and guidance of the Holy Ghost.
 
The beauty of our mortal lives lies not in DVDs or fine houses. The beauty of our lives lies entirely in the relationships we build with one another. Everything, even food and shelter, serve only to enable us to build those things. If we lose sight of that fact, we will always be miserable no matter if we live in a palace with a hundred servants at our beck and call. If we remember that fact and always act toward it, we will be the happiest of people, whatever our financial or other condition. Christmas is a time we can remember these central truths of life, and the Church is the perfect place for us to practice them.
 
Good luck with your talk. I'm sure you will do fine.

I doubt they were celebrating the immolation of a live rat. Rather, they were celebrating having figured out a way to take care of the problem.
 
I'm pretty sure we all agree that burning a rat to death is a bad thing. The difference of opinion is assigning evil thoughts or motivations to the missionary.
 
Actually, I think this is a good illustration of how fundamentally good and decent people can do horrific things, based largely on their own ignornace and fear.

My son in law is a deputy in and he recently told me a story.....he was in a 7-11 out of uniform and a man was inside the store and started kicking this machine. Not sure what it's called but it's the where you inset quarter and these trays move back and forth and you win however much change drops down. Anyway this man was playing and kicking the machine. The clerk asked this man to stop it and he did not comply. As my son in law was leaving he turned to the man and said...you need to quit kicking that machine like you were asked....the man said to my son in law....who do you think you are ?? He pulled his shirt up to his belt and showed him his badge...the guy said oh ok. Then he walked out and left.

First question, what does your IT disaster recovery policy/document state regarding that particular system, and how long it can realistically be offline for in the event of a disaster before company operations are seriously affected?
 
It sounds to me like whatever period of time is specified, it's clearly too long. Either that, or the person who set this up didn't pay any attention to it. From what you have said, it sounds to me like the company as a whole was very seriously affected by this event.
 
When a system is initially implemented and configured, disaster recovery policies and procedures should always be taken into account, and the questions of how long it should take to get this system back online in the event of any disaster, and how that process will occur should be asked. Desktop walkthroughs and real life simulations should be performed. In other words, someone in the IT department should be going through the steps that would be required to re-build such a system from scratch, or get it back online in the event that it was obliterated, and making sure that it can happen in a timely manner. This applies for both small and large companies.
 
Where are the failover systems located? Surely such a critical system isn't located on a single physical server in a cupboard? Someone in the IT department needs to be re-thinking this setup.

Snow White: I said, How do you do?
Grumpy: How do you do what?

I don't think its as outrageous as you're making it out to be. She was not actually giving a "how-to" seminar; she was relating a (for her) scary experience. I'm not sure what "burn it to death" meant, but the dead rat didn't look all that burned. Maybe it just wasn't a good picture, I don't know.
 
I agree with estradling. To me, it reads like a humorous, self-mocking account of pest control by a young woman with no experience in such things. I agree it's kind of sad, and hopefully if her future holds more rat-killing, she'll learn to dispatch the poor animals in a quicker and more humane method. But I think you're making too much of this story.

Christmas is a time we celebrate the birth of the Savior into the world. It is also a time that we give gifts to one another and enjoy the company of our loved ones.
 
A baptism is a time we celebrate the birth of a new soul into the kingdom of God. It is also a chance to ponder the gifts that God has given us, first and foremost the gift of the Holy Ghost, from which all other spiritual gifts spring. We also enjoy the company of our fellow Saints, and most importantly we enjoy the company and guidance of the Holy Ghost.
 
The beauty of our mortal lives lies not in DVDs or fine houses. The beauty of our lives lies entirely in the relationships we build with one another. Everything, even food and shelter, serve only to enable us to build those things. If we lose sight of that fact, we will always be miserable no matter if we live in a palace with a hundred servants at our beck and call. If we remember that fact and always act toward it, we will be the happiest of people, whatever our financial or other condition. Christmas is a time we can remember these central truths of life, and the Church is the perfect place for us to practice them.
 
Good luck with your talk. I'm sure you will do fine.

Yea, that's not cool. 
 
A few years ago some teens threw eggs at me as they drove past while I was standing in my neighbors driveway.  It only took me a few seconds to go get into the patrol car and pull them over and have a chat.