ryanh

I suspect both Wingnut and MOE know precisely why some don't feel comfortable with either the example, or the way it is shared or defended. The real question is actually why it is such a matter of pride for either of you? Can't it simply be taken as a lesson not to cast pearls before swine?

Completely false MoE. In fact, it is by more careful attention to your words that some determinations can be made. I read of your account of careful consideration and prayer beforehand. But, then I read of undue emphasis and reliance on retrospective consideration of experience. When I have a spiritual experience that tells me a direction to go, I neither feel a need to rely on subsequent verification (which many times may never come within this lifetime), nor to vigorously defend my position in a public forum by starting a topic surronding my experience. I'm sorry MoE if I came across as insinuating that you "couldn't have had the revelation". That was not my intent, and not at all what was in my thoughts. Nor did I think that was what I typed. I was uncomfortable that the example shared is a vanguard that is well representative of the times when such personal exceptions are received. And what I wrote was to support that general idea, and provide some ideas for thought provocation. After all, you opened the thread with "please discuss". Did you really not expect at least some ideas to be shared to be to the contrary? What use would it be if we all just said "yep, MoE said it, it must be right, let's all praise him?" I feel that in getting defensive and insinuating that people are personally jumping on you, there is a failure to perceive that: that which some people are able to observe is speaking louder than many of the words you are typing.

Yes what? What are you saying "yes" to? It wasn't a closed end question, so I'm confused what you are trying to say in saying "yes" other than to be snarky. Try removing your personal emotions from the discussion please. It really helps convey meaning much easier. And, I think you well know that it is a virtually useless argument to negate an idea by pointing to contrary examples that likely have no bearing. Can you honestly point to examples of people dying that was casued by the wearing of garments? Or are we speaking of simply in hyperbole? The castigation of my words into a narrow and unlikely interpretation is not very helpful to the discussion. Of course there is value in taking into consideration and valuing one's gift of life. Why would you make the automatic assumption that I would not feel that way? But what is most important to you Wing? Life and the preservation thereof? Or the eternal consequences of spiritual decisions? Eventually we need to reach a point that we no longer put temporal life as a 'god' before the Lord our God, and submitting out will's to His.

MoE, your opening example of the garments troubles me as a vanguard for the idea of revelations for personal exceptions. Just because the Lord is merciful, and will bless us beyond measure despite our various imperfections in actions and thought does not automatically justify the correctness of such actions and thought. Who is to say that because of the excess of faith it would take to wear garments despite difficulties that could accompany such a choice, would not have provided for even greater blessings and experiences, including protection in the event of unfortunate circumstances such as a capsize? I think what makes the example most uncomfortable to me is the temporal considerations seemingly trumping spiritual considerations. What does it really matter - these temporal considerations? They are but dross in the end. There is not much question that there are exception to the "general rules" that are given as counsel. Of course there are – else they would be given as absolutes, not “general”. As Elder Oaks points out in the talk that Hordak takes his signature quote from - the commandment Thou Shalt Not Kill - does have exceptions - such as being a soldier in a war and being directed by others. It seems to me though that one must be very careful in acknowledging the existence of exceptions to general counsel. Such exceptions are not common (by definition - the general counsel applies to the majority). And I doubt that many of the "exceptions" people make that are congruent with personal preferences - esp when based on temporal personal preferences - are valid revelation. I suspect they most often are simply our own justifications and good feelings. There is greater assurance there is revelation when the decision is out of harmony with our personal preferences. And I think that is where most exceptions would reside – within the realms of situations that would comprise of testing and refining. What use is there in comforting us in doing that which already gives us comfort? That is inconsistent with what I have learned are the purposes of this life.

It's been a little over a year since Pam posted President Hinckley's quote. Perhpas it was just my expectations coloring my percpetions, but it seemed that shortly thereafter the general level of kindness and respect improved in posts on lds.net. Real or not, it does seem to me that there has been creep back towards more base forms of communication. Is it just me, or has acerbic comments, and cutting witt - jabs guised as humor - been on the increase? Especially as of late? I know I'm not immune from the creep, and have found a need to check myself. Perhaps it's time for a reevaluation how we all treat our brothers and sisters. Just my $0.02 I especially note: "how we disagree is a real measure of who we are and whether we truly follow the Savior". So true! I want to be a better disciple. I want to improve how I correspond when I disagree with someone. If I offend anyone, please let me know via PM that I may know where I need to take corrective action.

I really enjoy my pre-1964 Winchester .32 Special!!! Not as easy to find ammo as the 30-30 version, but those older lever actions (not the newer revised version) are great guns! Mine belonged to my grandfather as well.

First, I don't like the misnomer "Online Dating". What is that? How does one "date" online? I have never been able to figure that out. But, I have found various sites that facilitate meeting and getting to know someone initially, then if all is right, a real date can be planned. Here are three I have tried out. eHarmony Matches are delivered a few at a time on a daily basis. Positives: - It does allow for you to specify to deliver only LDS matches. - It provides for easy initial communication. They call it Guided Communication. - There are a lot of LDS on there (at least in Utah). - The site provides the opportunity for a person to put a fair amount of information in their profile. - Matches are sorted into categories - New, Communicating, Archived, and Closed to help manage the matches. - A personality profile can be completed. - A service called "Secure Call" is offered where you can speak on the phone without revealing your phone number. Negatives: - Recommend status is not a requisite piece of information. It is hard to discern at times how faithful of an LDS member's profile is being delivered. - Guided Communication is a bit burdensome at times - if you jump right to email, you can't go back and finish the questions in Guided Communication. - I am wholly unimpressed by the functioning of the website. The idea of matching and delivery of matches is nice, but the process of implementing it could use some serious improvement. - Cost. It is quite spendy. - The management of matches in the various categories is not very user friendly. - No IM or chat capabilities. Bottom line - there are a lot of quality people in eHarmony, and the theory seems solid for finding compatible individuals. If the website was more user friendly, I'd be more inclined to recommend it. It is the ideal site for those that are concerned about online privacy, or unsure how to start up communication. Be prepared to pay a lot though. You are paying for a unique matching process, and clearly not for website functionality. LDSplanet.com Open list of all members on the site. Positives: - High number of LDS (at least in Utah). - Reasonable search features to narrow down the list of available profiles. - Users are prompted to specify their church attendance level and recommend status. Searches can filter for these parameters. - Price is reasonable. - You can limit the age ranges that can view your profile. Negatives: - Website has some strange quirks - every once in a while it will start sending emails to an individual that you are typing a message to, and deliver to them 5 incomplete messages. - Emails via the system are limited in length, and if you type up a message longer than the undefined limit, the system will simply truncate your message after you send it. - The IM function is very annoying as it forces itself on top of all other windows. - Aside from adding an individual to your "favorites" folder, there is no way to categorize or sort individuals. There is a "block" feature whereby you can hide profiles, however, I have found that the block feature is limited in the number of users it will hold. You cannot permanently hide individuals whose profile you have reviewed, and are not interested in. - The site is frequently used by scammers. - You cannot limit the geography or other parameters that can view your profile. Bottom line - LDSplanet is a free-for-all that is a reasonable way to meet other LDS individuals. Being a free-for-all, there is a lot of "junk" on there. Nigerian scammers and other email harvesters are frequently encountered. I hear from ladies frequently that a surprising proportion of the men are not what they say they are - either they are not LDS, or they are anything but temple-worthy. As a guy, I haven't had the same issues. LDSmingle.com Open list of all members on the site. Positives: - Good search features to narrow down the list of available profiles. - Users are prompted to specify their church attendance level and recommend status. Searches can filter for these parameters. - Profiles can contain a lot of information if completely filled out. Very informative, and not so restrictive as the other two sites. - A free color code personality test is offered making it easy to get a feel for a person's personality type. It is based on the Hartman personality types. - The site includes both "hide" and "block" features to allow you to hide profiles from your searches, or block an individual so they cannot see your profile. - The site appears to be much more closely monitored by administrators and often scammers are removed before they can even be reported. - Lowest price of the three sites. - Profiles can quickly and easily be marked with yes, maybe, and no in regards to your own interest. - Good email system that functions much like real email and keeps a threaded history. - IM function works well. Negatives: - So far it does not appear to have the same user base as the other sites. - I have not found settings yet that allow you to limit what ages or regions can see your profile. - Some website functionality is a little quirky. Save searches may bring up a different saved search other than was clicked on. Bottom line best value and best functionality in an open listing contact-making site.

Reader - there is only One that can give you the direction you need. I have talked to women who have been directed to stay despite the infidelity, and others who have either initially, or at a later point, been directed by Heavenly Father to leave. In the various permutations of either scenario, there have been great blessings from having sought and then followed Father's counsel, no matter how difficult. This horrible revelation that has come upon you because of another persons agency can become a great blessing, and a weakness made into a strength. Seek our Heavenly Father's direction in your choice. He knows what is best for all involved.

To have power to stay death while going through Gethsemane, and to have power to "have power to take it again" (John 10:18) - to be resurrected. Where did you come to the conclusion that His ability to resurrect was a function of His Priesthood power, rather than inherent powers of His being? I had never heard that before. I had always heard the power to resurrect Himself being a function of His being the only begotten of the Father.

It seems to me there is a lot of assumptions that He had a perfect body, or that a perfect body was necessary. I don't believe it was a body "without blemish" that was important. It was the sinless state that was the sacrifice without blemish.

If you think those are freaky, you should see cicada killer wasps. Imagine a wasp more than 2 inches long! I'm not particularly afraid of FB - unless the person I'm interacting with has an addiction to it. Then it is a very frightening thing indeed!

No one is a "nobody". You are not a "nobody". You need to see your Bishop for spiritual counsel. I don't know what the situation is like in the UK, but professional counseling sounds to be in order too. Your Bishop may have knowledge of available resources. Have you ever read Believing Christ, or Following Christ by Steven Robinson? Both books contain passages that describe people stuck in situations like yours, and how the Atonement relates. It seems to me that the understanding in those books regarding the Atonement and your worth could be of help. Go see your Bishop. Seek local help for the issues you are facing. Continue with the good changes you have made, but also look to other sources to deeping your understanding of the Gospel and how it specifically relates to you.

Seems like this would be best in a new thread, not one about chests in the R/S Women's Issues forum. Some garment styles are more like boxers where others are more like briefs. Have you tried cotton/poly bottoms of the appropriate size?

We went round and round with this argument about a year ago. This would preclude many males from casual good bye kisses, holding hands, or a requisite slow dance for their school's physical education class! That may be reasonable for some, but it is an unreasonable measure for many. I certainly don't agree with that cavalier advice. I know someone who recently had their temple recommend taken away and may not take the sacrament, and her clothes never came off. Not one button undone. What prophet has said otherwise? How about Spencer W. Kimball? How about the quote of Elder Scott quoted above by MoE?

Lindamt: I happened to hear an address by Elder Hunter from 1983 that likely is very pertinent to your situation. Parents’ Concern for Children - October 1983 General Conference

Not only that, but you couldn't get to the CK without going though that very process! We have to learn how to become like the Savior (and thereby the Father) (be ye therefore even as I). That isn't simply given to us once we die. We need to go through this life process to learn to think as God thinks. We need to practice the process, not simply hear about it. And that is why God being omniscient and knowing the future does not change anything. We still have to pass through all the things graciously allotted to us (even what we feel is "bad").

The idea of friends is a great one. One you have shared at least a couple times that I have seen. But that really is no differnt than my definition of dating. And your perspective would likely drastically change, heaven forbid, were your H to pass away, or divorce you. Life's experiences have a way of doing that. This is one area where so many can speculate, but only those that have gone through it can truly empathize and serve as a trail guide. It's a little different the second time around, when time is short, and there are kids to care for, and hanging out with 'friends' exposes the kids to at least as much, if not more trouble as dating and keeping the kids from meeting the dates. Bluntly: Expecting a person to completely put their lives on hold for an extended time is neither compassionate, nor reasonable.

I say yes! And that is perhaps why (in part) the small plates of Nephi were inserted by Mormon - to replace much of what was lost with the manuscript pages. How did Jesus know that Judas would betray him when during the last supper he prophesied of it?

How about knowing that Joseph Smith would be faithful and be able to restore the gospel as foretold? How about Nephi telling of John seeing in vision the end of times and that he would write of it? How could Nephi know that many plain and precious parts of the Stick of Judah would be lost if He didn't know precisely what individuals would do? Why would God trust Noah to begin building a ship if He didn't know whether or not Noah would follow through (should God have commanded many to build arks to hedge his bets?) How did Lehi, Nephi, and others know what would happen to the Nephites four generations after the Savior appeared in the Americas? How did God know that the people He placed on earth at that time would reject the gospel and become hardened? What about ancient scripture foretelling of a Savior coming to the earth, and that the Savior would be able to accomplish the work that was given Him to do? Or even that the people of the day would be so hardened as to crucify their own Savior despite the miracles? On, and on, and on. The scriptures and our own lives are replete with evidence of God knowing how this life will play out.

And, so what if He does know in advance? That doesn't change the need for us to experience it to grow, and to prove to ourselves that our eternal assignment is just. (I trust He knows what kingdom we will qualify for, but if He were simply to assign us to what He knows is right, would we be willing to accept that as just?) Foreknowledge doesn't mean predestiny. It doesn't really change anything.

Pam, while I feel it is good to advise waiting to date until it is right, I've always balked a little when the "one year" rule is thrown out there. There are people that won't need a full year to be in a good place to date, and there are others that will definitely need well more than a year - perhaps many years. It all depends on the circumstances and the individual's personality. Rather than a time frame, I suggest evaluating readiness based on other factors. They are not as easy to measure, but provide a more reliable indicator of readiness. Many websites out there focus on those measures other than time, so I won't try to retype them here. The single most important one in my mind is when you finally feel ok and comfortable living alone, you can know you are in a good spot to make a proper decision - not one made out of loneliness or 'neediness'. Sadly, those not mature/strong enough to avoid the rebound are those least likely to heed the advice of 1 year, or when ready. Desileigh, there was a discussion on here just over a year ago about dating with kids, and the idea of waiting until the kids were adults was discussed more fully in that thread. See: Divorced, Dating and kids My $0.02 on the idea is that it is like so much advice - applicable to some, but very poor advice to apply to all situations. There may be some parents that it is advisable for as they are not able to maintain adequate focus on their kids while dating or entering a new relationship. But for 'normal' people that continue to put their kids first no matter what goes on in life, it is good from my perspective - so long as the kids are prepared, and are ready for their parent to date. And, from my experience, it has been a blessing to my children in several ways.

.243 isn't the best choice if only buying one gun, as that is just too small to use on elk (of which you have lots in your area), or the mule deer. Even a .270 is a bit on the light side. Consider those if purchasing two rifles, otherwise, it's hard to go wrong with a .03-06. Lots of ammo and reloading availalbe for a .30-06. I'm saddened to read that some equate the sport of huting with the context of huting for sport used in quotes by various GA's. Shooting simply to kill and leave the killed animal unused is what was being referred to - not to the wise use of what quarry is taken as being contemplated by Matthew and the majority of modern hunters. Matthew, most all you need is in your local library. I learned many methods of hunting mostly from library books. Experience in the field is of course necessary, but start in the library. Then, when you get out with you employer, you will have a basis of understanding from which to draw and not pester them to death with questions or ignorance. Stay away from bows. I've hunted and taken deer with bows, and it is no easy task. Were I in a desperation situation where there was no rifle ammo availalbe, I would rather resort to snares and traps.

Congratulations SomeWife. It is heartening to hear of the breakthrough in understanding you and your husband are going through. Don't expect everything will be sunshine and roses from now on though. There will be times you two stumble and have to regroup. However, you have now experienced what it takes, and how to make it work. Keep applying the formula and adjusting as necessary, and you two can have a wonderful loving relationship. I thought of your situation when I heard the following today:

I'm well aware of that FT. But stop and think. If someone actually had a security clearance high enough within the Israeli government to know the attack was imminent, do you really think he would 1) share the information, and then 2) casually change the conversation to discussion of retirement? Come on. This is a no-brainer. Obviously pure speculation based on the source and manner it was shared. It isn't even worth being discussed in the manner it was brought up. Look at the way there are line breaks in the OP. Was this simply a copy and paste from an email, not even Teddy's friend? Teddy, I'll tell you what you should do . . . Give away all your assets, and move to the remotes of the desert and live off the land. I'll send you wire instructions to my bank account to help you in your endeavor to give away your assets.

If it is Top Secret national security information that you have obtained from an unnamed third party, the first thing you should do is post it to a nearly-anonymous public website!