ryanh

There is only so much you can actually do other than remove yourself from the situation. One thing is to focus on moving your source of self-esteem as much as possible to internally generated sources rather than externally generated sources. External feedback such as the cutting words mean less when our sense of worth are self-centric and God-centric. Has your H ever been screened for ADHD? Things you say that make me even ask that are “needs to think before he speaks”, “just keep coming”, “no one seems to believe he can be so cruel”, “must be on guard in all [you] say”. Esp that comment about speaking before thinking. It leads me to believe that he blurts out whatever first comes to mind rather than stopping to consider, ‘is that how I really feel’, ‘would that be appropriate to say’. Been there, experienced that. There are several people on these forums who’s long-term marriage woes are the direct result of spouses with untreated ADHD. Let me ask present some potential screening questions: • Does he misplace keys or other important items moreso than ‘average’? • Does he frequently speak out of turn, interrupt often, or change subject on a whim without lead-in’s? • Do ‘arguments’ go in circles or change course 17 different times within one conversation so that nothing ever gets solved? • Do you ever feel he is physically present, but mentally not-present? • Are there financial issues? Excessive spending, lack of financial planning, impulsive spending? • Is he frequently late, or even seemingly unable to be timely to appointments? • Does he have lots of shallow friends that all think he is great, but few or no close friends that truly know him well? I.e. someone everyone likes to be around, but never gets real close to. • Is staying on task in the bedroom an issue? Do little things or thoughts cause distractions from his focus on you? • Any addictions to ‘exciting’ activities? Esp pornography. • Do you often feel that your emotional conversations are never remembered? That each time you want to talk about an emotional subject you have to start over at square one? • Does he have difficulty staying on task or doing a decent job at mundane tasks such as dishes, folding laundry, balancing the checkbook, etc? • Are there any excessive hobbies that are ‘hyperfocused’ on, such as computer games, collecting, business ventures, etc? • Are there multiple unfinished projects that get started, but never completed? • What about employment history – Is he able to keep jobs long-term without being self-employed? • Is it hard to plan activities without multiple last-minute changes most every time you try to do something together? Or, are most activities last moment decisions? I know a lot of those questions are ‘normal’ activities. We all misplace our keys from time to time. The difference with ADHD is the severity, and the combination of multiple excessive factors.

You mean, like This One here on LDS.net?It's one thing to have fun with the patent differences between the genders, and how we operate so fundamentally different in some stereotypical aspects, but any time either gender is bashed as being less than the other overall, it disgusts me. Absolutely feel the same way when women as a whole are put down as 'less'. Finding humor in such jokes reflects deeply on our own issues and frustrations. Not the lest bit in reality.

Do you celebrate? Anything special to commemorate the occasion? I noted my 10th, but never did anything special. Not really planning anything for the 20th either. Too busy. Need to do grocery shopping. It is interesting to note and reflect on though. Just curious what others might do, or how they look at their anniversary.

I can't count that high. I never disclose the actual number because then people would know how crazy I am, not just assume I am crazy since I have snakes.

Where's Vort now that one of his pet topics is being discussed??? Thank you need4peace for those thoughts. I haven't seen the following manifestation of the idea as much in UT as I would see it in OR and CA. I see it some here, just not quite as obvious. I would note, that almost without fail, mothers would be praised over and over on Mother's Day. How indispensible they are, how wonderful they are (all true stuff), and generally give the impression that they simply could do no wrong. However, come Father's Day, there was more than a fair share of: "you aren't doing enough", "you need to step it up", "cast off the natural man", etc. The impression given was often that they could do no right without great effort. For many years, I dreaded attending church on Father's Day.

Very bluntly: Then you don’t really understand the nature of sin, and the role and effect of the Atonement. Not casting stones. I was there myself not too long ago. Because I was there is why I can easily see the misunderstanding. God cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance. Nothing unclean can enter His presence. So yes, the tiniest of sins is sufficient to keep you out of the Celestial Kingdom altogether. One single choice to act contrary to God's will is enough to cause permanent spiritual death. It is wholly the grace of the Savior that will allow us to enter into the Father’s presence, despite what we have done. Whether our only sins were those of omission, or whether they be scarlet. They will all be white as pure snow, IF the Savior’s Atonement is accepted and employed. The degrees of the Celestial Kingdom, or the three various kingdoms are, IMO, no so much about how badly we sinned as it is about how valiant we were in keeping our second estate. Perhaps that is in part a glass half-empty/half-full argument. Or at least it appears to be on the surface. But one perspective takes into account the true situation with the Atonement, the other is trying to rely on ourselves and prevention of doing too bad, which is a false and dangerous doctrine to allow to be seated in ourselves. It is anti-Christ – not in a malicious way, but effect of the ignorance is the same. That is my feelings, and why I think these types of debate are completely missing the mark.

O Be Wise Elder M. Russell Ballard Nov 2006 Ensign

I think all the debate about the purposes of why or when sex outside of marriage is wrong is missing the point. In my mind, the point should simply be 'God made a commandment, He knows best, so either choose to accept it, or not'. There is no debate. Degrees of severity don't matter. Sin is sin, and keeps us from blessings. To argue anything about sexual sins reflects a deficiency in the understandings of the Law of Chastity, and the covenants necessary to return to His presence. God does not give ANY law or commandment except it is for our benefit. We should all understand that the law of chastity, which is that the men and women should not engage in sexual relations except when legally and lawfully married, is for our own benefit. Whether for reproduction, marital relations, while engaged, with a prostitute, or whatever, the law is given. The law is not given to punish, make feel worthless, or degrade. It is to warn that there are consequences to not obeying a law. Debating about when and under what circumstances breaking the law is worse is looking beyond the mark! Doing so is only to our own detriment. Elder Oaks gave a talk this last Conference regarding God’s Love and Law. It is very applicable to this discussion. However:

Doesn't everyone see the hypocrisy that trying to answer the question is being judgmental when there is no righteous basis to judge?

With all the various factors, possibilities, and circumstances, I am VERY glad I will never have to make those determinations. It's best to leave these minutia to The Judge who knows and understands all.

One issue. The love of money is the root of all evil. So, as long as they guy doesn't love the money he makes, or the girl doesn't love the money he makes, all get along just fine.

Treat your ADHD. Quit making excuses about insurance, the condition being a cop-out, or whatever other excuses you are now making. You will not get this monkey off your back until you address that which handicaps you. Your situation is no different than others I know of. The ADHD is what keeps you coming back, and unable to stay on a pre-determined path. If you need the $4 per month for the generic medication, I'll pick up that cost for you. But you need to quit hiding as if it will go away on it's own. Is that blunt enough for you?

Absoutely not just you. The closer and more meaningful a person is to us, the more likely we are to be directly hurt/impacted by their actions. For me, it's a matter of how much I am hurt by the actions that impacts how hard it might be to forgive.

Kileyizzle - I read through this yesterday, but didn't comment. I haven't re-read through it this morning, but now, have a comment. Go figure. Perhaps the next time you call the Bishop try a different tact. Don't let recounting the situation become the center of conversation. Rather ask him for his counsel. Nephi, even though worthy and capable of receiving his own answers, asked his father for guidance when his father was having a tough time and not doing the best he could. 1 Nephi 16:23–24 Take lead in helping the Bishop help you as he should be doing by following the pattern Nephi exemplified. Nephi didn't recount to his father what had happened. He helped him refocus on what needs to happen to go forward, and in so doing, led Lehi to fulfill his appropriate role as head of the group.

I suppose every situation is unique. However, the witnessing of ordinances can be very powerful in bearing testimony to anyone of the truth. If there is no animosity or family difficulties, I would suggest inviting them all to celebrate with you. That is what I did, and it helped.

Divorce by Dallin H. Oaks - Ensign May 2007

This isn't just a he said / she said thing. While I wouldn't advise trying to get your 10yo son in the middle of things, he is also a witness that a judge would rely on. Get your parents, sister, or even the Bishop to pay for your son to see a counselor so the husband doesn't know about it. The counselor can 1) help him deal with that horrid thing his father did, and 2) document the validity of the experiences. I feel to be stern with you Mililani. You are clearly a good and sweet person. But it was wrong to go back in my personal opinion. Did you go back without the digital recorder I have suggested a couple times? That would be the key item to obtaining any proof - far safer than bruises or gunshots. Documenting the pornography won't do anything for you legally or protect your physically. Have you gone to see a lawyer yet? They can best advise how to document, how to get access to the bank accounts, etc, etc. This is the third (or fourth?) time I've suggested involving an attorney as they are the only ones qualified to answer these questions. I know $100 isn't enough to see an attorney. And this is just how he wants it - to keep you trapped and helpless. Borrow from family. Borrow from a ward member. Talk to the bishop. Do SOMEthing. See a domestic violence counselor about how to get an attorney without money in hand. Going back was not wise. You had power over him. You gave that power back in large part. I have no questions in my mind. You should get a lawyer, get a protective order to get him out of the house yesterday, get access to your half of the money in the account, get a support order in place so that the mortgage and food are paid by him, and then see where it goes from there. Getting those things in place doesn't absolutely mean a divorce will happen. You can still make a choice at that point. But, without doing that, you have no choice, but to wait until you are hurt, or even killed. The time to act is NOW while he is remorseful. As I suggested in a PM, cover all your tracks on the computer. If he is that paranoid and controlling, it is a good bet he checks on where you have surfed on the web.

Mililani, don't worry about what LoudMouth said. He honestly means well, and feels that sometimes it is best to try to motivate people to get out of a situation with a swift kick in the rear. Most everyone understand that an abused person is not responsible for being beaten into that position of submission. It's just a matter of differing perspectives. Thank you very much for the update. I was worried that "it" had hit the fan. And apparently it did. The cycle of remorse, contrition, and make-up is very typical. Don't buy it! It will take months to know if he is sincere or not. Again, I'll recommend the site You Are Not Crazy. In the site, there is discussion about what it will take for him to clean up his act, how he can prove it is safe for you, etc, etc. I won't try to white-wash it - it is unlikely that he can come back to where it is needed to make a marriage. And until he does, there is no point in going back as the cycle will start again. It has to be a complete change before living together again. There is a recovery center in UT County that also deals with abusers if he is serious about fixing things. Did you by chance record any of that rant like I suggested? Had you done so, you could have a protective order forcing him out of the house already. Do get a recorder if you haven't done so already. Borrow money and get a lawyer. Use the lawyer to get a protective order, move him out of the house, and force upon him a legal support order so that he has to continue paying the mortgage, groceries, gas, etc. And, I would highly suggest not interacting with him AT ALL at this time. Get your ducks in a row, get him out so you and the kids can continue to live, and then worry about discussing with him what the next steps are. KEEP the power you have over him right now, and don't start talking. That's what I'd advise.

And that is precisely why I'm not posting how I _________________________ in a hole because I'm sexy and I do what I want.

Keep your nose our of their relationship, and all will get along well. Let your son live is own life. That's the biggest issue of why MIL's are hated IMO.

I'm trying to, but there is something wrong with the system. I cannot send you a message, or even find your profile. Pam is working on it. I don't feel comfortable posting these scans in the public forum as they are of copyrighted material, and I don't want to be making them widely available for public access. Until the system is fixed, the only other thing I can think of is to send me an email. I think my profile settings allow people to send me emails.

Two resources for you that may help you sort through and identify your feelings, and help you make a sound decision. 1) http://peterfox.com.au/fidelity.html 2) Read the book - Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay In fact, I have scanned the section that deals with infidelity and the personal choice of whether a person can get past it or not. I can send you a link via pm if you wish.

Godless, I like a lot of your posts and the insight you offer. (here comes the but . . .) However, I don’t agree with your post to this topic for a number of reasons – the most obvious of which I will point out. If that was your experience, I’m sorry. That’s unfortunate. Sorry to criticize your parents, but that is bad parenting in this day and age. With the hush-hush of the 50’s and prior, that parenting style is understandable. But it is FAR from an LDS issue. It is an issue of shifting societal norms, coupled with incapable parenting. Lots of LDS are taught sex is good, however, because of its purposes (yes, plural, not just one purpose), it is to be reserved for marriage. Abnormal according to whom? What standard? Even LDS are marrying at older ages than has been ‘normal’ for the majority of human history! And you are calling LDS marriage age abnormal? The shift to later and later ages for marriages is, truthfully, what is out of the norm. And how is engaging in sex prior to being mature enough for marriage not the exact same ‘problem’ you are excoriating? It’s interesting that you would spin the topic to build upon potential negatives, but pretend that there are not equal, or I would even argue, greater negative effects from following ‘new age’ ideals.

So sorry you have to fight this. Are there other problems in the marriage? Just looking to see if there are underlying issues that could explain the willingness to cheat. (and are you sure it was him that was cheated on? or perhaps did his last one end because of his infidelity?) Not having personal experience, I offer up the best free resource I have ever run across for dealing with infidelity. http://peterfox.com.au/fidelity.html

OK, if that is the only fight you have had in a year, you two are doing great (unless everything is just being swept under the rug or something?) Show her you love her, and just drop the issue. I don't see it being a big deal either way. Use the disagreement as an opportunity to get closer by dropping it, not something that can build by holding onto it. That's my $0.02