mrmarklin

Wow! Bottom line is that the church is a social organization. If one does not feel comfortable with the other members, or leadership, one will disassociate with those people. This is only normal. But it doesn't necessarily mean that those people stop believing in the principles of the Gospel. Many Protestant religions deal with this by allowing "church" or "pastor" shopping. It's tougher being LDS because the church forces one to a geographic location. Although I've met people who ignore this.

The guy is a control freak. Leave this farce of a marriage now, and get a real partner. You deserve better. Luckily, you haven't brought any children into this "relationship".

Until relatively recently, it had never occurred to me that the pre Columbian Indians were anything other than descendants of the Lamanites. I'm now convinced that this is not so. So with regard to pre Adamic life, if the timeline of the Bible is even close to correct, it's obvious that there was death.

No need to defend anyone. She and her husband are adults and are responsible for their own lives. If anything, tell the rest of the family to Mind Their Own Business. Btw if the husband entered the country legally, there is every opportunity for him to get a green card.

Are you going to get a divorce? I know you're against it, but your statement above gives me pause. Are you that unhappy with your inter cultural marriage? I'm happy with mine. I'm glad my wife and I ignored the "counsel". I disagreed with it then and my opinion has not changed to this day. AFAIK my children have suffered no adverse consequences from our marriage as well. They're all well into adulthood. I hope yours are doing well. With the now very multicultural church that we have in 2015 I would hope that the only decision a member would have to make about his/her partner is whether or not they are good members of the church with those kind of goals in mind.

I already referred you to my post #71.Times have changed, and when this "counsel" was given they already had. The context added by another poster only makes it more appalling. I'm a Harley rider and when Harley riders are asked why we ride Harleys we reply "if I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand". Should people be careful whom they marry? Sure. But that "coursel" is really out of bounds IMNSHO. Edit. I know you love the prophets and want to defend them. I love them too. But one cannot defend the indefensible.

The atonement has no limitations. Go to church. No one expects your crises to be wiped away immediately. Simply by being there you will be able to feel more spiritual and gradually lift yourself up to a point higher than you are now, and maybe higher than ever. Socializing with reasonable members can help with all the above. There are plenty of self righteous jerks in the Church, but a lot who are not as well. Of course you know which ones to cultivate!;-)

Really?

All well and good FP. But not equivalent.

It's more than the world has gotten smaller. Over half the members no longer live in Utah-Idaho-Arizona corridor. My whole point is that context is everything in these "counsels" and that people are human and products of their upbringing and environment. So getting back to the topic, there is no equivalency whatsoever between a commandment and "counsel".

Do you really think any person of authority in the church would pronounce this in any public venue today? I married in 1971 to a very good person, while not from the US or necessarily what one perceives as "white", has ended up as a long term marriage with children etc. We'd heard of this "counsel" at the time (we were both BYU students) but luckily ignored it. We felt it was much more important that we held common church values together going forward than considerations of ethnicity.

Vort, See Post #71.

Stovepipe hat.

The real question is: in which venue was this ever appropriate? I wouldn't be married to my wife, and I venture to say that many on this forum wouldn't be married to their current spouses had they followed this "counsel" explicitly.

Very perceptive SP. I have a nephew that basically left the church at a very young age due to a lack of "socialization". Actually, it was more than a lack, it was hostility from Aaronic priesthood members.This is likely what is really happening.

We don't use the cross in the sense that Catholics do. ie. Having a piece of the true cross in a place of prominence in any of our churches and other public buildings. I've seen several of these pieces BTW. Unlike us, the Catholic churches are mostly open daily to worshipers. In that sense there are AFAIK no relics in any of our churches.

//thread.

I'm all for listening to the counsel of the General Authorities. But one must look at context: Who is the audience, where is the counsel being given, who is giving it, etc etc. There are a lot of quotations extracted from speeches at BYU for example, that really need to be taken with a grain of salt because of the specific audience to which the speech was delivered. Most GAs live in Utah in whitebread Salt Lake City and that is their life experience. When traveling, they either stay at hotels or with Stake Presidents etc. So they're not seeing the real world of where they visit. So a lot of the counsel given is from that perspective as well. Not to say much of it isn't good, but sometimes not realistic in other venues.

Exactly this.

Nothing in your post sounds like a deal breaker. You simply did not know he wasn't a match when you married. I'll come back to my old thesis: Date for at least a year before you marry someone. One needs to see and experience the "life cycle" of holidays, vacations, habits etc. Stay together at least until the kids are raised. There is a ray of hope: You do say he will clean up when asked!

Not as difficult as one would think. The steering wheel is on the right side of the vehicle, and that is a very useful reminder. I remember being apprehensive the first time I drove in England, but it was really not a problem. :)

Insanity is hereditary. You get it from your kids.

D&C Sec 42: 18 And now, behold, I speak unto the church. Thou shalt not kill; and he that kills shall not have forgiveness in this world, nor in the world to come. I think all murderers will get their comeuppance. Their forgiveness is clearly limited.

I tend to agree that the promised land(s) are the American continents. While touring the ruins of Tiwanaku in Bolivia about 10 years ago with a member of the church, that person stated that he heard that Spencer Kimball (while traveling in Boliviia) said that the events of the Book of Mormon took place in part in Bolivia. I agree that MesoAmerica is a very likely location, since they of all the native peoples had writing. I consider that fairly indicative. But then there are other problems with the location..

edit. Duplicate post