Suzie

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Suzie last won the day on September 9

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About Suzie

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    Church History Junkie

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    Female
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    Black Sheep Mormon

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  1. Suzie

    Biden's Mandate may be a tad too far

    Honestly, seeing Biden lately I'm really questioning if he will make it...
  2. Suzie

    Judgement and attributing motives

    @Fether I think your heart is in the right place. Unfortunately, mental health issues are often misunderstood and very few people have the knowledge, patience, compassion and understanding to deal with family, friends or co-workers who are struggling.
  3. Suzie

    When all the help isn't enough

    @Backroads Many families are struggling. We have to be very cautious here (in my view). We don't know the kind of jobs they had previously? They have to pay for rent/mortgage, gas, school supplies, bills, etc. Having said that, I recall you mentioned in one of your posts that you teach in a private school or maybe I misunderstood? Parents are paying for this as well? If they have to pay for private schooling plus all the other bills, it will not be enough. They will have to remove the kids from that school and send them to public school until they can afford it again.
  4. Suzie

    When all the help isn't enough

    Backroads, not sure how much information you would like to share but.. how many kids we are talking about? Both parents are receiving unemployment? Did they explicitly state they can't feed their kids? Is anyone from school assisting in any way?
  5. Pontificating about “love” by pretty much any modern entertainer, academic, and/or clinician. Given the endless procession of failed relationships most of those bozos have participated in, I can’t think of a group in the past three centuries that is less qualified to advise us on human relationships. Totally get you. I loveee that answer JAG, it's like the best thing everrrr.
  6. "lemon squeezy" Wow, you just added a new one to my list! Lemon squeezy, really? 🤐
  7. The word "like" every five seconds!!!
  8. JAG, he was the definition of evil. About your question, it was actually a common practice by the Utes. When he died, I believe a couple of women and one boy were buried alive. His horses were killed too to keep him company. It has been said he was buried with the last letter of Young in his hand.
  9. Is this a cut and paste from somewhere? No, I gathered all the information and put it together. I will edit my original post and add some of the sources (I normally do this but I have a COVID vaccine brain at the moment).
  10. Slave trade was an essential and established activity of native Indian life in Utah prior to 1847. The Utes, often traded Indian children (including their own) for goods and firearms. When Mormons arrived, they were confronted with this disturbing reality and were coerced into participation. Early members felt they didn’t have a choice in the matter, if they were not willing to do it the Utes would sell the children to the Mexican trade, torture them or kill them. However, when Mormons first arrived in Utah, Ute Chief Walkara welcome them with open arms, thinking perhaps that they would become potential customers and business partners. In 1848 New Mexico became part of the United States, and as a result, things were about to change dramatically for known Mexican traders such as Don Pedro Leon Lujan. He made a request to Brigham Young (Utah's governor and ex officio superintendent of Indian affairs) for a new license. Young refused to grant it and also, gave him a lecture about the evils of Indian slavery. Later on, Don Pedro was discovered with Indian slaves and was charged with trading with Indians without proper documentation, arrested and sent to trial. Chief Walkara was furious at this unexpected outcome because his livelihood was now being threatened by the Mormons. The Indian slave trade as previously mentioned, was an established practice long before the Mormons arrived in Utah. In 1851, the brother of Ute Chief Walkara, decided to go to Provo, confront the Mormons and force them to buy slaves. When the early members refused, he went into a rage telling them they didn’t have the right to stop Don Pedro Leon Lujan from buying children unless they were willing to do it themselves. Daniel W. Jones (Mormon pioneer and who started the first translations of the BOM into Spanish) recorded: “Several of us were present when he took one of the children by the heels and dashed his brains out on the hard ground. He then threw the body toward the Mormons and told them that if they’d had a heart, they would have purchased the child instead.” (The Other Slavery: The Uncovered Story of Indian Enslavement in America, Andres Resendez) Solomon F. Kimball stated: “The red men were not long in learning that the Saints were a tender hearted people and could not witness such scenes without sympathizing to the uttermost with those who were being tortured”. (The Effects of Spanish Slavery on the Indians of the Intermountain West, Carling Malouf & A. Arline Malouf). John Young described one of the children they were able to save: “She was the saddest little piece of humanity I have ever seen, they had shingled her head with butcher knives and fire brands. All the fleshy parts of her body, legs and arms have been hacked with knives, then fire brands had been stuck into the wounds. She was gaunt with hunger and smeared from head to foot with blood and ashes.” (Memoirs of John R. Young, Utah Pioneer, 1847) Even though Mormon pioneers opposed the practice, Brigham Young saw it as an opportunity to save them from death and starvation. He stated that these children were so emaciated that they were not able to stand upon their feet. He also mentioned that Ute Chief Walkara was in the “habit of tying them out from his camp at night, naked, and destitute of food unless it is so cold, he apprehends they would freeze to death”. (The Whites Want Everything: Indian-Mormon Relations 1847-1877 ) So he encouraged early members to buy Indian children, particularly those who were on the verge of death. Brian Q. Cannon noted that Mormons bought slaves for a variety of reasons: Some early members wanted to buy these children because they felt they needed to be “civilized” and wanted to convert them to Mormonism (and Anglo-Americanized). Child slaves soon became a vital source of labor for early settlers. They traded these children with other members or even gave them as gifts. Orson Pratt stated that “the Lord has caused us to come here for this very purpose that we might accomplish the redemption of these suffering degraded Israelites.” (Journal of Discourses Volume 9: Salvation of the House of Israel to Come Through the Gentiles). At least one of these minors, Sally Pidash Young, was indentured by Brigham Young himself. There is anecdotal evidence that suggests that these children were not always treated equally. Some were treated as children of the family and others were exploited and mistreated. They worked as servants for long hours and were not taught how to read or write. They also slept separately from the rest of the family. Brigham Young was aware of this and advocated the passage of the Act for the Relief of Indian Slaves and Prisoners of 1852 which allowed Utah residents to become guardians of Indian minors for up to 20 years. Even though it was not the ideal outcome, it provided some sort of legal protection towards these children since part of the agreement was to ensure that they were clothed "in a comfortable and becoming manner" and receive an education. Some members and historians argue whether or not the church is guilty for engaging in the Indian slave trade. The following is not to justify the activity; however, true motives of why some early Mormon settlers started to engage in the practice shouldn’t be ignored. Despite the controversy, Young himself was opposed to Indian slavery. In his address to the Utah Territorial Legislature in 1852 he stated the following: “It is unnecessary perhaps for me to indicate the true policy for Utah in regard to slavery...When human flesh is to be dealt as property; it is not consistent or compatible with the true principals of government. My own feelings are that no property can or should be recognized as existing in slaves, either Indian or African. No persons can purchase them [Indians] without their becoming as free, so far as natural rights are concerned, as persons of any color; under the present law and degraded situation of the Indian Race, so long as the practice of gambling away, selling and otherwise disposing off their children, as also sacrificing prisoners, occurs among them, it seems indeed that any transfer would be to them a relief and a benefit… This may be said to present a new feature in the traffic of human beings; it is essentially purchasing them into a freedom instead of slavery; but it is not the low, servile drudgery of Mexican slavery, to which I would doom them, not to be raised among beings scarcely superior to themselves but where they could find that considerations pertaining not only to be civilized but humane and benevolent society.” (Address to the Utah Territorial Legislature, 1852)
  11. Suzie

    Condoms are flying off the shelves in TX!

    Certainly, the existence of these exceptions does not automatically mean that God inspires all who find themselves in those scenarios to get abortions, but it does suggest to me that God might inspire some in those morally ambiguous circumstances to terminate their pregnancies. Perhaps I'm overthinking the term "inspiring". I think the Lord might understand these exceptions/circumstances and bring comfort during a very difficult decision. But other than that, I just don't see the Lord inspiring someone to do it.
  12. Suzie

    Condoms are flying off the shelves in TX!

    or like @person0 said where they cannot believe that God would ever inspire someone to get an abortion even thought the exceptions are part of the official position. Personally, I don't think the Church stating that there are possible exceptions for abortions (and they made sure to add that even in those rare exceptions it doesn't justify abortion automatically) equals to God inspiring someone to get one.
  13. Suzie

    Condoms are flying off the shelves in TX!

    @The Folk Prophet I really appreciate your response. Thought about you yesterday and I hope we can leave all of this behind. About my progressive leaning views...lol you know what? It's not THAT liberal. Copying and pasting from another thread: 😂 You guys call me "liberal" or "progressive" (a term I use often to describe my views) BUT I don't think they fit into any particular "box". For example: I believe in legal immigration and at the same time I can empathize with those who are fleeing certain countries. But not to the point where they now jump the line and leave behind those people who have been patiently waiting for years. I believe in fairness, the system is a mess and people shouldn't be waiting for decades to be reunited with family. Then, racism. I don't believe when people say minorities use the "race card" for everything. This isn't always the case, there are genuine cases of racism taking place daily and cannot and should not be ignored or automatically categorized as using the "race card". Also, people assume too many things when they see someone from another ethnicity or culture , they automatically assume the person is illegal, uneducated, they can't speak English or they are on welfare. This mindset cannot be right and I blame this to ignorance, particularly lack of exposure and traveling. The most "exotic" places people go is Hawaii! Real exposure to people of other cultures and races is needed to stop prejudice. What happened to George Floyd was horrible and yet some people chose to talk about his character rather than what was done to him and this isn't good. When the Black Lives Matter movement started, I understood the reason why because no one wanted a repeat of the 50's and 60's but things got out of control rather quickly, destroying property, hurting others, etc to the point of profiting from this and certain individuals becoming millionaires practically overnight. I also don't agree with the extent in which we engage in political correctness. It feels as though there is a new term we all have to be careful to use. I cannot keep up with them and I find myself having to explain what I mean when I'm not inclined to do so. And yet at the same time, I deeply believe in respecting every individual and I truly care how they feel and I don't wish to purposely offend anyone. I am just concerned with people losing their jobs or being accused of things they didn't mean. And don' get me started with cultural appropriation...GOOD CULTURE IS MEANT TO BE APPROPRIATED! Unless we are segregationists." Nothing to forgive, I apologize if I offended you in any way. Have a great Sabbath. Suzie.
  14. Suzie

    Why did we fight a war in Afghanistan?

    Both but I was referring to terrorist attacks in general.