EarlJibbs

I am sure Pam is all over this. Right?

Equally appropriate as being sexually arroused in the chapel, laying down on the pew? Come on now Rip. I dont beleive it should be off with their head for making out in the chapel, but I sure dont beleive it is the same as "casual lounging"

I agree with the others on this. Was there ever closure for you on this? I think I found the story (in TX). It sounds extremely intense and tramatic, especially if you were there. But I could not find anything relating to them recovering your friend. Have you been to any type of counceling for this? It may not be a bad idea. You have been through so much. Good luck. Lien on the Lord and your fellow members. Your friend that is on his mission is most likely okay. The Lord will bless him and his family for being out.

My opinion: Stick with your two options. Stay with your husband or move out. But leave the missionary out of it in any of the two options. Also my opinion, if the missionary is involved romantically, it ends in tragedy for someone. Good luck.

Magus, I am sorry that you were not prepared for real, unadulterated, unfiltered comments about the subject. I have a feeling that if you were to ask this same question in a live group setting with friends, you may feel more comfortable and less attacked. But that is why I come here, I know what my friends in a safe situation will say. But I do not know what people will say here. And I know for sure that most will simply give it to me straight.

I am with you Gwen, dont judge. I am really trying here to think of what "good intention" they may have had, but now I have a headache. I can not judge the people in this situation, they may be 100 times better than myself. But I sure can judge the situation, and I am not finding any good intention of two young single adults laying down on the pews and making out. I can only think of one intention of laying down with someone making out in the chapel... sexual gratification. Maybe you meant good justification?

I think you did okay. Not to get them in trouble, but to educate them as to how sacred the chapel is. Now I understand that outside of the states, there are chapels that also serve as the cultural hall. But in those that have their own cutlural hall, the room is always to be kept sacred. Maybe I am going to far, but would we make out in the baptismal font? We renew our sacred covenants with God in the chapel.

I have not considered pressing my own BadWolf. I dont know how diffcult that is, but I am not so sure of my skills to do something like that :) . I just want to go pay 40 or even 80 bucks for 440 rounds. But those days are in the rear view mirror I suppose.

Welcome mbsheen! I hope you enjoy it here.

I still like the idea that the Church took the lead in making and keeping downtown looking great. Let's be honest, that area was looking dumpy compared to what temple square was offering. Does anyone think that the State would have dreamed of puting anything like this in? Salt Lake is the headquarters of the Church, a tourist destination that draws millions of people to it's doors. Even if the mall is a bust and failes financially for the church, does it matter to our Heavenly Father how much resources and money is lost if it can bring people to repentance and make them covenant making people? Getting people near temple square helps many find out about the gospel. I suppose that this is less about commerce than we know.

Selling bank owned properties is what I do. Check with the County Tax department. If it has already been foreclosed on, it will say who the current owner is. It will not have a lien if it has been foreclosed already. As far as getting in contact with them, they will normally have an agent assigned. If there is no sign up, or you cannot find it on the web, then they are most likely not interested or ready to sell it yet. You do not need to have an agent to buy it. But honestly, you are not really going to save anything by not having an agent represent you. The Bank normally is not going to slash 3% if you do not have one. They simply pocket more money. On the flip side, they do not ask for more money if you do have an agent. They prefer that you do. It helps things go along smoothly. This is common in REO (Real Estate Owned) practices. I am more than happy to answer any questions you have.

So I own a World War II Russian Mosin-Nagant. About a year ago I was going to buy 400+ rounds, but instead I just purchased what I though I would need at the time. BIG MISTAKE! There was seriously boxes and boxes of the amo my rifle would take. So much that there was barely walking room in the isle at the gun store. Now... it looks like a thrift shop. I can understand 9MM and other bullets that everyone uses, but I never figured the kind I needed would be hard to find. Is everyone else seeing the same thing everywhere? I know this is wide spread, but this is my first time getting to any gun store since the whole push to ban assault weopons started. Not to mention the Gov buying up 100 years of ammo. I really underestimated this whole thing.

In no way am I attacking you, but what research have you done that was not from YouTube? Would you be kind enough to site where you have read about the finances? (that is not from the Salt Lake Tribune or other haters) Although I am unaware from what money the first business venture was used in the church, I have heard from some of those who work on the business side of the church that no tithing money is spent on business. Actually, I recall that this was talked about by one of the opostles that no tithing money was spent on City Creek. I cannot find that, but I did find one from Bishop Burton. Church Releases Plans for Downtown Salt Lake - Ensign Dec. 2006 - ensignThe reason for the center was made clear by President Hinkly. City Creek Center OpensWe need to look at the reasons that it was developed. It was not to make money, but to keep the area looking well and attractive. If Downtown continued down the path it was on, how would it draw those from around the world to temple square? How would it draw the people of this valley to be near the temple? In the end, it is easy to see where anyone is spending money and say "you are only spending a drop of what you make on humanitarian needs". What do I spend personally on humanitarian needs? At the minimum of "two meals" a month? But yet I spend how much on clothing that I could have made last longer? How much on fast food? How much on movies & Media? How much on a car payment when I could have gotten something less expensive? The list goes on. In the end, the Church puts its money into saving souls and that means humanitarian work as well. But the end goal is to "feed" people with salvation.

It is hard to convey feelings over the internet, so let me start by saying that my heart aches for you. I know someone that (is very close to me) is going through something very similar. With that said, I will put forth my "some guy on the internet" opinion. His feelings can't have just vanished. I suppose that they are still there and were very real. Is this why he wants to stay? Is everything really over? With him saying that he would rather go innactive to me raises red flags. Either way, staying where he can see her every day cant be healthy. I don't think it would be "running away" to move. No more begging... if you really feel that moving is best, demand it.

Is it suggested then that without Satan, mankind would not sin? If so, I find that hard to beleive. How many times can you honestly say that it was because of Satan you did something wrong? The mere fact that we have a body promisses us the same temptations. It would not remove carnal thoughts and desires if Satan wasn't around. Sure I think that Satan sure does push things along, but by simply removing him, doesnt remove the "Natural Man" from inside of us. That said, would we probably be a lot better? Sure. But there would still be opposition. I dont think that the plan wouldbe altered in the least.

we had problems

Thanks for the reply Jerome. I assume that you are suggesting that if a culture demands that you have a tattoo then it is okay? There may be some cultures like that, but I am not aware of any. Just because of our western culture... I am not sure how that makes it a sin. So now, to take a stance, and this is purely my opinion here, but the fact that we have been counseled not to get tattoos and multiple piercings (for ladies) and we do, that wouldn’t make it a sin. Now, when these councils were made, people had what, (other than the extreme person) maybe 1 tattoo buried under their sleeves, and maybe a few piercings in their ears? Now it is seen that you have "Sleeve" tattoos or ones on the face...etc... that can alter your life, career...etc. You have piercings that have moved to the nose, eyebrow, cheeks and sometimes all of them and more at the same time along with ones that make giant holes that you can shove your fist through in your ear. The council I believe could have been a warning for what we are now seeing in our time. To protect us against what we are seeing now. However, I think it is one of those things that we decide on either going with the council or against it. But to me, has no defining result on our eternal existence. Key word for me is council vs commandment.

So I guess that is the question, is it a sin to get a tatoo? Multiple piercings?

I couldnt find any comments quoting the most recent Ensign (feel free to correct me if I am wrong), but I think the Bretheren have addressed this issue already. It is a great article. Here is a small excerpt from it. And here is the link Equal Partnership in Marriage - Ensign Apr. 2013 - ensign ADDED NOTE: So it seems for the equality these Sisters would like, the men should be asking God and the presidency of the church to bear children, which cannot happen and is against nature. As is women getting the priesthood.

Your argument comes down to the fundamental question of why are we even here in the first place? We didnt come to this Earth for Happiness (while on Earth). Although happiness can be found, even through times of misery. We came here with eternal prospectives with a knowledge that trials and unhappiness would ensue. But we still came. Now I admit that I say these things and beleive them, but I do not feel that I have a trial in my life as hard as homosexuality, but I would hope that my testimony wouldnt change. This has nothing to do with the OPs questions. Is he a bad person = Not for us to judge, but I dont think so. Should he attempt celibecy and stay in the Church = Personally, yes, it will be worth it in the end. But everyone has to make their own path in life Should he ask to be removed from the church because of his lifestyle = I have no opinion on that. But it would imagine that it depend on being celibit

Things like this will end up dividing the church one day.

You have the support and blessing from me (randome guy on the internet). For what it is worth. My story: My wife and I dated before my mission. We even talked of Marrage. We knew we were compatable and it could work. We didnt break up before the mission, but we had an agreement. That there would be no sort of commitment for either her or myself while I was gone and that we would see how things were when I got back. I told her to date. I even encouraged some of my friends that were home to take her out. She wrote me faithfully for the entire mission. She mentioned a few dates she had gone on. And I knew who they were. There was some talk of love, but really only that she loved me. Nothing like planning a wedding. I got back, she didnt have a ring on her finger, we dated and that was that. I found out after I got back that she had been through two serious relationships. One she broke off after I got back. (After I beat him off with a stick) :) We really were best friends before I left, and that is how we stayed while I was away. I was prepared at any moment to receive a "dear John" letter. I had accepted that there could be more than one person in the entire world that I could be married to. I think she did the same. With that said, be careful, it can be a distraction. But honestly, if you are putting forth your full effort while out, the only time you really have to think about it is in your nightly prayers or on your p-day. If you have time to dwell on those thoughts enough to make you homesick or not effective, your not busy or devoted enough in my opinion. Take what you want from my experience. Leave the rest. Just know that there are a few stories that turn out okay.

The one that refused and made the fuss.... was a Mormon, according to the National news. What to beleive?

My wife and I were reading an old Ensign last night and this line from the article jumped out at me since I read your post. https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/john/7.17?lang=eng#16

I think there are a lot of us that ponder our Patriarchal blessings and suppose that the things talked about will happen fairly soon. There are so many things that I thought only applied to me as a youth, but come to find out that they can apply anytime. And others seem specific, that I have not been able to recognise being fulfilled or not. I am sorry for your trials. Do not be discouraged. Who knows when the things mentioned can come to pass. I think that we live in a way that we will be worthy of the blessings and the rest will work itself out. I wish you the best of luck.