Crypto

Interesting thing... I just got done nagging my husband who is currently on the other side of the planet such that 9am here is 9pm there, because he did not refill the chicken feed in the chicken coop.  How do I know?  He had me on video while he goes doing whatever it is he’s doing and I’m doing whatever it is I’m doing when he passed by the coop.
 
So yeah, my husband is probably wishing tech is not that so advanced.  Haha.

It is interesting.  I still bring my scriptures to church, but I also bring a tablet.  With the church not printing out manuals anymore and everything being online they've basically forced people to turn to electronics.  I prefer hardcopy to be honest.
It does allow me to understand those who do NOT bring tablets and other items and even more so when I understand that some of them cannot even afford such things.  That the church expects it of people these days in some areas is kind of a strange new formation of Mormon culture that I do not feel entirely good about.

But I don't believe Carb suggested any such thing. I got two points out of his OP:
1. Some technology is stupidificating us. I wholeheartedly agree with this, at least in the short term. When I want to go from Point A to Point B, I create a map in my head. Then I follow the map. If something interrupts my route, I reroute in my head. My oldest son -- an intelligent young man -- appears mostly devoid of the ability to map something out in his head. He is dependent on GPS. Without it, he's hard-pressed to find anything.
To be fair, the complaint of technology making us weak goes back to the dawn of time. Nibley claimed that the very acts of reading and writing were, long ago, decried as something that made people stupider, replacing their memory with marking tricks on slate or papyrus. And I think those ancients had a valid point, even if their overarching belief was wrong.
2. Technology is brittle and makes for a brittle infrastructure. I most assuredly wholeheartedly agree with this. Cascading power failures, the (admittedly overstated) threat of EMPs, server attacks, computer viruses, even the manmade creation of superbugs because people are too stupid or wicked or selfish or just plain ignorant to TAKE THEIR FREAKING MEDS UNTIL THEY'RE BETTER all witness to the brittle nature of our technological lives.
How does our planet support EIGHT BILLION PEOPLE? Answer: Petroleum. Take away petroleum, and you take away the diesel tractors that plow and plant, the petroleum-based fertilizers that cause an abundant harvest, and the petroleum-powered combines that reap the grain. You lose the trains that bring the food to the region and the trucks that transport it to the grocery stores. If the petroleum shuts completely down, two billion people (MINIMUM) die the first year. More thereafter. Petroleum is literally the lifeblood of our society. Is it any wonder that the tiny molten-salt-reactor contingent is so insistent? We have to have redundancy, and a lot of it, to safeguard our very lives. Petroleum has surely made our society, and the sudden lack of petroleum would just as surely destroy it.
Yes, our modern, failsafe world is exceedingly brittle, just waiting for one good sledge hammer strike to bring it down. Remember the foolishness of the denizens of Ammonihah.

But that’s only because we don’t have scouts anymore either... or do we?
Anyway... we just had a family reunion in my mom’s hometown in the Philippines and my great aunt was telling us stories of how she thought we’re done for as a generation because we don’t know how to cook without a kerosene stove/oven anymore (she’s a baker, best bread in the entire island).  Now, where we’re at, there are no electric stoves because it costs an arm and a leg to run it so kerosene stoves are the latest and greatest tech.  I’ve been hand washing all my clothes too.  No tech here for laundry.
And then I wasn’t able to attend Church because the closest branch is 11 km away.  That’s SEVEN miles.  That’s the same distance from my house in Florida to the mall which is a quick hop and skip away.  People jog that distance for exercise.  But nope, didn’t make it to Church because the public transportation that goes there only passes by twice a day and all the private vehicles all went to the Catholic Church.  I called the branch president on Saturday evening asking him if there are people from my side of town that go to the branch so I can hitch a ride.  He said yes... they’re already at the Church.  They walked there and slept at Church so they’re not late for fast and testimony meeting.  They commit to at least attending 1st Sunday even as they miss all other Sundays.
And there’s no address either.  I asked the branch president what’s the church address and he gave me the town name.  That’s the same thing with my cousins’ houses.  So my GPS is worthless.  There are no street names.  So, to go to Church, I’d have had to go to the town center (every town here has the town hall, the public market, and the Catholic Church forming the town center) and ask for directions.  But actually, Mormon.org has the lat/long address for the Church so I actually got to use my handy dandy GPS to map it.
Anyway, times like these I miss my tech!

It occurs to me that having (what one believes to be) "a strong abstract understanding" can be a pronounced detriment to true understanding. When we think we have that aforementioned "strong abstract understanding", we often mount our hobby horse and ride furiously.
Those with such an attitude seem often to view themselves as one of the cognoscenti, possessed of rare insight that their benighted brethren and sisters sadly lack. In such a position, it becomes easier to overlook or ignore the counsel and teachings of leaders -- even apostles -- and assume that one knows better by oneself, because of one's enlightened mind. How easy it then becomes to miss important nuggets of truth, or swallow whole camels of falsehood, because of one's pride in one's own supposed knowledge. Denver Snuffer, John Dehlin, Kate Kelly -- you know the Hall of Shame as well as I do, most or all of whom fell victim to this very thing.

What bothers me most is speculative comments. We aren’t to have speculation in a class discussion. 
An example of teaching a gospel misunderstanding is when in my son's Aaronic Priesthood quorum the instructor said that it’s okay to drink coffee as long as it’s not too hot. My son recognized that it was a false statement but I was left wondering why a member of the bishopric or another adult adviser did not correct the teaching. 

As gun policy discussions unfold in the wake of mass shooter incidents, they routinely end in three buckets. There’s the “tyranny can never happen here” bucket, which the left has mostly abdicated in the wake of Trump winning after they called (and still call) him a tyrant. There’s the “you can’t fight the army with small arms” bucket, which is increasingly unsound given our ongoing decade-and-a-half war with Afghani tribal goat herders. And there’s the “what the hell do you need an AR-15 for anyway?” bucket, which, by its very language, eschews a fundamental lack of understanding of what those people are thinking. I am not a prepper. But I know a few. Some of the ones I do know are smart. They may not be doing as deep an analysis as I present here, on a mathematical level, but the smart ones are definitely doing it at a subconscious level. If you want to understand the perspectives of others, as everyone in my opinion should strive to do, then you would do well to read to the end of this article. To get where we’re going, we will need to discuss the general framework of disaster mathematics.
 
 
 
https://medium.com/s/story/the-surprisingly-solid-mathematical-case-of-the-tin-foil-hat-gun-prepper-15fce7d10437

Doesn't someone win an online argument when more people in the thread agree with him/her than the other person?
The idea of "winning" and argument online is such a ridiculous thing. Realistically the only way to "win" is for the other person to capitulate and admit they were mistaken. How often does that happen? What typically happens, as I joked above, is that whoever gets more support by the bystanders walks away feeling smug. But no one "wins" the argument.

Depends on whether there were any trees harmed in the process.

If a man loses an online argument due to logical fallacies but does not recognize his fallacies or his loss, did he really lose?

I believe that @Carborendum and done a profoundly important thing.  That is to study scripture for deep spiritual content.  Mostly, it would seem that those that study scripture do so for doctrine – I use to think this was the primary purpose of scripture but I have come to believe otherwise.
Perhaps I am wrong but some posts seem to contain a undercurrent that G-d performs miracles to show off or as a fringe benefit for those that believe desired doctrine.  All of which play into the notion the good things only happen to good people and the reverse logic of the same - that if you are not good – bad things will happen to you.  And that what makes a person good is to believe the doctrine.  This kind of thinking sets the stage for a lot of arguing over “correct” doctrine.  A process that leads to “forever learning but never coming to an understanding of the truth”.
The story of changing water to wine at the wedding has so many “levels” of deep spiritual meaning – I believe we could counsel with one another for weeks and months about how to apply understanding to covenants (like marriage) that we enter into with both our fellow man (earthy society) as well as G-d concerning the eternal plan of salvation.  But to be honest – I believe there is (among many) a spirit of contention or desire to reduce everything to doctrine and leave our covenants with G-d out of our exchanges with one another.
So, I will ask a question concerning covenant – especially the covenant of marriage.  What do “YOU” do when you have an obligation by covenant to provide (in this case wine at a wedding – which is a covenant between a man and a wife and a community and G-d) and you run out?  It would seem to me that this is a topic (of many forms) of many a thread of this forum – now being asked again.
 
The Traveler

Chiasmus is where the idea is presented forward and then backward.  Carb discovered it by going forward and backward through the text...

That's why I stopped carrying paper to church.  Once I figured out how to make use of the linking, annotations, and tagging features (in the previous Android GUI) in my own way, I went "all in" on the electronic.  I haven't touched my paper scriptures since.  (I have to say, however, that I despise the new Android GUI because it is incapable of doing what the old version did which made teaching from it a snap.  Now I teach from paper (printouts, not manuals / scriptures).)

6 years ago seminary teachers were outlawing the use of electronic scriptures at my school. Today the church doesn’t even hand out physical copies of manuals much anymore.

I honestly don't understand. If you have raised your children with any amount of discipline, what teenager would not hand over "his" (read: your) phone when instructed?
And if they said "no", the conversation would lead to steadily worse consequences for them.
Parent: Give me your phone.
Teen: No.
Parent: I'm not asking. Give me your phone now.
Teen: No.
Parent: If you want to act like an obstinate six-year-old, you will be treated like one. You are grounded. You may not leave the house except for school. Your phone will be cut off, and you will not get it back.
Teen: That's not fair!
Parent: That is how we have to treat our recalcitrant six-year-olds. They can't make mature decisions for themselves, so we do it for them.
Teen: I hate you!
Parent: Okay, you're allowed to hate me. But you're not allowed to say it. Now your grounding is extended for the rest of the month.
Teen: That's not fair!
Parent: Seriously, you need to stop right now. You don't want this to go on any longer.
Teen: You suck!
Parent: Now you are confined to your bedroom. Go.
Teen: You can't make me!
Parent (who can make him): Do you really want to test that theory?
Parent (who can't make him): I do not want to get outside authority like the police involved. That would be terrible and might tear our family apart. But I will, if you refuse to obey me.
<etc.>
I understand that there are some hardheaded, obstinate teens who defy their parents to their face. Why their parents put up with it, I can't imagine. If you love the child, you will do what is in his best interest, even if that means he leaves. Some people refuse to learn except by nasty, heartbreaking personal experience. So be it. Better they learn by sad experience than that they don't learn at all.

Robert Oster Caffe Crema (Lamy Al-Star, EF)
Left: Akkerman #09 Laan van Nieuw Oost-Indigo (Pilot Vanishing Point, F)
Right: Pilot Blue Black (Pilot Metropolitan, F)

Person0 - masculine Persona - feminine See? Perfect!
Alternatively, just assume they're being blood types.

Based on what I understand, and have witnessed, I disagree with this sentiment.  I personally know missionaries who had full intercourse and repented and were able to serve.  So long as there was never a marriage, pregnancy, or abortion, my understanding is that they are still eligible to serve once the repentance process is complete and they are deemed worthy.
BTW, @Persona, welcome!  I wish you the best and hope your Stake President will correct your Bishop and give you the opportunity to serve, so long as you remain clean and fully forsake your sins!

Welcome, @Persona!  I don't know the answer - this is very much in the hands of priesthood leaders and according to policy.  But I do know that you should prepare to serve a mission whether or not you may be called to serve a full time mission.  First, preparing will ensure that's not a delay in case you are called.  Second, preparing will help you to be an effective member missionary - and those are needed everywhere all the time.
You've done well to repent - I can only imagine what a struggle that was.  Don't give up the ground you've gained!  Keep working to come closer to the Lord, no matter what else happens.  If it happens that you can't serve a full time mission, please don't doubt the Lord's ability to use you in other ways which can be just as effective.

So someone pointed out the other day in institute that at the garden of Gethsemane, before Christ's Atonement, 8 apostles were to wait beyond the river and 3 were to walk with him to the garden. A total of 12 (Including Christ). Similarly, there were 8 witnesses to the Book of Mormon as well as a separate 3. A total of 12 (including Joseph Smith) that were present.
Nothing beyond this was said, but it did spark my interest. Was that just coincidence or is there some sort of symbolism here???

Another way to ask this question is, "What is the nature of the veil of forgetfulness?" We do not know the answer to that. I personally am not convinced that we ever have a full recall of all we have experienced. Those who are exalted have access to all truth, which is to say all knowledge of things past, present, and future, so in effect they will "remember" their premortal experiences, one way or another. But it is not obvious to me that we all at some point have "the veil" suddenly and magically "removed", at which point we "remember" everything from before our birth.

There is certainly a scriptural pattern to Satan trying to stop good things from happening. But don't worry you are in good company with many of the great prophets of the past!
 

I have seen quite a few bright, and not so bright people on either side.
For those without an organized religion or structured belief system , It seems to me that often their political party becomes their dogma.

Thanks.  Very interesting.
Aren't almost all cities liberal - or at least more liberal than the areas surrounding them?
My dad said once (with no small amount of disgust) that almost every county in Washington State was red, except the one that covers most of the Seattle Metro (King)
i guess i'd consider myself a conservative in theory - and middle of the road with liberal leanings in practice.  i think the government does a pretty awful and inefficient job at most social things - but i don't know - seems like someone has to step in when a lot of people play life like my brother used to play a game of Monopoly (hint: he cheated   - and was pretty good at it too).  
i wonder what it is about cities that make people more liberal.  i tend to think a person's political leanings are mostly a function of the experiences of their parents, followed by their own experiences - which are often not that different.  

Ok, I'll just share my thoughts on these subjects, knowing of course everyone is different.
When it comes to archeology-- or rather studies of human archeologist doing their best with their current paradigms... Honestly, I don't find it to be a very useful subject for proving faith.  After all, the first biggest points would be to prove the existence of God and He doesn't fit in a test tube repeatable experiment very well.  And then that this God has emotions, and then what the emotions are,,,,, and somewhere down the chain that this historic person Jesus was actually a divine Son of God... it's just a long chain of stuff and I don't find it all that useful-- I'd rather use other tools in the tool box.
One of the things I actually love about the LDS faith is our acknowledgment that there IS light and goodness in all people and faiths.  Obviously not priesthood authority and all truths, but still much good. 
The LDS faith certainly can be a vechiale certainly can be that, as can many other faiths.  Obviously I don't think all cars were created equal.  
The first step to learning is to examine things!  I'd consider your examination to be a good thing.
Oh, I could on a whole tangent on both of these.
Men of God are still men.  Thats something made abundantly clear in scripture and study of LDS actual LDS doctrine.  I'm not denying the tendency for LDS culture to forget that, or the opposite extreme either.  
I find that 2 Nephi 25:23 is one of the misinterpreted verses of scripture.  
"What you can do" = believe.  Hence the preaching and rejoicing in Christ described earlier.  You're in no ways going to work your way to heaven- that's laughable.  "What you can do" = believe.  Not just with your mind, but with all of you.  Rest of everything (like taking on His name at baptism) follows naturally with this all encompassing belief. 
Not sure what you're getting at here.
I'm a professional scientist who builds instruments to measure things (amoung other duties).  When you're building an instrument, you test it by:
1) Having a known positive and making sure the instrument rings positive.  Then the reverse: a known negative and making sure the instrument rings negative.  Rinse and repeat several times, refining instrument as needed.  
2) Have a unknown test and listen to what the instrument tells you: did the instrument get it right?  Rinse and repeat several times, refining instrument as needed.  
3) At this point you have decent confidence your instrument works well.  Of course, later calibration check-ups and refinement are always good things.
 
Learning to listen to the Spirit is just like every other instrument and follows the same protocol.