pkstpaul

I guess you read my post in the 27 seconds it was up, before I read yoyoteacher's post and thought "oh, that's what she meant". My apologies. It doesn't help the perception here that I am a raving lunatic. I'm sorry to hear about your family member's behavior. It is likely temporary as she sorts things out. I do stand by my comments on separating church and gospel. It it better to focus on participation in the gospel more than church. One will lead to the other. When I meet former members in public, I never bring up church. I try to find something else of interest, which is easy for me because I have a lot of interests outside of church.

I edited out my post - concerned that maybe I misunderstood the context of the question.

I think his a reasonable question. There are lots of times the scholars of Church, in this forum, pull out good information about history and policy. It seems to be hobby for many. That's all he's asking. Does anybody know why this is policy?

Because, I was married in the temple without my family and my family felt hurt and didn't even attend my rececption (with the exception of my sainted Catholic parents. No brothers, sisters, cousins, nephews, on either side of our family, or ANY non-member bothered with the reception because they missed the "wedding". Now, I refrained from saying that to the OP, because I didn't want to scare her, but since the issue is pushed... now you know why I do not hesitate to tell a part member family to hold a wedding for the sake of the harmony of and happines of the family and the bride and groom. A wedding is sacred whether civil or temple. What do you tell women who marry a man who is already sealed? That their marriage is a sham? We go into a marriage on FAITH that we will stay married; certainly for a whole year.

None of my family are members of the Church. We did the wedding in the temple and the bishop had agreed to do a "ceremony" at the reception but he backed out as my spouse and I were standing there to do the rings. It was very awkward.

My first thought was "no, not so soon!", but I relaxed. Planning is planing, not doing. Here I go with a comment that will surely draw ire amongst those with whom I now fight with in other threads. I hope to justify the comment enough to soothe the argument. You don't need to get "married" in the temple. In fact, in many countries, it is not allowed. You must be married in a civil ceremony before you can go to the temple. This is "fact". Being "married in the temple" is a cultural thing, not legal. I didn't go so far as to say "wait a year after marriage" to get sealed, but I am hearing it from others and frankly am not opposed, because of the number of divorces and annulments I witness. Now, bring on the "do what is right and perfect" comments from the others.

I'm not makeing any claim to trying to create unity. I'm not the OP wondering why there isn't more unity. I'm only trying to answer his question. I made my statement and I see others backing me up all through this thread. I'll shut up now. I've never been warned on this forum and don't intent to be now.

No need to call ahead. Just show up. Prepare a slip of paper with some background on yourself, including callings held. You'll want to provide them your birthdates for them to use when pulling your records. Give it to any member of the bishopric. Good luck. They'll be lucky to have you.

I almost did a 'like' on one of you comments the other day. Then I thought...'why start now'. You are a highly intellegent person. You have a great insight into the gospel and the Church. You have a fantatic talent in recalling scripture and history. As I have said in the past, I don't disagree with you on your doctrinal view. I appreciate that you such a strong member of the Church. If I were a leader, I would probably call someone like you as a counselor just to balance me out. I have a complete dislike for the attitude in which you choose to teach us. If I knew you, I'd give Mrs. TFP a metal.

It isn't the points of the arugument that are bullying. It is the unrelentless talking down to people to frustrate them to the point of abondoning the argument. I almost never even read the comments of a half dozen posters to this forum. TFP opened himself up because he 'sought' some understanding as to why we are not united. I am obliging with my 'opinion'. You, Traveler, are one of the top offenders, so I don't expect you to understand. It is interesting to compare this forum to others. There is far more activity on other forums. There are hundreds of posts per day and thousands of responses. This forum can go a day or two without a new topic posted. I curious as to why. There is a lot of heated discussion on the other forums but perhaps for some reason people don't feel villified there. Just an observation.

It isn't that we don't know or believe the doctrine. The disagreements in the forum are more about to what level of exactness are we expected to carry them out (i.e. perfection). You, and a obvious handful of others, bully people on points where you expect perfection in an answer. You accept nothing but complete surrender that we are all failures because we are not perfect. If only we were more obedient, if only we were more in line. As I stated earlier, you leave no room for the human experience - the fact that we were born into imperfection and will all likely die in imperfection. I know I worded this harshly; especially to use the word 'bully'. And I know the respose is "show me where I...", but I don't live on this forum, nor do I wish to live for this forum, so no, I will not go searching your history to prove the point. I think others (those of us shouted down) will understand what I am saying.

I needed Jane_Doe's perspective to understand your issue. Thanks for confirming that. I have always seen God as part of me and not foreign or controlling. The gospel is part of me. Understanding the gospel is understanding myself. If you are concerned about participation in the Church as controlling your life, maybe my perspective will help. I don't get bogged down in "church" definitions (i.e. I separate church and gospel). The church is a means of administering the gospel and therefore necessary, but I don't define myself by the church. In other words, I don't give in to all the political struggles within a ward. I don't sweat people's perception of if I am a good "Mormon". I seek to be at peace with my participation in the gospel, not church. Having said that... I am a good Mormon. I do fully participate, hold a temple recommend, have a calling, and do my visiting teaching, etc. I do it because it brings me joy and like I said, the Church is where the gospel is administered and I want the Church to be successful. But, I'm not going to let what goes on in a building dictate my happiness or my relationship to Heavenly Father.

So glad you shared. I'm trying to convince myself that what I have felt is the same as you, but I'm uncertain. In my shoes, I would see it as fear. I learned "action cures fear", a chapter title of a favorite sales motivation book. I practice it as often as I find myself shrinking away from something I know I should do. It can be as simple as a phone call...'move out of the chair' is the first action that melts the fear of picking up the phone. I think you will find that whatever wall you imagine in front of you will melt away as you move toward it. It is really your only option of reactivating yourself. Get up on Sunday morning and get dressed and move to the car and walk through the church doors. I think you will be pleasantly surprised. People are going to love you. I often suggest inviting over your Relief Society President just to get a feel for the landscape. The culture you face in Florida is far different than many in the forum can imagine. I'm sure the cliques there are far tighter than most wards and people that far out in "the mission field" are often untrained/unskilled in church administration. Still, the gospel is true and people should ignore your absence and welcome you in. Just take that step. Good luck!

That's what I said.

I seldom find disagreement on your interpretation of doctrine. What I find offensive in many of your posts is a complete disregard for the human experience. Your often flippant responses equate to "if you were more godlike, you wouldn't have a problem". Well yes, if we were more godlike we wouldn't have a problem. You seem to completely ignore that we (those of us on Earth) are in a period of growth; many different stages of growth. Some of us are never going to "get it" while during our Earthly stay. I think we are at one heart and mind when the Spirit wishes it to be so. But short of a Pentecostal awakening, we're not all going to have that same level of experience at the same time, even when reading the same doctrine, or hearing the same talk, or saying the same prayer, simply because we have human filters that block or interpret the Spirit. Some of those are even physiological. Your frustration with us being frustrated with you is a matter of you thinking we are lacking. Yes we are, but you could allow people to be wrong and not feel we are lacking for not having the same full understanding as you. Who knows, maybe someday you will see things the way we do. :)

Ditto to Eowyn's words. Yours is a story often repeated in the forum and I am a member of the forum for less than a year. I can assure you, you are not alone in what you face. My two cents: Your life will change only by your doing. You cannot look to your husband, family, or church to change what you face. By "church", I mean the institution, not the gospel. AND, change will take time. You can walk away from what you have and accept some temporary (years) of discomfort living on welfare while you sort things out or you can start to make changes internal yourself while in the "relative" comfort of the life you have now. I assure you, it will be easier to do it with the resources you have now. At least now, you can set goals and plan without having to worry about daily survival an comfort. Put NO blame on your husband or your current or past circumstances. Focus only on what you are going to change. Focus on physical health - diet; security - save some money (however small); and rejuvenate yourself spiritually - pray. You don't have to go to your bishop to become active at church, but you may wish to meet with your Relief Society President and ask about activities you can go to or service you can provide. I'm sure you don't expect things to change overnight, but change will come when you start to act.

We did the summer camp thing one year. That was it. Otherwise, the boys did just as you expect - played in the neighborhood. Now, my granddaughter is different. We have the money now, which we didn't have as parents, to put her in all kinds of activities and have booked her summer (not literally every day). She's extremely active and needs the stimulation. We also chalk it up to "education". So, I'd like to say we found a balance where she has the free time but also structured time. As for safety, you teach your kids how to be safe and then trust them. A little reinforcement from time to time is important, as child development requires repetition through the years.

I no longer view the News as anything more than the entertainment media. There is no such thing as a journalist anymore. As for the cartoon issue, there are more than 5,000,000 muslims in the US. I wouldn't want to provoke even .1% of them. A group with a proven track record of extreme violence should not be provoked.

Look at it as a period of growth and not something detracting from your relationship. Even after marriage, circumstances have led for my spouse and I to be separated for the benefit of the progression of our family. I in no way mean separated like a preamble for divorice. I mean we had to take jobs in different cities.We knew it was temporary and it was the best thing to do at the time. No regrets. Sure, it was difficult, but they were periods of growth. This will be a great time for you work on your spiritual and personal growth as well.

Follow the money.

I don't have any issue with their Christian doctrine but I often view evangelicals as extreme in behavior. I don't like extremes in any faith, including LDS.

There aren't any dead folks in the temple. Not physically anyway. For the record, I can't say what is unique about the ceiling over the font and I've been in the font.

I could write one but there isn't a market - as Vort may have found. Feel free to ask for specific advice. I found successful people are always willing to share. They (we) don't fear competition. Your success is our success. That would be one chapter in the book.

It can be a sensitive topic for some. I've given unfavorable responses in the forum, in the past. I agree that it can be a powerful program. I think it necessary. I wish it was better administered. I just had my HTs move and they were exactly what I expected or wanted in HT. They came regularly, provided a message and support, and stayed only as long as we were comfortable.

Wicked would be those that work against the will of God, not those that simply don't understand the will.