David13

God expects us to do the footwork. This means you must occupy your mind with other things, not just pray that it will magically happen with no effort on your part. We have been discussing this much lately. The Lord will provide, but we must do the footwork. dc

Now I love to hear and think about Shakespeare. One of my favorites in the original form. Not the revised form. I think both the ideas are true. I certainly know of enough dead people who are only spoken of with great reverence. But not so in life. And vice versa. dc

The other thing is time. How much time has gone by. They are waiting to see if in fact you have changed, or it was just a temporary fad. Just a thing to try to fit in. Or is it a total life change that will last? Will you endure to the end? Or will you end up back out there in the street with the old ways. I'm not questioning you. I'm not asking you for answers. I'm just saying those are the questions you have to ask yourself, and answer to yourself and to your maker. Whether those people are smarmy to you or not does not matter. What matters is who you are, what you will become, where you are going. I know there are many with me, still the same way. If I were to read their minds I know they are saying "that guy will never last, he won't make it. He'll disappear one day soon." It's just human nature. I just joined the church (having been called in) at age 65. Can you blame them for being skeptical? I don't. But I know who I am, what I'm doing, why I'm doing it, and where I'm going. That's what's important. And I know, some have told me, that I'm an inspiration to them. dc

I have grilled, or I mean quizzed them all about how they did it. They usually worked and saved. One did gardening with a guy who had the contract for the chapel, among other jobs. One went to Australia from home in Taiwan to work and earn money to do it. Some, the parents pay it all, seemingly more so with the ladies. Of course, we only have male missionaries, or for some reason I never get to see or talk to the female ones, I only know the family where the girls didn't work. But. And that's a big but. I thought there were educational requirements. You have to successfully complete Seminary or Institute and pass tests. That must be done, as you might be assigned to a foreign country where you would need an official education certificate to get a religious visa. I know we just had a big confab on Seminary graduation last night which was for those going on a mission. Then I believe you pay $400 a month, no matter what. If your apartment is cheap, you get a cheap apartment. If your apartment is expensive, you still only pay $400. Mostly you eat at members houses. So you better like "home" cooking. You never know what you might get. A lot of the empty nesters or singles like me take them out to eat. The families, get in line with the other hungry kids. Now, a fellow was raving about how Mormon women were the best cooks. They cook all their life and start at an early age and they are the best. I haven't had much experience with that unfortunately, but certainly the down home restaurants in Utah where I have a lot of experience are all good. And then, get ready to be abused. Not everyone is all anxious and bright eyed to hear your gospel. It can get nasty. dc

I invited the whole ward because I thought that would be a good idea. It would get them out to the Temple more, give them a social interaction opportunity, give them the opportunity to support me, etc. A lot of them have kids so they don't get to get out much. Something to do but with no admission fee. Not that I know they don't have anything to do. They are all busy. And some company for me. But it backfired. So be careful with that. I heard yesterday that while I am praying to move to Utah, they are praying that I stay here. dc

I invited the whole ward because I thought that would be a good idea. It would get them out to the Temple more, give them a social interaction opportunity, give them the opportunity to support me, etc. A lot of them have kids so they don't get to get out much. Something to do but with no admission fee. Not that I know they don't have anything to do. They are all busy. And some company for me. But it backfired. So be careful with that. I heard yesterday that while I am praying to move to Utah, they are praying that I stay here. dc

Well, sexual relationship would be more than personal relationship, which is what I'm saying. They have a professional relationship with is mutual love of the brothers and sisters and the gospel. But not necessarily a personal relationship such as personal friends. And again, you are a family. So they fit in as adopted kids. Don't forget I'm an older single male. I suppose if I had a wife and some kids they would come and play with the kids. However, it would be as the full time missionaries. I guess what I'm thinking of is the proper role identification. I have a neighbor who's head is rather screwed up. He hadn't seen or talked to his mother for many many years. Then he reconnected. And after 15 minutes announced that now his mother was now his "best friend". A mother is always a mother, never a "best friend". Your best friend is your best friend, and your mother is your mother. Different roles. And proper role identification is always important. I think, getting back to the op, op should not try to make friends with the cop on the corner, nor the mailman. He should be friendly with them, but should seek friendship for the sake of friendship. But in the meantime, get out and serve others, thereby making himself a friend to them, without seeking anything (including friendship) in return. And having less time to worry about his loneliness. dc

Good for you and I guess your family, Pam. I'm my case they consider me like most of the people in the ward, a client. They do not get to "hang out". Their time is strictly regulated. They have work to do at all times, otherwise they must be studying scripture, etc. So basically it's a professional (for them) relationship. They have numbers on a check list that they need to check off. They have reports to file and goals to accomplish. They don't get to hang around as 'at large friends'. Don't get me wrong, they are friendly, considerate, all that. dc

Anatess I do feel I'm their friend. That I can and will be a friend to them. What I mean is that they have the other missionaries who they consider their friends and associates and colleagues and they have 100 others (mostly families) to feed them and socialize with, which is like their family, or family away from their family, and 100 duties and responsibilities, so usually with me they eat and run, about as fast as they can. Now, of course, it could just be me and my personality, but I doubt it. Paying professional. A paid professional is like your lawyer. Your lawyer, doctor, dentist is generally not your friend. They are paid professionals. You can become personal with them and become friends but it usually isn't done for professional, legal, and personal reasons. They need to keep a professional distance. A paying professional, is a full time missionary who's 24 hour, 7 day a week job is to be a missionary for the church, and they pay for that privilege. Friends and people who are there just for the friendship. dc

I don't know about Lagoon, or where or what it is. But I will tell you that going back some years I have had experience taking kids to the parks here, and $100 wouldn't even get you in the door. Not even a few of them. dc

I just finished with my ad response buyer. First class experience as previously. On time, cash as agreed, no problems or issues, flexible at the meeting, as we had to change location. It seemed a little suspicious at first, but, then like on previous occasions turned out excellent. dc

Pam That was not meant to be a real scientific analogy or homily. Just more of an off the cuff statement. I know that we are supposed to feed them. And I do. But that does not mean that they are my friends. They are paid professional proselytizers, or paying professionals. Full timers. We are supposed to feed them no matter what, not to have friends. And, getting back to my suggestions, as seen above, there are many elderly single, widowed people in and around the ward. They need a friend. They need someone to come along and pay them a visit. I have been doing that all my life, and they have told me how much they appreciate it. How the kids (adults) don't come around or call, etc. And how nobody comes to visit them. But me. You know, I doubt if there is anyone more poor old sad and lonely and friendless than me on this forum. And the best cure I know of, for me, and for others should they choose to do it, is to get out there and visit the elderly, The widowed, or even an old couple. dc

I'm going thru the same thing right now. I'll see how it turns out. In previous cases they turned out to be good buyers. So one never knows. It's your right as the seller to cut it off at any time. dc

The missionaries? That's like paying someone to be your friend. I think the best bet is visit the elderly, the sick, the lame, etc. I have long known that there are many old people out there, the kids (now adult) never visit, friends are gone etc. And they love to have a visitor. dc

I think this one will definitely backfire on the father. The kid now has a total sense of independence and self sufficiency and self reliance. He will pay no attention to anything the father says, other than to say "don't tell me what to do. If you don't like it, I'll just go out and live in the forest. I don't need to listen to you." dc

I was told, I think, that I had to have a guide. And there were several who asked to do it. But one had been there from the first was the one I asked, and then his father was working at the Temple that evening. So I got the vip treatment. (They know about the cancer) I also invited everyone in the ward, and half the rest of the stake, and a good part of them showed up, too. However it was the last night before the Temple closed for a week or two for cleaning, and about half of Los Angeles showed up. They set up chairs in the aisles. The number was around 250 people in the session I heard. And so many were turned away that they put on a later extra session. But that's a Saturday night in Los Angeles. It was a good opportunity to get better acquainted with the people in the ward and stake. I have since been to weekday sessions around Utah and California where there were 6 or 7 brothers, and 20 or 30 sisters. To me it was much nicer to have all those people there. I'm single, and the other meaningful thing is to have a lady go along. Someone to pray with. dc If I recall, they wouldn't give me the recommend until I finished the Temple preparation class (I was the only student)

For me the Temple is a glorious experience. I learn and experience something new every time. Mostly what I learn every time is how little I know. I think it's important to go with an open mind, without any particular expectations. Just go to experience it. Then also go down to SLC for the live session after your first sessions. I found that to be so much more meaningful, in terms of the human element. It was a new experience for me this year myself. dc

I'd say two years. If somebody doesn't know what's going on after two years, I definitely think it's time to look elsewhere. Two years in a relationship is a long time, long enough to find out everything. dc

That's my question. Who do you go to visit? Anyone? What about the lonely old single men and women? Do you regularly call on them? dc

No, that's just to say that I think the proper point of view is that we do not believe in reincarnation.. I think to indicate that I do not think I speak for the church here. I did ask about it when it was brought up. So I did have confirmation from someone in the church all their life.. But I can't speak for the church. dc

Well, I can assure you all that after the several times they were deployed here, after a bit, they all went home. With no further problems from the restless 'ones'. Other than the usual continual problems when they get restless. And that includes Detroit too. I have also been in other countries and had no problem with them, in particular Mexico. They are everywhere. And usually no problem at all, particularly if you are not a narcotraficante. Either buyer or seller, which I never was. If they are deployed to disarm the law abiding citizens, then there will be a big problem. Literate Parakeet If you have a home invader around here, you had better be able to entertain them for a half hour at minimum before the police MIGHT show up. Which might tell you that you might prepare a better defense strategy than just 'dial 911'. dc

Gator I live in Los Angeles. We have had a few riots here unlike anything they have seen in Utah, or perhaps Florida. And martial law. And there are quite a few who have been rather appreciative of the National Guard roaming the streets at night.. I'm also from Michigan, and recall the same thing in Detroit, back in the 60s. I would like to also point out that the first to hide in those riots were ... the local police. And rightfully so, as they were one of the first targeted, outnumbered, and out gunned. Maybe you just live in a different America than I do. So sometimes we just have to speak for ourselves. dc

I wasn't offended either. Or if I was I soon forgot about it. I'm seldom offended. It takes a lot. If I seem offended, I have to look at why, and frequently it can be that it's something true, something I need to work on. So I take it to heart and work on it, rather than just take offense. I appreciate my regular travels to Utah and the prodigious input the people give in classes there. Really insightful and meaningful participation. Less so here. But here more there seems to be too frequently some off the wall participation. We have some Cambodian members here and they were inputting about reincarnation. I had to clarify, so the official word on the church and members was, that, no, we don't believe in reincarnation. I think. dc

unixknight What is with your adversion to camo? You are not one of these guys still running around with a Harley t shirt when he doesn't own nor ride a Harley, are you? That type of thing is all over with today. Today, it's camo. Even for the women. So get with it. dc

I am similar. I do not believe, no, I know that watching tv is not sport. It is couch potato. However, bring over a football and I will throw and catch it with you til we are tired. Or a baseball, or if you get a draw on an elk, I'm there with you. dc