laronius

On the one hand I don't blame them. With the amount of true symbolism found in the ancient faith (and even now in Christianity) and with our knowledge of all things bearing witness that there is a God, looking for the symbol is going to be instinctive. But not everything anciently came from God. Some things came undoubtedly from man during times of apostasy. And making that distinction, even for those of us who believe in personal revelation, can be tricky. But I'm glad to hear there is at least some basis in what the website is talking about.

I was doing a Google search of possible symbolism of the word "nail" in Hebrew and came across a website where they are looking at the symbolism of not Hebrew words but the individual characters of the Hebrew alphabet. I had never heard of this before but what I read about one particular character that is representative of a nail I thought was really interesting and it got me wondering if this is legit or is someone just trying really hard to make something of nothing. I am including the link below because the article was really lllloooonnnngggg and I only read the first little bit to get an idea of what they were talking about. https://agapegeek.com/2023/10/30/jesus-in-the-ancient-hebrew-alphabet-part-7-vav-jesus-the-nail-for-heaven-to-earth-connection/

I'm not opposed to crossbreeding and other agricultural tricks to produce a more desirable product. I am a little worried though about GMOs which is scientists using technology to modify the DNA of plants and animals. Does it totally stop me from buying those products? Not really. But I am a little concerned about unintended consequences. But this is all completely separate from organic, which I do actively try to consume. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that if you spray chemicals on a fruit or vegetable and then you consume that fruit or vegetable, there is is a decent chance that you are consuming some of that chemical. I'm not a 100% organic only person but I do believe that the less pesticides and radiation exposed foods we consume the better.

How about the time BY snuck up on a passed out drunkard and chopped his head off. Oh wait, that was a different prophet. Or how about BY trying to slit his own son's throat because he thought God told him to. Oh wait, that was a different prophet as well. Perhaps that they were all prophets is the only context that matters. That of course won't fly with those outside the Church but with some things that's all there is because sometimes what God does (or wants done) flies in the face of all mortal reasoning. I can already hear the retort: "But God actually told them to do those things!" Well how can we know what God did and didn't tell BY to do? I don't think any of us is in a position to pass judgement on him. If you were simply looking for a way to explain such things to those not of our faith, I wish you well. But for those of our faith it really shouldn't require apologetics.

I think we can thank Satan for this. He quite effectively corrupted man's understanding of who they are and who God is. I don't blame people for not believing that we can actually become like some totally foreign and incomprehensible being. How does one even relate to that let alone be inspired to become like that? It just magnifies the importance of the first vision of Joseph Smith. I think we as members of the Church overlook that sometimes, just how much was revealed in that single moment of the appearance of God the Father and His Son. I used to wonder why relating that event as a missionary was almost always the most powerful and Spirit-filled part of teaching people. It was just how much truth was being restored. We generally focus on the "don't join any churches" aspect but there was so much more than that.

A fourth but much rarer source of truth would be a personal manifestation of the Lord Himself. Such as with Joseph Smith, Paul, the Nephites, etc. And could we classify creation as a source of truth? Truth is revealed in everything around us.

Elder Rasband after quoting Exodus 3:5 "Putting off our shoes at the door of the temple is letting go of worldly desires or pleasures that distract us from spiritual growth, setting aside those things which sidetrack our precious mortality, rising above contentious behavior, and seeking time to be holy." Oct 2020 GC I think shoes are specified because they so easily get dirty with the filth of this world but it's representative of putting off this world entirely (changing into white clothing) and like you said, connecting with the divine.

There is a difference though between those who show up because they are personally asked to and those who show up because they are simply made aware of a need. And it's a significant difference. If we only ever acted because the Spirit specifically told us to the Lord would not be pleased. Is it better than not responding at all? Of course. But it falls short of what the Lord is asking of us

In the Lectures on Faith, Joseph Smith said if faith: "it is the assurance we have of the existence of unseen things." I think these unseen things can exist in both time and space. Heaven exists in space, in the present, though it remains unseen to most of us yet we have faith that it exists. What you are describing is things that exist in time or more specifically will exist (according to our perspective). Though it has not yet happened we believe it will.

It is not unusual for these types of prophecy to have dual fulfillments, temporal and spiritual. I really like that phrase "desolate heritages." It so perfectly describes the scattering of Israel in relation to apostatizing from the ways of their righteous fathers and then temporal scattering that followed. In the latter days, both the temporal and spiritual gatherings will and are taking place. Much of what you are describing relates to the spiritual gathering, of which covenants play a significant role.

And is it saying that it is God who exercised faith to frame the worlds or was it the faith in God as exercised by everything else that framed the worlds?

This made me think of this: Alma 7:12 ...he will take upon him their infirmities, that his bowels may be filled with mercy, according to the flesh, that he may know according to the flesh how to succor his people according to their infirmities. 13 Now the Spirit knoweth all things... There's a difference between knowledge we are taught and knowledge we acquire by experience. I don't know what exactly the Savior experienced in the Garden of Gethsemane but it was sufficient for Him to relate to everything we experience in life and that was important to Him.

It makes me wonder. The light of the gospel is not shelf stable. It must be continually fed otherwise it is lost. Is that an eternal principle or a result of the fallen existence we find ourselves in? If eternal, is faith required in the eternities to maintain exaltation?

This taps into the potential issue that arises from these doctrine. On the one hand the scriptures appear to teach that faith must at some point yield to knowledge to yield it's full fruit, such as: John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. But we also have Joseph Smith making statements such as it by faith that God essentially creates and governs the universe (not sure how omniscience plays into that). So perhaps the ignorance referred to is ignorance of the truth only and that there is an aspect of faith that must persist even with the acquisition of knowledge. That word "dormant" may also be something worth pondering on as well.

Does D&C 131:6 It is impossible for a man to be saved in ignorance. Teach us anything about Alma 32:21 And now as I said concerning faith—faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true.