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I found it......oh wait I think it's easy to lose the nuance in a discussion like this. Vort expresses issues with the media, statistics and reporting on COVID and it can be easy to lump him in with the Anti-vaxxers. NT touts the vaccines effectiveness and it can be easy to think that indicates support of governments or business requiring people to get the shot.

I'm curious. How close to the numbers would you need to be to be more comfortable with the statistics? Is it just the COVID stats you have issues with or is it in general, like the unemployment rates, GDP numbers, Nielsen's ratings for TV shows, etc?

I'm trying to figure out how this applies to the performance of Americans of African vs European descent? Do African-Americans have an inherited culture of running more often and for longer distances? I'm definitely no geneticist, but I have two sons that we've had to get some genetic tests done for. My impression is that there is still a whole lot that we don't understand about how they work, particularly when multiple genes are involved. I wonder about his conclusion that because they didn't find a genetic reason means that there isn't one. I do agree that the other factors he talks about, MVA, etc, contribute to the improved athlete's performance. I'm just not convinced we can write genetics out completely.

I feel like I should explain my choice of "ghost" to search Looking at my post again, I can see that was probably a peculiar word to use. I wanted something I knew would be in the Handbook as well as other places and my first thought was "Holy Ghost." But then I thought, "what about just Holy?" Third thought, I wonder if there's anything about ghost that doesn't refer to the Holy Ghost

I went to the search function and typed in "Ghost." A whole lot of items from all over popped up. But right under the search bar, I have a horizontal list of sources I can choose to search from and handbook is one of the options. I clicked that and it narrowed the list down considerably. Is that what you're looking for?

That Melvin Lee dunk was during a college basketball game!!!! That was awesome!

The Follow Him podcast by Hank Smith and John Bytheway had a great two episode discussion with Barbara Gardner on section 84 that answered, or at least addressed, a lot of these questions. https://followhim.co/

I can understand that need. There's been a few times in the last three years I've had to go out to my car during work and just scream as loud as I could. It helped, at least in the moment. A general practitioner MD, your family doctor if you have one, should be able to give you a 15 (I think) question test that can start the diagnosis for depression. That's where I'd recommend you start. I don't know much of your background, but family is a great place to start for talking problems through. If that's not a good option, we have ministering brothers and sisters. It could be hard to start if you don't have a good relationship with them, but you could text them and say, "I want to help you magnify your calling, will you be available this week to talk about a problem I'm having?" Or something that lets them know you have something serious to talk about. For my depression, the drugs worked better than the therapy. But getting out of a toxic work environment was what really pulled me out of it. I wish you the best! You'll be in my prayers.

This is a little late to this discussion (and maybe a threadjack ) But in studying section 84 this week, it goes over the lineage of the priesthood. It seems that Abel was at least able ( ) to pass the priesthood to someone before he died. I think it's likely that it was his own children. 15 And from Noah till aEnoch, through the lineage of their fathers; 16 And from Enoch to aAbel, who was slain by the bconspiracy of his brother, who creceived the priesthood by the commandments of God, by the hand of his father dAdam, who was the first man

Or it puts you on the path to becoming a superhero https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Stephen_Strange_(Earth-616)

Great list! Although I prefer the raspberry coconut Zingers

I'm not sure how I missed this thread. A lot of interesting insights. I wonder about "the higher standard." Lex Luthor should be able to do as much good as Superman, with his intelligence and wealth, right? Could that be the standard we set for him? Maybe the heroes aren't held to a higher standard, they are just closer than others to the standard that everyone should live up to, so when they fall short it is more disappointing. Another thought....I'm not a huge DC fan, so take this with a grain of salt, but that doesn't sound like my impression of Superman, committing B&E with no proof.

Thank you That's what I was trying to get at!

I think you might have misunderstood me. That was in reference to the Church's handbook's reference to "counsel with competent medical professional." Needle asked if it needed to be a virologist or if a lab tech would be sufficient. I just gave my opinion of what the church meant by "competent medical professional." Who would you suggest the average member to counsel with?

I believe the Church expects everyone to follow that guidance as best they can, and I doubt they think everyone has access to a virologist. I took it to mean my family's doctor. I think as long as it's someone that has an education in medicine and successful in their practice at it, you're good. For me, the availability of the vaccine was an answer to prayer. I struggle to see it from another view point. Thank you for sharing yours.

I think I have a healthy relationship with my doctor, someone I trust. If he'd told me it was best to not get vaccinated, I probably would have gotten a second opinion, but if it was the same, I'd followed the advice. That's a hypothetical question though. You are the one who quoted the handbook. I'm simply asking if you (generic, or specific, I'm not sure if you (NeedleinA) have received the shots) followed the handbook and sought advice from a physician. On the other question, definitely follow the Holy Ghost. It may seem like I'm attacking or condescending and I'm not trying to. I'm actually trying to avoid that. I really am wondering if the people who aren't getting the shot are following that guidance to get advice from a medical professional. Edit: Oh, just thought this might be relevant. My wife was pregnant when the vaccine became available for her. Her OB/GYN told her to wait. There weren't enough studies yet on the vaccine for pregnant women. So she waited until three weeks after the baby was delivered as recommended by the doctor to get her first shot. Edit2: As I read my edit, I can see it can be read sarcastically or condescendingly. I didn't mean it like that. I honestly hadn't thought of my wife's experience when first replying and when I did remember it, I thought it would be relevant.

I am genuinely curious. Of the forum members here who have decided not to get the COVID vaccine, did you consult a medical professional?

Pretty much, yes. https://www.history.com/news/1918-flu-pandemic-never-ended https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2020/09/01/1918-flu-pandemic-end/

Because they were fresh before they were frozen???

I googled the death's in US by cause and found a JAMA study, linked below. It is using preliminary data, but I found it interesting. COVID is 3rd in cause of death for 2020 behind heavyweight killers heart disease and cancer. Still the virus managed to rack up 10% of US kills. I thought that was impressive. I always feel pleased with myself if I score 10% of my teams points in basketball. I do understand that there is a question among some about the veracity of cause of COVID death claims. But in the "Understanding..." section, they say that at an analytical level, it appears that COVID deaths might actually be under-reported. On a tangent, I also found it interesting that suicide deaths went down (4k) for the year. I had assumed that they'd be up, thinking that the isolation would be harmful to those prone to it. But unintential injuries increased (20k) and they think a lot of that is drug related. So suicides are more than offset in that category. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2778234 (This isn't really directed at you @Vort, just quoted you because the comment on "large" is what sparked my search )

Costco has a huge (surprise, right?) bag of popcorn that I love! We don't go to Costco often, but it's the first thing I say when my wife asks what we need there. Of course, I can't find it on their website now, but below is the same bag through instacart. https://www.instacart.com/landing?product_id=16462122&retailer_id=5&region_id=1130124559&utm_medium=sem_shopping&utm_source=instacart_google&utm_campaign=ad_demand_shopping_rp_july-4&utm_content=accountid-8145171519_campaignid-13618159377_adgroupid-124781678355_device-c&gclid=Cj0KCQjw0emHBhC1ARIsAL1QGNfW49NBzNHymTqKdyPXn-KSHcLFztBB_RGucHYte0PbHjTwl6jjiPwaAjMZEALw_wcB

As I was going back and saw the 49 number, I got this song stuck in my head and can't get it out now!

I was simply extrapolating the data from earlier provided by the article on NJ numbers from Carb. The death rates for vaccinated is 0.0009% and for non-vaccinated is 0.27%. It was more an exercise in demonstrating how an seemingly insignificant change in percentages like that can have large impacts. It wasn't meant to be infallible.

I'm not on social media so I can't pour through their feeds to see if they posted about it. But this Deseret article from January said that all the others were simply waiting until the tiers went down to include 60+. I think it's safe to assume that all, or nearly all, of the 15 living apostles have received the vaccine by now. https://www.deseret.com/faith/2021/1/19/22238767/latter-day-saint-church-leaders-vaccinated-urge-members-to-protect-selves-mormon-lds The other seven senior church leaders are all in their 60s and will wait for the vaccine with other younger Utahns, including two 69-year-olds, Elders Neil L. Andersen and Ronald A. Rasband.