Traveler

My personal studies seem to indicate a few things that might be of interest.  I have often wondered why angles only came to a few shepherds in their fields - especially since a group of devoted followers of the coming of the Messiah knew within 3 years when he would be born were preparing not so far from Jerusalem (near the dead sea).  They were fasting and praying as well as performing baptisms, carefully  studying scriptures, devoting their entire lives to preparing for the Messiah and as near as I can tell all possible.  The had the Levitical priesthood and were officially operating and offering sacrifices at the temple.  No angles came to them?????  Why just the shepherds near Bethlehem????
 
At Bethlehem there were at the time two main things going on.  There was like a seminary school for Scribes and priests and a special group of shepherds that raised sheep for sacrifices at the temple and use of sheep skins for temples scrolls to record scripture.  It is my speculation that it was these shepherds watching the temple sheep that were visited as a sigh to the Jewish leadership class - that they were not worthy.  These temple shepherds were kind of the bottom of the barrel when it came to service status.
 
The Dead Sea scrolls ought to be a wake up call to those that think their efforts to serve G-d according to what they think is G-d's plan according to their understanding of scripture - were left out at the most important time.  We may think our membership in church and faith it scripture is not qualify us for that kind of spiritual blessing that was extended to those shepherds.

I oppose gambling, but two-parent families are like the favorites in horse racing.  They don't always win, but they are the better bet. 

My personal studies seem to indicate a few things that might be of interest.  I have often wondered why angles only came to a few shepherds in their fields - especially since a group of devoted followers of the coming of the Messiah knew within 3 years when he would be born were preparing not so far from Jerusalem (near the dead sea).  They were fasting and praying as well as performing baptisms, carefully  studying scriptures, devoting their entire lives to preparing for the Messiah and as near as I can tell all possible.  The had the Levitical priesthood and were officially operating and offering sacrifices at the temple.  No angles came to them?????  Why just the shepherds near Bethlehem????
 
At Bethlehem there were at the time two main things going on.  There was like a seminary school for Scribes and priests and a special group of shepherds that raised sheep for sacrifices at the temple and use of sheep skins for temples scrolls to record scripture.  It is my speculation that it was these shepherds watching the temple sheep that were visited as a sigh to the Jewish leadership class - that they were not worthy.  These temple shepherds were kind of the bottom of the barrel when it came to service status.
 
The Dead Sea scrolls ought to be a wake up call to those that think their efforts to serve G-d according to what they think is G-d's plan according to their understanding of scripture - were left out at the most important time.  We may think our membership in church and faith it scripture is not qualify us for that kind of spiritual blessing that was extended to those shepherds.

In a way I know what it is to be privileged.  My father was wealthy, prominent and highly respected.   Because I was his son - a lot was assumed.  I remember in my youth that I had no problem getting a job.  In essence I was asked only one question - are you ---'s son and I had the job.  But there is another side to that coin.  Because of my father's reputation I was expected to assume responsibility, do more than anyone else and be paid less for my level of performance.  The honest truth is that seldom did I live up to expectations.  Also I remember as a youth being picked up at night after curfew by the police.  We were told to go home - except for me.  One policeman looked at me and said, "You are ----'s son aren't you?"  When I said yes - in essence he said, "Your dad would want me to personally take you home."  Yah that is a big advantage - thanks a lot dad!!
 
The simple truth of life is that we are all different.  Every difference gives us both advantages and disadvantages or if you will privilege or less privilege.   In some cases - there are very obvious racial privilege (or advantage) for example, being black and playing in the NBA.  That does not mean that a white boy cannot play in the NBA but if a team has more black players that do not like playing with a white boy - even if the white boy gets on a team it will not work out as well as a less talented black team member that fits in better with the others.  But the problem goes even farther in that the more complaining by anyone that the white boy does not have an equal chance - the worse it will affect that attitudes of the black players and everybody else that use to playing with other blacks - regardless of the reason that someone prefers blacks. 
 
Another simple truth of life is that the more we have positive interface the less differences matter.  I learned this lesson from a very brilliant black friend.  We met many years ago (shortly after Blacks were allowed the priesthood) in the Seattle area because we were both LDS and road the same bus to work everyday.  We talked openly about racial problems in society and the LDS church.  My friend had married a beautiful white girl that happened to be a stake president's daughter.  The family was not happy that the daughter had married a black guy.  But strangely my friend was not upset - nor was he anxious to change things.  He would tell me that such things have to work their way out.  Good people must and will learn to adjust.  He would say that everybody has adjustments to make with in-laws.  I understood this because I did not like my in-laws (except for one) and my solution was to avoid them whenever possible (part of the reason I lived in Washington) - a solution that worked great for me but significantly saddened my wife.  Just a note here - the one in-law I got along with also disliked the rest of the family and also avoided them whenever possible as well.
 
As it turns out - my mother-in-law was classic bipolar and the family is classic dysfunctional.  But I learned from my black friend to think in terms of looking at myself to determine if I am adding to the problem or to a solution.  I would like to say that the problem is now solved but that is not the case - I do not mind the in-laws so much and prior to my mother-in-law passing I got along with her better than any of her children - including my wife.  I had to learn to love her in spite of the fact that I did not like her very much - actually I did not like her at all - for a very long time.
 
We are often told to love our enemies - Another simple truth about life is that it is much easier to love one's enemies that we do not have to deal with very often - we can ignore our enemies most of the time.  The hard thing is learning to love someone that we do not like very much.  And the only way to overcome prejudice is through love and kindness.  This brings me to a lesson I learned over and over from my father.  He would say anyone can be kind to those they like and when kindness is expected.  But a kind person can and will be kind to those they do not like and when kindness is not expected by anyone.  Cruel people are only kind when it suits them and it is expected. 
 
Thus the question we should all ask of ourselves - are we a kind person or are we a cruel person?

When Jesus died on the cross - his priesthood did not die and was resurrected or restored when Jesus was resurrected.  Also note that the Priesthood is the order of Melchizedek - who was also a high priest.  When Jesus left he took his personal priesthood with him but he ordained Apostles to carry on priesthood authority under his direction.  When the Apostles died - for a time priesthood authority was passed on by casting lots and ordaining replacement Apostles.  Paul was such a replacement.
 
The great apostasy ended the priesthood of Christ through apostles as appointed and commanded by Christ to govern his "kingdom".  The prophet Danial prophesied that the great kingdoms of man would end with the great kingdom of Iron that was the Roman empire - first divided into two legs and then into a divided 10 kingdoms (toes).  Then when that final kingdom (the Roman empire) was divided into 10 kingdoms that G-d would establish his kingdom with his priesthood authority again in a place known for its mountains.  From there the kingdom of G-d would go forth throughout the world to gather those that seek the kingdom of G-d.  Isaiah prophesied that this kingdom would be established in the "top of the mountains".  The ancient term "Utah" among the native Ute people means "top of the mountains". 
 
Thus the scriptures tells us that the kingdom of G-d will be established in the 1800's in Utah.  Is it not incredible and marvelous  how G-d fulfills his prophesies?

My personal studies seem to indicate a few things that might be of interest.  I have often wondered why angles only came to a few shepherds in their fields - especially since a group of devoted followers of the coming of the Messiah knew within 3 years when he would be born were preparing not so far from Jerusalem (near the dead sea).  They were fasting and praying as well as performing baptisms, carefully  studying scriptures, devoting their entire lives to preparing for the Messiah and as near as I can tell all possible.  The had the Levitical priesthood and were officially operating and offering sacrifices at the temple.  No angles came to them?????  Why just the shepherds near Bethlehem????
 
At Bethlehem there were at the time two main things going on.  There was like a seminary school for Scribes and priests and a special group of shepherds that raised sheep for sacrifices at the temple and use of sheep skins for temples scrolls to record scripture.  It is my speculation that it was these shepherds watching the temple sheep that were visited as a sigh to the Jewish leadership class - that they were not worthy.  These temple shepherds were kind of the bottom of the barrel when it came to service status.
 
The Dead Sea scrolls ought to be a wake up call to those that think their efforts to serve G-d according to what they think is G-d's plan according to their understanding of scripture - were left out at the most important time.  We may think our membership in church and faith it scripture is not qualify us for that kind of spiritual blessing that was extended to those shepherds.

My personal studies seem to indicate a few things that might be of interest.  I have often wondered why angles only came to a few shepherds in their fields - especially since a group of devoted followers of the coming of the Messiah knew within 3 years when he would be born were preparing not so far from Jerusalem (near the dead sea).  They were fasting and praying as well as performing baptisms, carefully  studying scriptures, devoting their entire lives to preparing for the Messiah and as near as I can tell all possible.  The had the Levitical priesthood and were officially operating and offering sacrifices at the temple.  No angles came to them?????  Why just the shepherds near Bethlehem????
 
At Bethlehem there were at the time two main things going on.  There was like a seminary school for Scribes and priests and a special group of shepherds that raised sheep for sacrifices at the temple and use of sheep skins for temples scrolls to record scripture.  It is my speculation that it was these shepherds watching the temple sheep that were visited as a sigh to the Jewish leadership class - that they were not worthy.  These temple shepherds were kind of the bottom of the barrel when it came to service status.
 
The Dead Sea scrolls ought to be a wake up call to those that think their efforts to serve G-d according to what they think is G-d's plan according to their understanding of scripture - were left out at the most important time.  We may think our membership in church and faith it scripture is not qualify us for that kind of spiritual blessing that was extended to those shepherds.

My grand-kids - sure seem to have it together as well the young men and young women in my ward.  Two young ladies talked in sacrament meeting last week having just returned from missions.  One from Ukraine the other from Honduras - without question these ladies would be exceptional in any generation.  The two lady missionaries in our ward are wonderful examples and I cannot imagine that anything of value is slipping away in society because of them.  I have full confidence in our younger saints and expect that they will do greater things and contribute more than me an my generation. 
 
Without question the world is changing and with the changes many will be caught up in the great and spacious building.  But I see a very unusual group of youth holding fast to the iron rod and enjoying the fruits of the tree of life.  I see them in greater number that at any time in the entire history of the world.  Thank you -- THANK YOU ALL that dedicate your time and efforts to raising a generation in Zion unlike any other.  :clap:

My grand-kids - sure seem to have it together as well the young men and young women in my ward.  Two young ladies talked in sacrament meeting last week having just returned from missions.  One from Ukraine the other from Honduras - without question these ladies would be exceptional in any generation.  The two lady missionaries in our ward are wonderful examples and I cannot imagine that anything of value is slipping away in society because of them.  I have full confidence in our younger saints and expect that they will do greater things and contribute more than me an my generation. 
 
Without question the world is changing and with the changes many will be caught up in the great and spacious building.  But I see a very unusual group of youth holding fast to the iron rod and enjoying the fruits of the tree of life.  I see them in greater number that at any time in the entire history of the world.  Thank you -- THANK YOU ALL that dedicate your time and efforts to raising a generation in Zion unlike any other.  :clap:

I agree in part.( please forgive me if i'm reading to far into this)
 
There is an underlying trend i've been noticing brought up in church on occasion, it's this idea that all things physical, carnal are bad. People hinting that their bodies are gross and disgusting, their appetites are bad etc.
 
It is the job of the Spiritual to over come the Physical, but that doesn't mean the physical is bad. We got our bodies because they are good. Yes they and physical things can be used improperly, and there are flaws because of the fallen state of the world, but sometimes people need to remember of how physical things are also a blessing, to complement the spirit. 
 
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/93.33?lang=eng#32
The body complements the spirit, to receive a fullness of joy.

So I suddenly find myself between two passionate people having an argument with two different mind sets. As in, there is zero understanding of where the either is coming from.
I find myself becoming the mediator... and I'm just not interested. It's just too stressful.
When is it okay to just back out?

One of the most powerful doctrines of salvation is mentioned in scripture as the doctrine of being whole or complete.   Many times Jesus spoke to individuals and told them that their faith had made them “whole”.  There are two other terms in ancient scripture associated with whole.  Those terms are “perfect” and complete.  Like many doctrines we tend to understand such things from a limited perspective.   It is my honest belief and experience that discipline in the ancient concept of ying and yang helps in understanding being whole or complete.
 
Part of the problem come from the western philosophy of opposing forces as associated with good and evil.  Since we tend to understand such things as opposites we tend to miss the beautiful balance of wholeness that comes through the understanding of ying and yang.   So to understand ying and yang – forget your notions of opposites and competing things.  Think instead of things that complement each other – and the balance of such complementary things or things of dual nature.  Think of two necessary virtues.
 
It may help to give an example.  Strength and tenderness or Justice and compassion and mercy.  Please note that these virtues complement each other and when in balance something very special results.  When out of balance the result is not good.    I believe that balance is the art and doctrine of being whole or perfect.   It is my purpose in this thread to draw attention to things that when in balance brings wholeness, holiness, perfectness and completeness; when out of balance holiness, wholeness, perfectness and completeness becomes unreachable, unattainable and if you will – unnatural.    The balance of ying and yang is a divine doctrine at the heart and core of divine salvation and becoming one with G-d. 
 
I thought to dedicate this thread to understanding ying and yang as dual complementary natures and so list such complementary virtues and how such in balance is good and out of balance is not so good.
 
Male and female
Physical and spiritual
Desire and economy
Passion and compassion
Questions????    Comments???

I believe the error of our argument is the assumption that our spirit is not also subject to the fall.  I would point out that spirits have a proclivity to sin - even in a perfect spiritual state - which is why and how Lucifer fell and drew with him a one third part of the most spiritually advanced and enlightened society ever assembled (that we know about).  Note that this spiritually advanced society had not even a "smidgeon" of physical temptation or draw.   To completely ignore spiritual temptations to sin is to ignore perhaps to the most difficult dangers on the path of eternal life.

Hmmmmmm - insightfull!!!!  having both my parents passed - I find grief associated with their passing as mostly associated with personal selfishness.  Can you share more of your new insight?

If one believes in or accepts the premise of creation ex nihilo then this is not just a very good argument but it is 100% completely rhetorically sound.  Keep in mind ex nihilo means that any and all variable parameters for any individual's creation was 100% the responsibility of the creator and a direct result of his creation.  Not only is the argument sound for the aspect of creation but there is another logical conundrum that must be dealt with.  That is - that G-d knew with certainty exactly how each and every creation would turn out.  If G-d was not 100% okay with the result - why then did he create such individuals with known flawed parameters? 
 
It is this specific failure of every other religion I have studied that has left me in awe and wonderment of the singular consistency of LDS doctrine.  I am also astonished that otherwise good and principled individuals are so willing to swallow this flagrantly obviously flawed doctrine of creation - without honestly seeking a reasonable solution - in order to justify their chosen religion and belief for eternal blessing for them while others burn in hell for being created in a manner in which they have no choice what-so-ever.

If one believes in or accepts the premise of creation ex nihilo then this is not just a very good argument but it is 100% completely rhetorically sound.  Keep in mind ex nihilo means that any and all variable parameters for any individual's creation was 100% the responsibility of the creator and a direct result of his creation.  Not only is the argument sound for the aspect of creation but there is another logical conundrum that must be dealt with.  That is - that G-d knew with certainty exactly how each and every creation would turn out.  If G-d was not 100% okay with the result - why then did he create such individuals with known flawed parameters? 
 
It is this specific failure of every other religion I have studied that has left me in awe and wonderment of the singular consistency of LDS doctrine.  I am also astonished that otherwise good and principled individuals are so willing to swallow this flagrantly obviously flawed doctrine of creation - without honestly seeking a reasonable solution - in order to justify their chosen religion and belief for eternal blessing for them while others burn in hell for being created in a manner in which they have no choice what-so-ever.

Taxes can be theft just as someone in an emergency charges exorbitant amounts for good and services to far exceed the value can be seen as theft.   In the USA we charge 6 times in taxes what is necessary to lift all in poverty - out of poverty.  There are records of hammers costing $3,000.00 in tax payers funds.  In England the richest lady in the country lives on welfare check paid for by taxes - and you do not think that is a kind of theft of forced tax funds????
 
Some would argue that the beggar that stands at a corner begging for money claiming to be a homeless veteran of war that in reality is gathering funds from those more "poor" than them selves and that the beggar in reality has a nice home but uses the funds to party every night - is in their lies a thief at heart.
 
I contend that a government officials that take $100 dollars promising to take care of poor and build roads and such that keeps $50 for themselves then gives $25 to their friends and finely gives $10 to poor and $15 to build roads and such things - is indeed both a thief and a lair in their heart and their actions.

Taxes can be theft just as someone in an emergency charges exorbitant amounts for good and services to far exceed the value can be seen as theft.   In the USA we charge 6 times in taxes what is necessary to lift all in poverty - out of poverty.  There are records of hammers costing $3,000.00 in tax payers funds.  In England the richest lady in the country lives on welfare check paid for by taxes - and you do not think that is a kind of theft of forced tax funds????
 
Some would argue that the beggar that stands at a corner begging for money claiming to be a homeless veteran of war that in reality is gathering funds from those more "poor" than them selves and that the beggar in reality has a nice home but uses the funds to party every night - is in their lies a thief at heart.
 
I contend that a government officials that take $100 dollars promising to take care of poor and build roads and such that keeps $50 for themselves then gives $25 to their friends and finely gives $10 to poor and $15 to build roads and such things - is indeed both a thief and a lair in their heart and their actions.

Utopia is a myth to all those that think someone else need or must to provide it for them.  If you think someone other than you must change in order for utopia to occur - you believe a utopian myth.

Utopia is a myth to all those that think someone else need or must to provide it for them.  If you think someone other than you must change in order for utopia to occur - you believe a utopian myth.

Not right - Paul was ordained under the direction of Apostles acting as the proxy for Christ - Jesus only ordained Apostles - he personally trained them it is was his Apostles that were present at the "last supper" - not every single one of the disciples were invited.  We also have records that when an apostle died that the remaining Apostles and only Apostles (not every single one of the disciples) cast lots to select another apostle.  When Paul spoke of a "royal priesthood" - that was an explicit reference to a kingdom - A specific kingdom organized and operating as Jesus left it to be run and organized - the great apostasy changed that organization and did away with apostles and likewise the priesthood Jesus gave his apostles as well as the right to preside at gatherings of congregations. 
 
 
What do you mean by different things???  A high priest is appointed to preside over gatherings of other priesthood members when they meet.  The reason Paul wrote letters (epistles) was because he was acting as the presiding high priest over those to whom we wrote to.  But he was not the only one presiding - some of the other Apostles acting as high priests also gave presiding lessons to congregations. 
 
 
Jesus also tells us that he was presided over by "The Father"
 
 
Your confusion is because you do not understand the covenant established through a kingdom.  Not living under a Supreme Suzerain and not understanding how servant vassal law was anciently established - you are making assumptions of ancient terms in scripture based on modern social political constructs - which I do not think apply the way you think they do.  The relationship of a servant vassal to a Supreme Suzerain was also lost in the great apostasy in order to men to assume control of the kingdom that rightfully belongs to Jesus.  Thus he is the presiding authority.  The question is - in his absents who has right to act as his proxy and preside over congregations of his disciples?  If you read the scriptures of the New Testament - you will discover that Jesus appointed his Apostles and his apostles acted as presiding authority over all the true disciples of Christ.
 
What Jesus appointed as recorded in scripture was changed - you have every right to align yourself with those changes - by what ever reason you want.  I have chosen to reject such changes as apostasy.  I believe the the prophesies that in the last days that there will be a "restoration"

It does not seem to matter that much where I visit - but I seem to find two different elements of our human society.  I will call one element that part of society that draws of their livelihood from the abundance of nature and those that draw of their livelihood from the pride of humanity.
 
Those that plant and labor in gardens or similar such things always seem happy to share of what they receive for their labors.  But those that invest and deal with money and work in institutions of money always seem happy to keep and not share of what they receive for their labors. 

This thread reminds me of a post I saw a while ago in another site where this woman was asking for suggestions how to help this very poor family. And she stated "They are so poor, they cannot even afford gas for their car!".
 
I chuckled a little bit and said to myself: Boy, people NEED to travel more for heaven's sake. And yes, people talk from experience but please let's not generalize  because if your only measure is what you see in the US as "poor", then man.. you are clueless about what poverty really is.

As some posters have offered opinions - we are dealing with speculation.  The concept of a wormhole was invented by Carl Sagan to create intrigue for a novel titled "Contact" that was later made into a movie.  If anyone is really interested I can explain why the initial concept included the inclusion of two black holes or we can explorer together theoretical speculations.  The point of a wormhole is to adjoin two distant points in space time.  If we use this as a standard definition the probable existence of wormholes takes on the possibility that there are types and classes of wormholes.  Some of which could join points not only in our universe but different universes - including universes of differing dimensions. 
 
The grand problem of wormholes is stability.  Quantum physics does support a possibility of wormholes but maintaining stability of a wormhole for any practice use is theoretically impossible.  In short - all the mathematics that leaves any possibility for any currently conceived wormhole requires an incredible amount of energy for any kind of control - that prevents any intended use of a wormhole.
 
Is there a possibility that Joseph Smith saw divine beings using a wormhole to travel vast distances?   I personally find the possibly far move believable than considering possibilities of magic that breaks down the "order" by which G-d creates and governs his creations.

Wow anatess - it has been such a long time since I have found something you have posted to disagree with - but alas I have finely found one.
 
 
Actually I think it is possible to sin without knowledge - for me the question is rather about accountability.   Seminary S and I have gone some rounds on this subject.   But I believe that small children can sin and do.  I have both seen it occur and experienced it in my youth - of which I still have recollection of before reaching the age of accountability, when it became necessary for me to repent of my sins.  It is my belief that children are not accountable for sin but are given special dispensation of being forgiven of sin through the atonement of Christ.
 
We are warned in scripture that under specific condition the sins of children can be rested on the heads of the parents.  Also that the sins of a society can rest on those that fail in their appointment of G-d to sound a warning.   As a holder of the priesthood - this is of particular concern to me.