Church is not a social club - what does that mean to you?

[Misshalfway]

Paul in his letter to the Church at Corinth complained of how people were coming to the Sacrament or the Breaking of Bread.

So the problem in one degree or another goes back 2000 years.

The Church at Corinth had a problem about how people were coming to the sacrament, but their problems were much more severe in comparison to what you are mentioning. The problem-if I read the initial post correctly-- is one of when to have a time of deep reverence and respect and when it is ok to meet and greet friends and build up your faith community with fellowship.

I am a Roman Catholic and not a member of the LDS Church, but on what the church should be about-if your are talking about the physical church and the worship service itself which we call liturgy,--- it should be approached with deep respect and reverence.

We have a social hall outside our church for people to gather after the service where they can socialize, exchange recipes, etc. Our church has many church activities which promote fellowship of the members. The worship service is approached with deep reverence.

Unfortunately in many Catholic churches, people no longer come in Sunday best. Some look like they are squeezing in church between rounds of golf. I see that as a trend in many Christian churches nationwide.

As an outsider or "investigator"-what I see as one of the strengths of the LDS church-is Sunday Best. I hope you keep up Sunday Best. Sunday Best can foster a greater reverence on approaching worship especially on reception of the Sacrament.

-Carol

I love the Sunday best idea too. Except I don't think my son's agree with me! :) Fitting them with ties and white shirts when they would rather wear a Scoobydoo shirt. It's all up hill. But I still love seeing them looking all shiney and spiffy!

PS. Hope your H is doing well.

[pam]

I think it depends on how you really define "social club."

When I first got divorced my oldest was 9 years old. I worked from home. My only social outlet was church. Was I using it as a social club. Yes in many ways I was. Having no other contact really with the outside world, I looked forward to the social aspect of Church.

[Guest Username-Removed]

In a way this thread reflects the disconnect that many divorced members feel when they are ... divorced. We do use the church as our social outlet. Many of us have to. Most of us work long hours to make ends meet. When we finally get a break from doing laundry, dishes, cleaning house, and paying the bills, its SUNDAY! And when Home Teachers seem too busy to actually talk, and other members only have time to say hello, we use things like this forum, or travel distances to be with old friends.

When I was baptized, the person who spoke said, "Welcome to the Family". At first I thought he was talking about his family, which I already felt I was welcome in his family. But looking back, I realized his meaning was much more.

When I go to church I have brothers and sisters and father figures that I simply didnt have in my personal life before I was baptized. I think some members maybe dont realize just how other members may look up to them.

[Misshalfway]

To me there is a big difference between being social/having a social life and membership in a country club. I don't think there is anything wrong with having a social arm of church membership. Goodness! It was designed and still is designed to connect us. Satan, in his infinite abilities, isolates us. Maybe with sin or offense or not needing others, etc etc. I think the social effort of the church is absolutely a direct defense against such tactics.

Social/country clubs on the other hand, are all about exclusion. There are more that aren't invited to the party than are.

I think in the church, the lines get blurry depending on the attitudes of the members. Perhaps some of us have dealt with cliques in the church. Perhaps some wards are simply more inclusive than others. Each ward, I would guess, has their own unique challenges as we all fight the influence of Satan.

I am reminded of the BofM. After hundreds of years of peace and righteousness, the people were described as the most happy. And then, what started to break it all up? Expensive apparel and the attitude that one is better than another.

I really think that is the idea behind this thread. When we interact together, how inclusive are we? Or do we only interact with those who are like us or agree with us or make us feel better than the rest?

Edited June 28, 2008 by Misshalfway

[Iggy]

On Sunday, I too look forward to seeing, greeting, shaking hands with and hugging members of my Ward Family.

Before Sacrament, as I go into the Chapel I look to see who is there, quietly acknowledge and greet members and make my way to my seat.

As I reach Gospel Doctrine class and find a seat, I then greet and talk with members. Here I socialize, still keeping a reverent voice. There are members I am quite fond of and Sunday is one of the few times I actually see them.

RS is another socializing opportunity as we have two GD classes. Thus the Sisters who attend the other class come in and I get to visit with them. Our Ward might be unique in that as soon as the RS Presidency sits down at the front of the room, we stop our visiting and get ready for "business".

I no longer am able to attend any of the weeknight activities because I work until 10 PM. So I really miss out on those Socializing opportunities. I really miss them too.

My husband works Saturdays so I go to church activities on those days alone.

Humans are socializing creatures- LDS more so than most. What other international group of people have mastered Pot Luck and the serving of Jello?? I have only met one Jello dish that I didn't like (had tofu in it instead of cottage cheese )

The last social function I went to was a Pot Luck Barbeque held in a local park. There were four "Picnics" going on at the same time, only one was LDS.

By the time I arrived, all four corners of the park area were filled with people. As I observed each group in my slow walk to my Ward picnic, I noticed that even though the children in my Ward were running and having fun, the young adults visiting, and chasing some of the little ones, the adults mingling, talking, laughing and tossing a huge beach ball about, my group were the calmest and a bit more modest than the other three.

The differences were the modest clothing, no alcoholic beverages being consumed, and a definitely cleaner talking, joking and jesting than the other three groups.

Even in an entirely social atmosphere- we, LDS, are still more respectful of each other in actions, words and deeds.

When we stopped to have the blessing of the food- the other three groups quieted down for the last half of the prayer.

In the chapel, whether it be Sacrament or cleaning on a Saturday, we are reverent and respectful. When I am in there with a cleaning group, we chit-chat and socialize, but we do so in a respectful way and we use our Sunday voices.

The only place where we actually do get loud and perhaps wild and crazy is the multipurpose room. You can actually hear the difference when the RS sisters are loudly talking in the MP room and as they cross the thresh hold into the hallways their voices drop.

As for Social Club, do you mean like a Country Club? No, Church is not a Country Club. At a Country Club, members are selective and not at all equal. At Church, all members are equal and we are not selective.

[Palerider]

While I was serving as branch Pres....I loved getting to the church early and standing at the door as the other ward memebrs came in for their Sacrament mtg and greeting them. I would often get asked why are you here so early when your meeting doesn't start till 11am. I would just laugh and say....I came here to see you....

[prisonchaplain]

Too much fellowship, not enough service, too much entertainment, not enough mission, too much gluttony, not enough...bah, stop the humbug! One way people will know we are Christians is by our love. If we bring them to the meetings and people are cold, or indifferent, or obviously do not know each other well...how will they know the love of God if we cannot even show them the love of believers? More potlucks, more socials...why, I'll bet (not gamble) that these activities actually foster greater missions, evangelization, and general service.

[Guest Username-Removed]

I new friend sent me this scripture and I believe it relates ...

Mosiah 2:41

41 And moreover, I would desire that ye should consider on the blessed and happy state of those that keep the commandments of God. For behold, they are blessed in all things, both temporal and spiritual; and if they hold out faithful to the end they are received into heaven, that thereby they may dwell with God in a state of never-ending happiness. O remember, remember that these things are true; for the Lord God hath spoken it.

There are times when we are humble, and respectful. But when i think of church and/or the gospel, I think its about being happy as mentioned in the above scripture. Sharing that happiness through social activities seems only normal to me.

Edited June 29, 2008 by WordFLOOD

[StrawberryFields]

As I think back I have met my best friends at church and I don't feel bad about it at all! I live in Utah and believe it or not every one of my neighbors are not memebers of the church. The ones I have served with in the church as the ones I know best. There is something to be said for serving in callings where you have meeting and go to another persons home for VT or HT. When we open up our home to people is where we really share ourselves IMO. I have even met and become close friends when I have posted on the internet on this website.

What makes a friendship in simple terms.

Sharing

Caring

Common Interests

Respect

Support

Love

I am sure there are more but we can do all of those things while sharing the gospel IMO.

Edited June 29, 2008 by Strawberry Fields

[Tough Grits]

...The ones I have served with in the church as the ones I know best. There is something to be said for serving in callings where you have meeting and go to another persons home for VT or HT. When we open up our home to people is where we really share ourselves IMO...

Thank you for this post!

When I lived in middle Georgia, my very first VT companion was Stacy. She became my best friend.

Eventually, they switched us and gave us new VT partners. My next VT companion, Kelli, also became my best friend.

How fortunate to be able to make such strong friendships and loving sisterhoods with those that I have been called to serve with.

When I moved back to my home ward, in backwoods southern Georgia, I was afraid that I would never again have such a close friendship as I found with Stacy and Kelli. Well, luckily Heavenly Father blessed me again. I ended up finding another best friend in Mandi. She is my polar opposite, as she is quiet, reserved, and shy. I am loud, out-going, and extroverted. Yet she and I have been able to find a deep and lasting connection, just as I found with Kelli and Stacy.

I look for friends in all those I come in contact with, even if it is via the internet. But I consider it an added blessing when a friend also shares this gospel in common with me.

[ruthiechan]

Thank you everyone for your responses. I have found them interesting.

At Church, and when I say Church I mean our Sunday services, have you ever seen someone skip Sunday School so they can chat instead? I have, and feel that it's inappropriate (though once in a while there are exceptions, I remember asking someone if they were okay because they looked so unhappy and this sister just started talking, so we walked around the church building a few times, afterwards she felt - and looked - much better and was able to enjoy RS).

Ever been in a ward that was clique-y? I have.

Ever been in a "rich" ward with pride issues? I have.

Such behaviour is exclusive and thusly inappropriate.

I recall going to Church, staying afterwards, being nice to people, and still I had not one friend. I was so distraught, I remember talking to my mother about my grief in this. She said that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is perfect, but the people in it, and running it are not. I had a hard time being motivated to go to Church when there was no one there who would be happy to see me. I became semi-active. The only thing that motivated me to go at all was knowing that the Lord wanted me there. Eventually I found friendships, but it took a long time. Everyone can feel alone sometimes at Church, but usually those feelings are lies given to us by Satan. But I had not a single friend, so I really was alone at Church.

After much pondering, this is what I really mean when I say, "Church is not a social club." But everyone has different thoughts and ideas on what that means as represented in this thread. Thusly we need to find other ways to express these ideas with less ambiguous terminology. Maybe country club would be better? I dunno, what do you think?

Here's what spurred this topic, a gal at Church said that church is not a social club, if you want social you can get that at a sorority. Well, I got upset about it and said it was not the same there's no Gospel influence etc. She clarified saying that people become inactive because we're not social enough during our Sunday meetings and are basically coming to church for the wrong reasons. While I probably could have handled my part better I do feel that if I took her wrong others probably did too and remained silent.

[Iggy]

Too much fellowship, not enough service, too much entertainment, not enough mission, too much gluttony, not enough...bah, stop the humbug! One way people will know we are Christians is by our love. If we bring them to the meetings and people are cold, or indifferent, or obviously do not know each other well...how will they know the love of God if we cannot even show them the love of believers? More potlucks, more socials...why, I'll bet (not gamble) that these activities actually foster greater missions, evangelization, and general service.

:thumbsup: Two thumbs up for you PC.

[RadioactiveWolfboy]

I go to Church to be spiritually uplifted. Sometimes it is hard to feel the Spirit when people are talking and socializing during a lesson. For instance, this past sunday the 2nd counselor in the Bishopric was teaching us about the wards emergency preparedness plan, and in the row beside me and behind me several people were having a chat, this included a few leaders in our ward. I also noticed that alot of people congregate in the chapel talking before our sacrament meeting starts, and usually afterwards. My Wife and I make a great effort to arrive early and sit down. If we choose to talk, we do so outside the chapel. I would seem that many lessons on reverence go unheaded by even leaders in the ward. I don't hold this against them though. I don't think that many people realize that reverence is a key part of taking the sacrament and attending our meetings. I'd rather hear the lesson or speaker than the people talking the row(s) behind me.

Rich

[WANDERER]

My friend who was staying with me asked if I would take her to church...I wasn't a member of her church, but it was fine with me to do so. Anyway, we never got out of the car, just sat and talked outside the church. She realised I was having some problems and just started talking...she brought up a topic I wasn't expecting...and as it turned out she was spot on about what was bothering me. It's a bit odd parking in full view of a congregation during a meeting and I did ask her what the go was and how people would respond to that, but she really didn't care. You know, things are not always what they appear to be.

Some people are more Christian inwardly than outwardly.

[VisionOfLehi]

Reading this thread again reminds me of one aspect of the "social club" kind of thing that DOES bother me.

People sticking around the chapel in the "between" time to chat, and not quietly.

There's been plenty of times when I was trying hard to hear the music being played but it was drowned out by chatter.

[Guest Username-Removed]

Certainly, socializing inside the chapel before the meeting starts is not the place to socialize. However, at the entrance, in the foyer, or immediatly afterwards (as long as there isnt another ward coming in) is perfectly fine and shouldnt be discouraged. Socializing during class times is not good either. If this happens, a tactful comment to someone in the bishopric or to the sunday school president will help that from happening again. Also, knowing that, there is an exerisize of being christlike as well. If anger is generated when someone is doing something like this, then thats probably an opportunity to see where thats coming from. We had an elderly lady that was hard of hearing. When she talked, she always was loud. Everyone in our ward was very sympathetic. I dont think one person that was ever angry at her.... how could they be?

[abqfriend]

I am a Roman Catholic. We have our church which is where we have our worship. Reverance is a key. People come early to pray and meditate. There is little or no talking in our church. The sacrament is considered very holy to us and once the service starts-reverance is the key. Members have been asked to refrain from talking among themselves. This request is printed in our bulletin. If members wish to speak to each other-they are asked to do so outside the church proper. We have fellowship halls for talking and fellowship. Our church is strictly for worship of God as we understand God. It is not a place for chatter or catching up on the local news.

I have never attended an LDS church, but when I do, one of the things I would look for in the Sacrament Service is a sense fo deep reverance for the sacrament.

-Carol

I go to Church to be spiritually uplifted. Sometimes it is hard to feel the Spirit when people are talking and socializing during a lesson. For instance, this past sunday the 2nd counselor in the Bishopric was teaching us about the wards emergency preparedness plan, and in the row beside me and behind me several people were having a chat, this included a few leaders in our ward. I also noticed that alot of people congregate in the chapel talking before our sacrament meeting starts, and usually afterwards. My Wife and I make a great effort to arrive early and sit down. If we choose to talk, we do so outside the chapel. I would seem that many lessons on reverence go unheaded by even leaders in the ward. I don't hold this against them though. I don't think that many people realize that reverence is a key part of taking the sacrament and attending our meetings. I'd rather hear the lesson or speaker than the people talking the row(s) behind me.

Rich

[Misshalfway]

I am a Roman Catholic. We have our church which is where we have our worship. Reverance is a key. People come early to pray and meditate. There is little or no talking in our church. The sacrament is considered very holy to us and once the service starts-reverance is the key. Members have been asked to refrain from talking among themselves. This request is printed in our bulletin. If members wish to speak to each other-they are asked to do so outside the church proper. We have fellowship halls for talking and fellowship. Our church is strictly for worship of God as we understand God. It is not a place for chatter or catching up on the local news.

I have never attended an LDS church, but when I do, one of the things I would look for in the Sacrament Service is a sense fo deep reverance for the sacrament.

-Carol

I went to a Christmas Mass once. I was very impressed by the reverence. And I loved it when each person turned and said things to each other. I felt a deep sense of worship there. It was a good experience.

[VisionOfLehi]

Certainly, socializing inside the chapel before the meeting starts is not the place to socialize. However, at the entrance, in the foyer, or immediatly afterwards (as long as there isnt another ward coming in) is perfectly fine and shouldnt be discouraged. Socializing during class times is not good either. If this happens, a tactful comment to someone in the bishopric or to the sunday school president will help that from happening again. Also, knowing that, there is an exerisize of being christlike as well. If anger is generated when someone is doing something like this, then thats probably an opportunity to see where thats coming from. We had an elderly lady that was hard of hearing. When she talked, she always was loud. Everyone in our ward was very sympathetic. I dont think one person that was ever angry at her.... how could they be?

Back home they played music after Sacrament until people cleared out. And then there was prelude music before Priesthood. Priesthood was usually easier to hear, though, because it was less people than the full ward. But generally tough to here anyway.

I do have my own solution, though, and some might call it sacrilegious, but my iPod has a bunch of hymns and gospel music on it.

People can't complain about that, though! Not with their PDA's with their scriptures and lesson books on them!

[Moksha]

I think the process of being good to one another is profoundly social. This is provided in the fellowshipping of members. The degree to which this is missing is evidence that something has gone wrong in this process.

[prospectmom]

Okay I get all that is being said but we are to fellowship visitors and new and old members isn't that socializing?????????

[rameumptom]

There has to be a sense of Sacred Space, that is often lost in our desire to socialize. Too often I see people standing and yakking in the chapel until the bishopric member arises and begins the meeting. I have no problem with people visiting in the foyer, etc., but the chapel needs to be considered sacred space. People need to be to the meeting early, and settled in quietly, so that the Spirit can reside and be present from the moment the Bishop stands up to begin.

People would be amazed at how little it takes to chase the Spirit away from a meeting. Or at least lessen the spiritual effect.

The key is we CAN and Should socialize, but we need to be wise in when and where it occurs. We would not socialize in the middle of the endowment, but for some reason many think it okay to do so in the middle of administering the Sacrament. Clearly, there is a disconnect.

One ward in Las Vegas I've visited was so loud, it was difficult to hear the speakers. I actually had a father speak in a normal loud voice to his son about anything and everything during Sacrament, sitting right behind me.

One ward in Salt Lake I once visited, Priesthood meeting was conducted in the gym. The Young Men's presidency stood in the back with several of the young men, joking and chatting during the hymns and announcements.

In my ward, there was a couple that allowed their two young daughters to dance in the aisles during the hymns. As cute as it was, it was distracting from the Spirit many of us sought to have with us.

All of this socializing needs to be done in the proper place and time. Too many LDS miss out on spiritual experiences, either because they are too intent on socializing themselves, or someone else's strenuous efforts cause the Spirit to flee.

[VisionOfLehi]

I think socializing is more "chatting." Casual conversation.

Fellowshipping is getting to know someone. Making them welcome, giving them a place. It has the intent of showing them love, and not just "talking."

Edit:

Rame: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, as I said unto my disciples, where two or three are gathered together in my name, as touching one thing, behold, there will I be in the midst of them—even so am I in the midst of you."

The Spirit isn't chased away, but our focus on it, is!

Edited July 2, 2008 by VisionOfLehi

[rameumptom]

If we are gathered "in his name" that means we are focusing upon Him in our conversation. If two or three are gathered to talk about the football game, then it doesn't matter if the prelude music is playing in the background, the Spirit will not attend.

[VisionOfLehi]

If we are gathered "in his name" that means we are focusing upon Him in our conversation. If two or three are gathered to talk about the football game, then it doesn't matter if the prelude music is playing in the background, the Spirit will not attend.

I'm sure in an entire ward there's at least 2 people there who want to focus on Him!

Edit: Would just like to point out that one of the points of that promise is that even amidst the turmoil of the world, persecutors, unrighteous, etc., the Spirit can still be with those faithful. We don't have to dismay because of others... The Lord will still bless us.

Edited July 2, 2008 by VisionOfLehi