Did the womens movement kill the family unit?

[Mullenite]

Self explanatory title.... Discuss...

[WANDERER]

I think it's a symptom not a cause.

[MorningStar]

I think selfishness in general killed the family unit. (Well, some of them.)

[Jbs2763]

maybe kinda sorta...that is a tough one

however i am positive that video killed the radio star

[MaidservantX]

No, it didn't.

There have been challenges to the family unit since Cain and Abel. It's not a new struggle.

The "women's movement" may need to be defined. What exactly do you mean by that? Not everyone may have the same concept of it. Then I can answer whether it "killed" the family unit.

If you ask me, I see more and more that the hearts of the fathers are turning to the children among all good people on the earth. Even if the human with the uterus isn't doing the ironing anymore.

[pam]

I don't think it did. Wasn't the women's movement more about equal pay for equal work?

[DigitalShadow]

Who says the family unit is dead anyway?

[MorningStar]

He did.

[Elphaba]

Here's what bothers me today.

In the '70s, women, and I include myself, worked very hard and took chances to destroy that pigeonhole women always found themselves in, as their roles were so set in stone by society.

One of the ways women and men worked so hard to accomplish this was to create opportunities for women to become better educated, and if they chose, to find work that they enjoyed and paid well. And though the glass ceiling is still enmeshed in steel, many women obviously have a world open to them that was not possible prior to the movement.

Yet today, we have young, professional women in their twenties and thirties, with careers they love, insisting they are not feminists.

In other words, they deride the same women who made sure they could get the careers they love.

I get very weary of that.

Another thought: I've mentioned how my mother works at a women's shelter.

Before the women's movement, that shelter did NOT exist.

Elphaba

[Moksha]

The emphasis on the nuclear family may have damaged the extended-clan family unit, but the nuclear family is alive and well. For those who do not fit into this classification well, perhaps more thought should be placed on alternative family units. Everyone should have a place of reference and support.

The Women's Movement was designed to promote the idea that women should have equal rights with men. That is a concept I happen to support.

Barefoot, pregnant, ignorant and chained to the kitchen stove is not a pleasant way to go through life. To the extent that women now have more options is a testament to the continuing effectiveness of the Women's Movement, even in quarters where it is not appreciated.

[WANDERER]

Elphie...I think that may have to do with not measuring up to the title or just not measuring up to feminist standards.

My mother's silent generation...I'm an early Xer. My mother certainly didn't expect me to get a degree...get a job at sixteen response. Secretary was her hope. Since I wanted a degree she said teaching works well with motherhood...you'll get holidays. Sigh. She stayed at home until 25 and handed her pay to her parents...so her comments were kind of forward thinking I guess.

My first ten years in the workforce were with the women that were sacked for motherhood (1978 changed that) coming back about ten years later (early 90's...interest rates were high then). This was a world where single women still found it very hard to purchase a flat on their own...why would you want to do that? A funny decade to work in where drawing pictures of doctors usually got a drawing of a male and long discussions on stereotyping and changing the language to be more gender equitable.

No more feminine nouns thankyou...losing the ess tags.

The older women I work with (early sixties) tell me there were once separate staffrooms for women to eat their lunch in...they didn't mix. And still in 2000 a boss at the pub commented that a woman that was being harrassed and stalked deserved it for the way she dressed. I work with multiple generations with lots of different viewpoints on what women's roles should or shouldn't be...some still refuse to entertain the idea of part time work for mothers of young children and co-sharing jobs (children need consistency theory...having two teachers is confusing for them...not really..they generally work a lot of overtime to prove that it can be done successfully, but whatever/ some justify saying no by commenting that it's hard to get them back into permanent fulltime when they want to...regardless of the fact that they know that and still want to...it's all up to the boss, male and generally not all that enthused about the seventies and more thrilled about the fifties and sixties).

Bridgitte Jones without the ending would be a neat way of summarising career choices over life choices...I transferred a lot with work...because it's cheaper to pay relocation costs for a single than a family. Great. Two to three years in any given location..you're either married rural by then or...transferred. Someone has to I guess.

Thankful for what has been achieved...yes...but I don't give myself the title of feminist. Probably a little jaded. Does my career without family equal a life...or am I way too spoilt and just don't know it. Probably...I get equal pay...kind of...the economy is different...it sorts itself out in terms of tax breaks and government family iniatives...that's okay. I am enthused about the women's movement focussing on family friendly...yay for that. I think that's where it's always been headed. Happy to cheer GenY on.

Edited July 28, 2008 by WANDERER

[usdudeinuk]

The woman's movement was never a religious movement, in my mind.

Women were trampled in earlier western society. So I belive it has made things better for them. Nothing has changed. You need to remember is women have earned money for the family as they have done for 1000s of years, but because the farm doesn't provide our income and it has to be from an exterior source the TV version of stay-at-home-mom seems to have left. This is not the women's movement but the structure of society.

If you are referring to Sonja Johnson thinking, this is a matter well beyond the scope of this thread.

[VisionOfLehi]

Satan has been working to destroy the family unit since the first man and women to walk this earth.

The Great Plan of Happiness is all about families. It's so pivotal that it must needs be the thing the Adversary works hardest to destroy.

If you want to point fingers, point them at him.

[Palerider]

I think what hurt the family the most started in the 70"s....when alot of Mom's had to leave home to work in order to get by....

[hordak]

I think it depends on what part of the women movement.

Suffrage. OK nothing wrong with giving women the right to vote.

Free choice. All sorts of problems

Equal pay. Depending on the situation. I don't think women should be given equal pay if they work for a company that gives maternity leave and denies fathers paternity leave.

Working outside the home. This problem being a homemaker is a thankless job. Not that it doesn't have it's own reward but in how many other jobs do you double and triple your workload without an increase in pay, and get less free time. How many other jobs are you on the clock 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Plus society (maybe as a result of the womens movement) doesn't put much stock in it as a "real" job.

I think if there was more appreciation and effort put in by the husbands , fathers and my wife there might be less need to get outside fulfillment by joining the rat race.

[RachelleDrew]

Equal pay. Depending on the situation. I don't think women should be given equal pay if they work for a company that gives maternity leave and denies fathers paternity leave.

Wow, that's an interesting way of looking at it. Sure I believe that men should be allowed paternity leave, but come on. Denying one group to justify the denial of another is not right. Besides, most maternity leaves in my area are unpaid, even if you have a job that requires a degree. All they promise you is that your job will still be there when you return after 6 weeks.

As for the actual topic, if you do the same work as anybody else, you should get paid the same as anybody else. I have no idea why it was even in question for so long, it's not exactly brain surgery. The women's movement in it's original incarnation was meant to make things equal, nothing more nothing less.

I think that like a lot of civil rights movements, the feminist movement has gone a bit overboard in the past few years. Many self-proclaimed "feminists" today think that traditional women are insulting to the movement. This is where I have a problem with modern feminism.

Is the women's movement killing the family unit? I say no. There are far more pressing issues that lead to a family's breakup than a mother who doesn't want to live her life in the kitchen.

[Jbs2763]

I think it depends on what part of the women movement.

Equal pay. Depending on the situation. I don't think women should be given equal pay if they work for a company that gives maternity leave and denies fathers paternity leave.

.

thankfully i never ran into that situation when i was running hotels.....desk clerks are one at a time employees.. if i had someone that took materity leave, id of had to hire someone for 6 weeks then fire them....or let them go, and no one would take a gig that requires about a week of training for a month

[WANDERER]

Well lots of things went on in the sixties. Because you had to resign when you were married...some women didn't. Scandalous. Of course you didn't publicly live this..if people assumed and called you Mrs Whatever... correcting them was considered indelicate and it was a social nicety to pretend you didn't know of these things even if you suspected or to pretend with great chivalry even if you were told pointblank. So women continued to work. You resigned when you were pregnant. You had to. No explanation. And...then you went back to working. They didn't have to pay you a full wage. And technically you weren't married, so you could still *legally* work...providing you were discreet about it. Of course, it wasn't ideal...they had to fight adoption of their children...refusing all sedatives and painkillers during and after childbirth because that's when they would get you to sign the forms.

[hordak]

Wow, that's an interesting way of looking at it. Sure I believe that men should be allowed paternity leave, but come on. Denying one group to justify the denial of another is not right. Besides, most maternity leaves in my area are unpaid, even if you have a job that requires a degree. All they promise you is that your job will still be there when you return after 6 weeks.

.

I'm all about equality. If paternity leave is unpaid then sure no problem. But someone who works 240 hours less then their coworkers doesn't deserve the same compensation.On an individual basis.Not all women in general since they all don't have kids.

[Truegrits]

Originally Posted by hordak

Equal pay. Depending on the situation. I don't think women should be given equal pay if they work for a company that gives maternity leave and denies fathers paternity leave.

Some companies do give fathers leave...but looking at it in a practical sense; it is the mother that needs to recoup from the childbirth process, whether natural or surgical. It is the mother that does the breast feeding. So while it is nice if the father gets a leave also, it is not as practical/necessary as the mother getting it...

[hordak]

Some companies do give fathers leave...but looking at it in a practical sense; it is the mother that needs to recoup from the childbirth process, whether natural or surgical. It is the mother that does the breast feeding. So while it is nice if the father gets a leave also, it is not as practical/necessary as the mother getting it...

It doesn't take 6 weeks to recoup from surgery.At least cesarean, i don't have any natural born kids.Breast feeding isn't necessary, preferential but not necessary.

That being said i have on problem with giving women paternity leave.I think it is very important. But getting the same salary while taking more time off because they choose to have kids in not right.

[StrawberryFields]

Like VOL said I think it is Satan.

I also believe that it is selfishness and believing the grass is greener on the other side.

[Guest HEthePrimate]

Well, the family unit is far from dead, so the answer would have to be 'no.'

As far as the women's movement goes, I don't see how gender equality could possibly threaten the family. Seems to me that it's when one gender insists on having more power/privilege than the other that the relationship is in trouble.

HEP

[Misshalfway]

I think immorality has hurt the family more than feminism. Unwed mothers.....fatherlessness......and then all the poverty and educational and health issues that arise out of such choices.

[RachelleDrew]

It doesn't take 6 weeks to recoup from surgery.At least cesarean, i don't have any natural born kids.Breast feeding isn't necessary, preferential but not necessary..

I think a lot of that depends on the doctor and your pregnancy. I wasn't even allowed to drive until 6 weeks after my csection. Much less go to work, my doctor literally wouldn't give me the clearance for it until 7 weeks after my son was born and even then I was put on restrictions. Not that it really mattered as I didn't return to my workplace anyway.