Article about "Sexual Sin"

[Jamie123]

In the past I've had several quite lengthy exchanges with Vort (and others) on the position of sexual immorality in the hierarchy of sin. My attempts to put it in perspective (as I see it, given my Anglican background) have sometimes been taken as attempts to say that it's "no big deal". This article explains (somewhat better than I could) the kind of position I take on this:

Sexual Sin: Is it the Worst Kind of Sin? by guest author Joel Doxxa

He puts it best when he says:

...we know that all sin is equal in God’s eyes. ...what we’re doing, I think, is trying to dial down the sexual sin, when what we should be doing, in part, is ratcheting up in our minds the hideous effects of the other sins.

Of course I know there's a passage in the Book of Mormon (Alma, I believe) which puts sexual sin in the "big three" (along with murder and "denying the Holy Spirit"). I don't myself believe the Book of Mormon - if I did I would have joined the LDS Church long ago (assuming they'd have had me!) - but I know most people who post here do believe it so I'm not expecting any converts to this way of thinking. But just as many non-LDS people misunderstand the Mormon position, a great many Mormons misunderstand the positions of other faiths. It doesn't hurt for any of us to look at things from a different perspective from time to time.

[P.S. Now I come to think of it, I did once say that I thought pride was the worst sin of all, which rather contradicts the "all sins are equal" idea. I still sort-of believe this, not because I think pride is any worse in God's eyes, but because "being proud" alienates us from other people and is one of the most insidious and difficult things to give up.]

[P.P.S. Having thought about it a bit more, I think I can begin to see where critics of the "all sins are equal" idea are coming from: It would be easy for someone in the middle of an extra-marital affair to say to himself "well, it's no worse than anyone else's sin, so why pick on me?" In a way he would be right, but it wouldn't help him in the long run. He (and everyone else for that matter) needs to repent.]

Edited June 2, 2009 by Jamie123
Added some additional thoughts.

[Moksha]

Limiting mistakes and wrongdoing to only human sexuality seems to miss the mark on helping us stay on a righteous pathway. The good thing is, that when morality falls short, ethics will set things right.

:)

[the Ogre]

See, sin is the only thing on earth that doesn’t adhere to the Laws of Thermodynamics. There’s no friction with sin, so no energy is ever lost, and the consequences get bigger the longer it goes unchecked. The tiniest little lie, or story, or even wiggle of an eyebrow—you could power a church schism with it!

I don't agree with this at all. Sin is not some perpetual motion machine. Eventually sin grinds the sinner down until spiritually the person is in a state of entropic spirituality, spiritually comatose, or spiritually dead. In my opinion, this spiritual death affects the rest of the individual as well, intellectually and physically.

[Islander]

In other circles we call this slow/small variation from truth "a one degree of inferential variation." If I can make you change course just one degree, in time you will be thousands of miles away from course/truth.

Ogre is absolutely right. The end result of sin is spiritual death and complete estrangement from God, His word, Spirit and ultimately His Kingdom. There is no scale for sins. We erroneously tend to equate social consequences with spiritual ones. So, in our minds stealing is a greater sin than sexual transgression. But it is not so. We have trivialized sex and removed all social constrains where sexual behavior is no longer the subject of morality or ethical concerns for most of society. The effort to drive God out of the public square has nothing to do with rights or theocracy. God is the author of liberty, freedom and rights. The problem is that He also speaks about a whole lot of other things that get in the way of people's social agendas.

[Hemidakota]

The worst sin is already stated by the Lord Himself to the Prophet Joseph Smith. There were two of them mentioned, Jamie, I am sure you know which two I am referring.

[Jim108]

In the past I've had several quite lengthy exchanges with Vort (and others) on the position of sexual immorality in the hierarchy of sin. My attempts to put it in perspective (as I see it, given my Anglican background) have sometimes been taken as attempts to say that it's "no big deal". This article explains (somewhat better than I could) the kind of position I take on this:

Sexual Sin: Is it the Worst Kind of Sin? by guest author Joel Doxxa

He puts it best when he says:

Of course I know there's a passage in the Book of Mormon (Alma, I believe) which puts sexual sin in the "big three" (along with murder and "denying the Holy Spirit"). I don't myself believe the Book of Mormon - if I did I would have joined the LDS Church long ago (assuming they'd have had me!) - but I know most people who post here do believe it so I'm not expecting any converts to this way of thinking. But just as many non-LDS people misunderstand the Mormon position, a great many Mormons misunderstand the positions of other faiths. It doesn't hurt for any of us to look at things from a different perspective from time to time.

[P.S. Now I come to think of it, I did once say that I thought pride was the worst sin of all, which rather contradicts the "all sins are equal" idea. I still sort-of believe this, not because I think pride is any worse in God's eyes, but because "being proud" alienates us from other people and is one of the most insidious and difficult things to give up.]

[P.P.S. Having thought about it a bit more, I think I can begin to see where critics of the "all sins are equal" idea are coming from: It would be easy for someone in the middle of an extra-marital affair to say to himself "well, it's no worse than anyone else's sin, so why pick on me?" In a way he would be right, but it wouldn't help him in the long run. He (and everyone else for that matter) needs to repent.]

"In the past I've had several quite lengthy exchanges with Vort (and others) on the position of sexual immorality in the hierarchy of sin."

We keep mentioning on this site that sin can be ranked from minor to major. It is easy to see sin in this manner from an Earthly view, but God does not see it that way.

You see, every sin is serious in God's eyes. The reason is because God is absolutely pure and holy, and even one sin -- just one, no matter how minor it might seem to us -- would be enough to banish us from His presence forever. The Bible says of God, "Your eyes are too pure to look on evil; you cannot tolerate wrong" (Habakkuk 1:13). Every sin makes us guilty before God and subject to His judgment.

Thank you Jesus, for without you, we are lost.

[Palerider]

"In the past I've had several quite lengthy exchanges with Vort (and others) on the position of sexual immorality in the hierarchy of sin."

We keep mentioning on this site that sin can be ranked from minor to major. It is easy to see sin in this manner from an Earthly view, but God does not see it that way.

You see, every sin is serious in God's eyes. The reason is because God is absolutely pure and holy, and even one sin -- just one, no matter how minor it might seem to us -- would be enough to banish us from His presence forever. The Bible says of God, "Your eyes are too pure to look on evil; you cannot tolerate wrong" (Habakkuk 1:13). Every sin makes us guilty before God and subject to His judgment.

Thank you Jesus, for without you, we are lost.

It must come from the show "All In The Family"....Archie Bunker said one day....must be pretty important because God put it in the Top 10.....:)

[JohnnyRudick]

It must come from the show "All In The Family"....Archie Bunker said one day....must be pretty important because God put it in the Top 10.....:)

Archie Bunker.

One of my most favorite Philosophers;)

Bro. Rudick

[Palerider]

Archie Bunker.

One of my most favorite Philosophers;)

Bro. Rudick

no laugh button....had to use the thanks button....

[pam]

The worst sin is already stated by the Lord Himself to the Prophet Joseph Smith. There were two of them mentioned, Jamie, I am sure you know which two I am referring.

You might want to bring them up Hemi as Jamie is not a member. Also for anyone else reading that may not know what they are.

[Prodigal_Son]

Doesn't "The Miracle of Forgiveness" label sexual sin second to murder?

[Jamie123]

We erroneously tend to equate social consequences with spiritual ones. So, in our minds stealing is a greater sin than sexual transgression. But it is not so.

I totally agree with what you're saying, though I don't think everyone would agree with your example. (Destroying your family's happiness with an affair would have way worse consequences than stealing a packet of gum. Particularly if the crime were never detected, but of course that's irrelevant from the "sin" perspective.)

[Jamie123]

"In the past I've had several quite lengthy exchanges with Vort (and others) on the position of sexual immorality in the hierarchy of sin."

We keep mentioning on this site that sin can be ranked from minor to major. It is easy to see sin in this manner from an Earthly view, but God does not see it that way.

You see, every sin is serious in God's eyes. The reason is because God is absolutely pure and holy, and even one sin -- just one, no matter how minor it might seem to us -- would be enough to banish us from His presence forever. The Bible says of God, "Your eyes are too pure to look on evil; you cannot tolerate wrong" (Habakkuk 1:13). Every sin makes us guilty before God and subject to His judgment.

Thank you Jesus, for without you, we are lost.

This is what I believe too, Jim. But remember you and I are both "mainstream" Christians amongst a group that holds to a slightly different worldview. I think this is one of the things we'll have to "agree to disagree" on.

[Jamie123]

I don't agree with this at all. Sin is not some perpetual motion machine. Eventually sin grinds the sinner down until spiritually the person is in a state of entropic spirituality, spiritually comatose, or spiritually dead. In my opinion, this spiritual death affects the rest of the individual as well, intellectually and physically.

I don't think that's quite what the author meant. He was saying that the evil consequences of sin propagate frictionlessly, moving from one life to the next, doing more and more harm.

[JohnnyRudick]

I don't think that's quite what the author meant. He was saying that the evil consequences of sin propagate frictionlessly, moving from one life to the next, doing more and more harm.

Isn't that somewhat what my Ogre bro. was getting at?

Bro. Rudick

[Jamie123]

LOL - I think I get his meaning - just using the thermodynamics metaphor a different way. I'm just being my usual pedantic self

[Jamie123]

Isn't that somewhat what my Ogre bro. was getting at?

Bro. Rudick

LOL - I think I get his meaning - just using the thermodynamics metaphor a different way. I'm just being my usual pedantic self

[Jamie123]

Isn't that somewhat what my Ogre bro. was getting at?

Bro. Rudick

LOL - I think I get his meaning - just using the thermodynamics metaphor a different way. I'm just being my usual pedantic self

Bro. Jamie

[JohnnyRudick]

LOL - I think I get his meaning - just using the thermodynamics metaphor a different way. I'm just being my usual pedantic self

Bro. Jamie

Yeah, I figgerd that:D

just. . . being me:p

Bro. Rudick

[Misshalfway]

Sin is an interesting beast -- especially sexual sin. We are born sexual beings and its clear that our natural human inclination is to explore and express our passions. God, on the other hand, gives these somewhat limiting commandments to teach us to control our passions.

The morality of our popular modern world is interesting to me. I think sometimes we want our cake and want to eat it too. We want our sexual pleasures, AND we want to remain in good favor with God -- so we justify or deny and sometimes water things down a bit.

I think sometimes we fail to see the spiritual implications that happen from sexual indiscretion. I think we fail to see the range of consequences-- from the corruption/distortions created inside the individual, to the impact on family and society. Some would say that there is not impact. What I do, I do to myself only. Or what I do in my bedroom doesn't effect the world at large. What a naive and almost blind view!

Maybe those of us on this forum don't understand sexual sin the same way. Surely teachings from our various pulpits vary. But what I hope we can agree upon is that living a chaste and clean life is perhaps the best way to live for the individual (emotional/spiritual), for children/teens, for marriages and parenting, for community health, society as a whole, etc.

[dazed-and-confused]

Like everything else, physical joining can be a spiritual experience with true communion, or a simple and base act of, well, you know. It it used by many in the same way that addicts use drugs, release of tensions and to feel better about themselves. I think it's important to try and see the difference between sex and love, because although the two together can lead to a spiritual experience, either one is not all inclusive towards the other. I think that too many people confuse passion for love, only to see the difference later and regret their decisions, specially young people with "raging hormones"...lol. It's all a learning experience, like everything else in life. No said it was going to be easy.

[JohnnyRudick]

Like everything else, physical joining can be a spiritual experience with true communion, or a simple and base act of, well, you know. It it used by many in the same way that addicts use drugs, release of tensions and to feel better about themselves. I think it's important to try and see the difference between sex and love, because although the two together can lead to a spiritual experience, either one is not all inclusive towards the other. I think that too many people confuse passion for love, only to see the difference later and regret their decisions, specially young people with "raging hormones"...lol. It's all a learning experience, like everything else in life. No said it was going to be easy.

I believe it is with most things in life.

Things we eat, things we drink, etc.

Everything has it's place and the amount that is best in use at a time:p

Bro. Rudick

[Justice]

Sin is an interesting beast -- especially sexual sin. We are born sexual beings and its clear that our natural human inclination is to explore and express our passions.

Isn't it also interesting to think about how me might feel about it if everyone on earth were born to "goodly parents" who taught the Gospel of Jesus Christ to their kids?

I'm not sure we would grow up with sex as a natural human inclination, other than within the bonds of marraige. Some might, but I guess I'm leaning toward how it might be during the Millenneum. Why will Satan be bound? Because no one will listen to him. Why won't they? Because all will be brought up in light and truth.

[Seanette]

Isn't it also interesting to think about how me might feel about it if everyone on earth were born to "goodly parents" who taught the Gospel of Jesus Christ to their kids?

I'm not sure we would grow up with sex as a natural human inclination, other than within the bonds of marraige. Some might, but I guess I'm leaning toward how it might be during the Millenneum. Why will Satan be bound? Because no one will listen to him. Why won't they? Because all will be brought up in light and truth.

I'm not sure I agree here (no offense intended). The sex drive is for most people a very strong instinct with lots of biochemical influence.

The difference in your scenario, I think, would come from children being taught that that drive CAN be controlled and that chastity is not hazardous to one's health, unlike the message our culture sends on that topic ("no, you can't control yourself, you're just an animal, and it's unhealthy to try").

[JohnnyRudick]

Isn't it also interesting to think about how me might feel about it if everyone on earth were born to "goodly parents" who taught the Gospel of Jesus Christ to their kids?

I'm not sure we would grow up with sex as a natural human inclination, other than within the bonds of marraige. Some might, but I guess I'm leaning toward how it might be during the Millenneum. Why will Satan be bound? Because no one will listen to him. Why won't they? Because all will be brought up in light and truth.

Satan will be bound for a thousand years not because people will not listen to him for a thousand years but because he is literally bound and out of the way.

Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven,

having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his

hand.

Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old

serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand

years,

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut

him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the

nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and

after that he must be loosed a little season. . .

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan

shall be loosed out of his prison,

Revelation 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which

are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather

them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the

sea.

Revelation 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth,

and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city:

and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Bro. Rudick