Can someone please be honest with me?

[rameumptom]

Lovely12 wrote:

My husband was chased and later his family attacked by the KKK when he was boy. Why? because he was black. So, racial predjudice/hatred does exist. And, what I struggle with is did our past prophets hold this kind of hatred.

Was there prejudice among some past prophets and General Authorities? I believe so. Some of their statements strongly suggest it. Was there hatred from them? I do not think so.

As the book of Mormon teaches us, sometimes the false traditions of our fathers tend to blind us. The children of Laman and Lemuel were not judged harshly, because their fathers taught them wrong traditions. When the Lamanites did hear the gospel truth and were converted, they were blessed for it, and the Lord did not hold those old wives tales against them.

While we should never forget the mistakes of the past, we should also not let them chain us down to the past. Too many people miss out on the blessings of the temple today, simply because they feel too injured to accept that a prophet may have been prejudiced in the past. I see hurt feelings keep people out of God's church all the time, and not only on this issue.

Several years ago in another stake I lived in, a job for chapel sanitation came open. Several people submitted their names and application to the stake president, who passed the names along to the building management group. I was standing next to our stake president at a stake event, when one man came up to him and turned in his temple recommend, because he felt the stake president was wrong for not giving him the job. The stake president sighed and asked the man to talk to him later. The stake president then turned to me (his stake clerk) and said that he had no input in the hiring, he just collected and passed on the resumes.

IOW, a man was willing to give up his temple recommend and the blessings of the temple, because he felt slighted by the stake president. I hope no one, and especially no black member or investigator, allows the Church's (or a church leader's) imperfect past to keep them from receiving the greatest promises and blessings of God.

[martybess]

Traveler, thank you for your post. I appreciate many parts of it, but I do not agree with your statement that racial prejudice does not exit. I should know that it does! Until you have walked in my shoes, you will not understand this.

You should remember the story of Emitt Till? The young black boy in Mississippi who was brutally beaten for whistling at a white woman? If you google his name, you will see the graphic pictures of this young boy's body. There were no charges ever made in that case.

Emmett Till - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My husband was chased and later his family attacked by the KKK when he was boy. Why? because he was black. So, racial predjudice/hatred does exist. And, what I struggle with is did our past prophets hold this kind of hatred.

I thank you for your post, but I have received the help that I needed from this post and I am working together brother Marvin Perkins to seek additional help.

Thank you for sharing your story and ideas with me.

Take care.

Lovely,

Remember there's bigatrey, hatred and prejudiced against Latter Day Saints as well. Missionaries are killed; members in the work place are treated unfairly and so on. Why because people are taught it mostly. Do we turn those who feel this way away? No we pray for them that they will see us for who we really are. We don't look for ways to judge but for ways to mend. It's all satin; he is the author of all this junk.

[Kenny]

You know Lovely12 the reason I have responded to your concerns is because if you look at what you are saying you are in fact answering your own questions.

If a man can react so childishly to something as earthly as a job then where was that man's testimony certainly not in Jesus Christ?

You feel things in a way only people who care feel but that can also be a weakness and Satan knows our weaknesses and will try to exploit them,

why?

Because God gives us weaknesses to help us become more humble, because when we are more humble what happens?

We present ourselves ready for the nurturing of God. Such nurturing brings us closer to God and out of the influence of Satan.

When you are closer to God do you feel happier?

This happiness is where the seeds of Joy resides the very thing that our Heavenly parents had in abundance and what we sort along with getting flesh and bones.

Let me use an example of something that caused great distress in the early members of the church and one that almost saw Joseph Smith destroyed.

Polygamy!!

Joseph struggled with its concept so much that God decreed He would destroy him if he did not comply.

Later polygamy was the very thing that almost saw the church seized by the US government.

Yet in both cases the reason was the disobeying of Gods commands.

So there are reasons God does what he does in the time he does it for reason only He knows.

From my understanding Polygamy was introduced as part of the restoration of the Gospel. God knows the end from the beginning and could see that some time in the future US law would outlaw it.

We have the Article’s of Faith which distinctly states in article 12 that we will obey the law of the land.

12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honouring, and sustaining the law.

Yet it took the threat of all the churches assets being ceased before the leaders of the church saw that God whom instigated it had already spoken to have it ended.

Men think because they are learned they are wise, they also put their own abilities above that of Gods.

We are going to be amazed when the veil is lifted; we will see clearly the Lords hand in everything and that without His input nothing would have been achieved.

Just take the advances man made between His ministry and the restoration of His gospel to what has happened since in a tenth of the time.

You and I and all the human family have one thing in common, the same heavily parents, and that makes you and me sister and brother literally. We lived with parents that loved us and nurtured us, parents that were balanced and as such raised balance children, you feel that don’t you, through the veil, everybody does, some embrace it, some reject it be it is there none-the-less.

Some of our siblings lose their way in this life, some crucified God himself, but that same God tells us we must forgive all.

There is nothing any of us can do about the past except stop living there. No human being is going to makes us feel the way Christ will make us feel about ourselves.

hope you find some comfort in my words they are said a lot softer then they might seem in type.

[Seanette]

Yes my appoligies you are right got carried away in the moment and missed the cross reference and made the common mistake.

Do not confuse Enoch of Cain’s lineage and the city of his name with the Enoch of Seth’s lineage and the city (Zion) of his name. (See Moses 6: 21 — 7: 69.).

21 And Jared lived one hundred and sixty-two years, and begat Enoch; and Jared lived, after he begat Enoch, eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters. And Jared taught Enoch in all the ways of God.

The sentiment is the same though in that it is man who see the linerage of Cain in lesser terms than does our Father in Heaven.

I did say I agreed with the important points you made, just had that one detail picking at my brain.

[Moksha]

There is never a need to minimize the mistakes of the past. We should instead bow our heads and pray that we learn from the past and never repeat these wrongs. Then our job is to love one another in the here and now.

:)

Edited June 10, 2009 by Moksha
spelun

[rameumptom]

Kenny,

I did have a couple issues with what you wrote. First was corrected, in that the righteous Enoch was not the descendant of Cain.

Second, is you assume that the "mark of Cain" was the mark of black skin, and that it was passed on to his descendants. This is a long held tradition by traditional Christians, which passed into the LDS Church. Most LDS scholars now see it as a wrong view.

I suggest you study this more at blacklds.org and at the Genesis Group's website.

[Guest Lovely12]

Thank you, Rameumpton, for the above post.

[Guest missingsomething]

Can I just say - the thing that I believe makes this church different than any other is that we have a prophet leading us - it does not mean that they do everything perfectly or PC or kosher all the time. I do believe that as long as these men are faithful, then they receive GODS WILL, even if it is not popular. But is everything God's Will? Well I guess that would mean they would have to be perfect - or maybe it means God understood they would not be perfect. These are the things each of us struggle with over one doctrine or another.

I do not doubt your faith... and sometimes, those who "fall inactive" are being more honest than those who just go through the motions of going to church but their head and heart are not in it. Satan has powerful tools for his use. He also knew us before we came here. He knows each of our weaknesses.

Inbtwn conferences there was a great documentary type show that explained the blacks/priesthood thing better than I have ever heard.... but I dont remember the name of the show... maybe someone else knows which one Im talking about.

The thing here is... you need to pray and continue to pray to receive confirmation that this is Heavenly Fathers true restored church. I believe each of us need to reconfirm our faith and our testimony - its ok to ask for confirmation -I've done it and WOW it can really make your faith stronger. If you accept that...then you must accept the past (and possibly future) that you may not agree with. Now some may object to that statement - but its a statement of faith.... that if this IS heavenly Father's church then he is guiding it and its according to His plan.

Im sorry that some people have been stupid... trust me, they probably offend lots of people. :) I'm also sorrowful of some things that have created hurdles for people to overcome - wish sometimes it could be a smooth road. But its not and people are not perfect and our understanding is not perfect. The only thing you can do is to take this to the Lord. Pray, ponder and try to find peace with it. Then, LET IT GO.

Good luck.

Edited June 10, 2009 by missingsomething

[Guest Lovely12]

Thank you, missingsomething, for sharing your testimony and strong post. I agree with you.

I would like everyone to know that I am delighted to say that after speaking with brother Perkins and Bishop Bethel (co-chair of Geneis group) for two hours by phone, I have found the answers that I was seeking. I am overjoyed with the knowledge and information that they have shared with me. We went through many scriptures from old/new testiment of the Bible and the Book of Mormon. I feel as though a ton of bricks have been lifted off of me.

I sincerely thank you ALL for your continued prayers, frienship, and help.

Here is a very useful link:

Blacks in the Scriptures - Black / Negro Mormon LDS history & Doctrine

Edited June 24, 2009 by Lovely12

[beefche]

Thank you, missingsomething, for sharing your testimony and strong post. I agree with you.

I would like everyone to know that I am delighted to say that after speaking with brother Perkins and Bishop Bethel (co-chair of Geneis group) for two hours by phone, I have found the answers that I was seeking. I am overjoyed with the knowledge and information that they have shared with me. We went through many scriptures from old/new testiment of the Bible and the Book of Mormon. I feel as though a ton of bricks have been lifted off of me. I will be updating my blog and "Statement of Faith" very soon.

I sincerely thank you ALL for your continued prayers, frienship, and help.

I'm really glad to hear that. Now you can be a source for others who may have some of the same feelings/doubts you had. Learn-teach-learn---that's the best to actually learn and gain a testimony (imo).

[bytebear]

Thank you, missingsomething, for sharing your testimony and strong post. I agree with you.

I would like everyone to know that I am delighted to say that after speaking with brother Perkins and Bishop Bethel (co-chair of Geneis group) for two hours by phone, I have found the answers that I was seeking. I am overjoyed with the knowledge and information that they have shared with me. We went through many scriptures from old/new testiment of the Bible and the Book of Mormon. I feel as though a ton of bricks have been lifted off of me. I will be updating my blog and "Statement of Faith" very soon.

I sincerely thank you ALL for your continued prayers, frienship, and help.

Yay! You have strengthened my testimony of the Gospel. You are a wonderful example that all the answers are out there, if we just seek them out. I really think you are an instrument in bringing people into the gospel who struggle with this issue. You have a unique testimony now, and when someone says, "How can you be a member of a racist church," you can simply say "Because it's true." Nothing Brigham Young, or Bruce R. McConkie, or any other church leader or member can say or do that will negate one simple but glorious fact: Joseph Smith's prayer was answered.

All issues and stumbling blocks can be overcome through study, faith and prayer. I am so happy for you!

[Misshalfway]

Thank you, missingsomething, for sharing your testimony and strong post. I agree with you.

I would like everyone to know that I am delighted to say that after speaking with brother Perkins and Bishop Bethel (co-chair of Geneis group) for two hours by phone, I have found the answers that I was seeking. I am overjoyed with the knowledge and information that they have shared with me. We went through many scriptures from old/new testiment of the Bible and the Book of Mormon. I feel as though a ton of bricks have been lifted off of me. I will be updating my blog and "Statement of Faith" very soon.

I sincerely thank you ALL for your continued prayers, frienship, and help.

Here is a very useful link:

Blacks in the Scriptures - Black / Negro Mormon LDS history & Doctrine

Now you have me all curious. I would love to have been a listener on that conversation. Looking forward to reading your blog.

[john doe]

That's awesome Lovely12! I'm glad that through this site you were able to find someone who could hook you up with people to help you.

[Kenny]

Kenny,

I did have a couple issues with what you wrote. First was corrected, in that the righteous Enoch was not the descendant of Cain.

Second, is you assume that the "mark of Cain" was the mark of black skin, and that it was passed on to his descendants. This is a long held tradition by traditional Christians, which passed into the LDS Church. Most LDS scholars now see it as a wrong view.

I suggest you study this more at blacklds.org and at the Genesis Group's website.

You are of cause right in what you say but the issue was not whether the mark of Cain was black skin but rather the few who use these difference to persecute those that have and that they that do should read the warning the Lord gave.

[Guest Lovely12]

Miss Halfway, as soon as I finish the dvd seminar and gather all my notes, etc. I will try to "sum it up" as to what I exacly learned. But, I can in no way explain like brother Perkins and Bishop Ethel. (at least not yet, give me time) But, I will try my best!

[skippy740]

Your enthusiasm is infectuous! Keep it up! :)

[Seanette]

Thank you, missingsomething, for sharing your testimony and strong post. I agree with you.

I would like everyone to know that I am delighted to say that after speaking with brother Perkins and Bishop Bethel (co-chair of Geneis group) for two hours by phone, I have found the answers that I was seeking. I am overjoyed with the knowledge and information that they have shared with me. We went through many scriptures from old/new testiment of the Bible and the Book of Mormon. I feel as though a ton of bricks have been lifted off of me. I will be updating my blog and "Statement of Faith" very soon.

I sincerely thank you ALL for your continued prayers, frienship, and help.

Here is a very useful link:

Blacks in the Scriptures - Black / Negro Mormon LDS history & Doctrine

I'm very happy to see this.

What's your blog address? I'd like to come check it out. You can see my babble here.

[rameumptom]

This is one of the reasons the Church does not (or should not) hold to creeds or opinions, as if they are doctrine. Thankfully, we have living prophets that the Lord uses to eventually lead us to greater light and truth.

I struggled for years over Brigham Young being a prophet, given the 5 or 6 big issues that continually are discussed to this day (race just being one of them). However, I had a special experience during the Nauvoo Temple open house that gave me a new look on the man and prophet. While I still can speak vociferously on issues such as the priesthood ban and race issues, I know without a doubt that Brigham Young IS a prophet of God and continues the work of God today.

[Hemidakota]

All men have weaknesses but for Brigham, I am sure they were corrected by now. :)

[martybess]

Miss Halfway, as soon as I finish the dvd seminar and gather all my notes, etc. I will try to "sum it up" as to what I exacly learned. But, I can in no way explain like brother Perkins and Bishop Ethel. (at least not yet, give me time) But, I will try my best!

How did you find brother Perkins and Bishop Ethel? Who are they?

Edited June 12, 2009 by martybess

[martybess]

Miss Halfway, as soon as I finish the dvd seminar and gather all my notes, etc. I will try to "sum it up" as to what I exacly learned. But, I can in no way explain like brother Perkins and Bishop Ethel. (at least not yet, give me time) But, I will try my best!

How did you find brother Perkins and Bishop Ethel? Who are they? I'm so happy for you!! This is what it's all about!!! The trail of our faith comes first then a special witness! It makes us so much stronger! If you haven't had the witness concerning this you will!!!

[Guest Lovely12]

Dear Martybess,

Many of the people reading my posts directed me to brother Perkins who is the co-chair of the Genesis group. It is supported by the first presidency. They teach and support people of color that are in the church. They have realized that many people of color struggle with this same issue that I had been struggling with, so they started this group and the Outreach program.

Bishop Bethel, is a black bishop that lives in Florida and works with Brother Perkins.

Once I emailed them with my problem. They immediately wanted to help me. They called me and we talked for two hours. It was so wonderful. They really helped me. Many people are curious as to what they discussed with me, but I am not knowledgeable enough to explain right now. I'm am still taking the video seminar and studying the scriptures they gave me.

I hope, at some point, to be able to share with everyone what I have learned. But I am very happy and thankful for all of you. My soul is finally at peace.

Link to Genesis group

What Is Genesis?

Blacks in the Scriptures - Black / Negro Mormon LDS history & Doctrine

Thank you so much for caring about me. I could feel the spirit moving through my thread I posted. I knew I had many people who cared and who were sincerely searching for answers for me. I appreciate it so very much.

Edited June 13, 2009 by Lovely12

[pam]

Lovely I also think that the conversation might be quite personal and perhaps not one you would want to share. I think if that is the case we all would understand.

[Guest Lovely12]

Thank you, Pam.

[martybess]

Yes I agree. Mine ultimate conversion was a sacred moment. Now I do not doubt! Can not doubt! It will come if it hasn't. Sounds like your in that process. Really cool!