Expectations of missionaries

[beefche]

I didn't want to hijack another thread, so I decided to start this one.

Why do people expect missionaries to know more and do more to "prepare" investigators? Do you (general you, plural you) understand that missionaries' primary responsibility is to preach repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and bring souls closer to Him by His ordinances? Furthermore, we're talking about primarily 19 year old young men--not wizened scholars who have studied for years various topics of the church such as Old Testament laws and rituals, New Testament culture and language, history of the LDS church with all it's nuances, ancient American history and culture, every word uttered by past and present prophets and finally, all the arguments anti and less friendly to LDS people use.

I can tell you as a former missionary, that I tried my best to be honest and straightforward with those I came in contact (whether investigators, curious people, or members). I also knew what I was consecrated for...to preach Jesus and His truth and way to Him. I wasn't there to simply satisfy the curiosity of others. I would be gracious and friendly, but I made it clear that if they simply wanted to chat with an American or be my friend, that I wasn't there to do that.

Further, I didn't have the knowledge then nor do I now to be able to answer the questions to the complete satisfaction of everyone. Sometimes I was able to help and others I left sadly lacking.

Perhaps I'm being defensive of the missionaries, but I just find that they are a fantastic bunch of people and to expect more than they can or should give is simply wrong. They cannot give anyone knowledge...just like they cannot convert anyone. There is a personal responsibility that we all must take to enhance our own knowledge and faith.

[prisonchaplain]

If you are asking why non-members expect so much, it's because the missionaries of most Christian churches are trained to evangelize (teach the way to Jesus, as described in the OP), to start and manage a church (ward), to teach Scripture to those training for church leadership, and in many cases, to even translate the Bible from Greek and Hebrew. Further, typical missionaries spend one to two years doing fulltime language study.

Also, in most churches an elder is, well...older. So, when young men evangelize with the titles missionary and elder, those who have no exposure to your church, but do have some to traditional Christianity are bound to be confused.

I'm sure most LDS missionaries learn fairly quickly to explain themselves, and how they harken back to the simpler pattern of the New Testament, etc. But the initial confusion is based upon how the rest of us Christians do things.

[Mahone]

I don't know about non-members but members (mostly those who have never been on a mission themselves) often tend to not see missionaries as just 19/20 year old men who are simply members of the church just like they are, just with a different calling. Instead people tend to see them as some kind of supreme being and if they ever seen to be making a mistake, the reaction to that mistake is vastly amplified simply due to the fact they are a missionary.

This is similar to the way pupils don't see teachers as humans and when they see one of their teachers buying alcohol in the store outside of work time, it becomes the story of the playground for weeks *shock* you mean teachers actually have lives outside of school? lol.

[pam]

I hear more from members than non members comments like "The missionaries should be more this..they should have done this, why could they have done that? But I agree with Beefche...they are 19 year old young men. They are learning just like everyone else and I think people expect them to be much more than they are.

[Maya]

Thanks Beefy this is a very good thing to talk about. I am going to show that to my son. You are so right. I know there are many anties, "critics" in Finland that will always try to ask missionaries questions that would shake their belief. And if they have not heard about it before... they may get a shakenbelief syndroma. Some missionaries have not been so interested in the Church history that some questions may really shake some of them.

It really si their jop to find people who are interested and call them to rependance, not to answer all weird questions about the church.

[rayhale]

I agree with you, beefche, however prisonchaplain has a point, most other religious missionaries are taught more, and do more, and most times older, and wiser, then LDS missionaries. One way around this is to read the Preach My Gospel book; read ALL the scriptures; memorize key passages of scripture; if you have an LDS Institute near you, go to a Church History class; BEFORE your mission, and remember that you should not expect yourself to know everything about the Church, you are a missionary of the Church, so that alone makes you a target of people’s hatred of the Church, because, when they see you, they see the Church.

[beefche]

I understand what you're saying, prisonchaplin. And for whatever reason, I never had a problem with non-members on my mission. Once I explained who I was and my "job", they seemed to accept that I wasn't as knowledgeable as their priests (this was in Bulgaria where Bulgarian Orthodox priests were trained for years in a seminary).

I was speaking more about members of the church. It just seems to me that some members expect so much out of missionaries. I find that I do myself sometimes. Then I have to remind myself that they are so young and inexperienced.

Looking back over my "life" in the church, I realize that my testimony at the time of my baptism was an infant's knowledge. I was 19 years old and knew that this was the right thing to do. I had a testimony of Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon, prophets, etc. But compared to the testimony today that I have, it was a baby's testimony. Thinking of missionaries, I think their testimony is much the same. Most (not all) missionaries were raised in the church, relying on their parents and/or leaders for strength. For some, the mission is the first time for them to truly stand on their own.

It's amazing to me that the Lord trusts these young men and women with such a grave responsibility. Truly He is able to do anything...look at His chosen representatives...these young people are teaching the future leaders and will become our future leaders. Astounding.

[Prodigal_Son]

I wonder if, from a member-perspective, we demand more of them because that lessens our burdens and responsibilities?

WE, the members, have been asked repeatedly to do the finding, the preparing, etc... But if we can hitch that load to the full time Elders, then we don't have to feel guilty for failing in our obligations to proclaim the gospel...

[Prodigal_Son]

Something that has always stuck with me was the words of a friend right after he returned from a very successful mission. He looked at me in the eyes, and with complete sincerity (in response to a comment I'd made) said, [paraphrased] "Think about it: the Lord doesn't send 19 year olds out for others' sakes - he sends them for the 19 year old's."

He then went on to explain how there isn't much less likely a candidate for an effective missionary than a 19 year old boy. (yes, yes, this is ignoring the witness of God's power through such a candidate.) While on the other hand, a 19 year old boy left to his own is very possibly at his most self-destructive stage of life.

Those boys might be (and are) out there converting others, but I believe that - more than anything else - they're working on their OWN conversion.

[skippy740]

Something that has always stuck with me was the words of a friend right after he returned from a very successful mission. He looked at me in the eyes, and with complete sincerity (in response to a comment I'd made) said, [paraphrased] "Think about it: the Lord doesn't send 19 year olds out for others' sakes - he sends them for the 19 year old's."

He then went on to explain how there isn't much less likely a candidate for an effective missionary than a 19 year old boy. (yes, yes, this is ignoring the witness of God's power through such a candidate.) While on the other hand, a 19 year old boy left to his own is very possibly at his most self-destructive stage of life.

Those boys might be (and are) out there converting others, but I believe that - more than anything else - they're working on their OWN conversion.

Alma 37:6

Now ye may suppose that this is foolishness in me; but behold I say unto you, that by small and simple things are great things brought to pass; and small means in many instances doth confound the wise.

19 year olds and senior missionaries are considered to be of the "foolish" of the world - but many miracles have come to pass by their service.

[bmy-]

Why do people expect missionaries to know more and do more to "prepare" investigators? Do you (general you, plural you) understand that missionaries' primary responsibility is to preach repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and bring souls closer to Him by His ordinances?

It's just my opinion.. but regurgitating information does little good out in the 'field'. Demonstrating a solid grasp on the concepts, nuances, and theological beliefs of the Church will go further in practical situations. I know we teach milk before meat.. yet it gets taken to an extreme.

At the minimum missionaries should prepare enough to not look like a deer in headlights when intellectual questions are asked. No stuttering about the first vision, plan of salvation, or obedience.. be able to look people in the eye and match them point for point.

Furthermore, we're talking about primarily 19 year old young men--not wizened scholars who have studied for years various topics of the church such as Old Testament laws and rituals, New Testament culture and language, history of the LDS church with all it's nuances, ancient American history and culture, every word uttered by past and present prophets and finally, all the arguments anti and less friendly to LDS people use.

Perhaps they should spend the entire first year at the MTC. Plenty of work can be done in the remaining year.. and who knows -- might see an increase in baptisms. That would give them plenty of time to learn it all.. I'd wager it could be done in 6 months if they worked diligently.

I can tell you as a former missionary, that I tried my best to be honest and straightforward with those I came in contact (whether investigators, curious people, or members). I also knew what I was consecrated for...to preach Jesus and His truth and way to Him. I wasn't there to simply satisfy the curiosity of others. I would be gracious and friendly, but I made it clear that if they simply wanted to chat with an American or be my friend, that I wasn't there to do that.

I see nothing wrong with forming relationships. Relationships turning into opportunities happen more frequently than having good success going door to door. I really think having meaningful relationships while on a mission would do far more for the baptism rate than anything else. Those meaningful relationships would likely be fueled by discussion (and answering the theological questions).

Perhaps I'm being defensive of the missionaries, but I just find that they are a fantastic bunch of people and to expect more than they can or should give is simply wrong. They cannot give anyone knowledge...just like they cannot convert anyone. There is a personal responsibility that we all must take to enhance our own knowledge and faith.

I don't think it's asking to much for a missionary (or representative) of this church to be knowledgeable on the touch subjects. To be able to hold their own in a theological discussion and the like.

From personal experiences.. i've asked missionaries questions, etc. and it always gets swept under the rug or plain ignored. They'll look it up tonight and get back to me as soon as possible.. yeah right. I've been left shaking my head thinking that these are representatives of our Church?

Stick them in the MTC for as long as it takes. To each their own speed. I've had some great missionaries before.. and it led to my baptism.. but they all had one thing in common -- they talked with me about more than they were supposed to.

[Prodigal_Son]

19 year olds and senior missionaries are considered to be of the "foolish" of the world - but many miracles have come to pass by their service.

Yes, this is what I was alluding to in parenthesis. I don't disagree with this at all. But I don't buy for a second that this is the basis for sending out our young men. I think it's just a bonus.

[skippy740]

Perhaps they should spend the entire first year at the MTC. Plenty of work can be done in the remaining year.. and who knows -- might see an increase in baptisms. That would give them plenty of time to learn it all.. I'd wager it could be done in 6 months if they worked diligently.

I don't think it's asking to much for a missionary (or representative) of this church to be knowledgeable on the touch subjects. To be able to hold their own in a theological discussion and the like.

Stick them in the MTC for as long as it takes. To each their own speed. I've had some great missionaries before.. and it led to my baptism.. but they all had one thing in common -- they talked with me about more than they were supposed to.

Most of our missionaries come from Utah. Many have been doctrinally sheltered by their parents, families and communities. More sheltering doesn't help a missionary progress. More knowledge doesn't help a missionary (or investigator) progress.

You can only grow as a missionary under "live fire" exercises.

Perhaps there needs to be greater teaching and understanding about "touchy subjects" taught in the MTC?

Having been in California with a convert for a father, I was taught about "touchy subjects" and the proper teachings behind them. How? Because my father had to know and so he taught his sons. Having been raised in California (versus "Mormon-Land" of Utah) it gave me more opportunities to be exposed to those "touchy subjects" before I served my mission.

Now that I think about it, my father groomed me to be a very effective missionary! It began at home!

Perhaps we need a new book written by The Church about "questionable doctrine" and the truths behind it as a family teaching tool to help us all become better member missionaries and full-time missionaries. (I think "A Marvelous Work and a Wonder" probably fits this bill pretty good? It may need some updates though.)

[Misshalfway]

Hopefully......HOPEFULLY....missionaries have kinda figured out some of these attitudes and spiritual depths BEFORE they don the little black badge.

I am with Pam. I see the "should" list. "Oh....they SHOULD do this" or "they SHOULD have known" etc.

The should list is rather unfair and doesn't really encorporate the vision of what missionary work the Lord's way is all about. God sends the young and untrained and green and immature to do his work. Interesting proposition. Yet, missionaries "SHOULD" somehow know how to deal with every situation and person flawlessly. Such expectations are unrealistic.....not to mention a little crazy.

I served mission and I was very unprepared for the situations I would later meet. Yet God sent me and empowered me in my weakness. I am sure that I didn't have all the answers for all the people. I am not sure I was suppose to. I felt the Spirit give me my words in moments when I needed them and I felt more times than not that God was doing the real teaching and I was just there to deliver the book.

Missions are not places for people to gain their fundamental testimonies ....or to learn proper LDS doctrine.....or to decide whether or not they are committed to the commandments. It isn't a place for parents to send rebellious kids to "sort them out" or for people to come to gather another "see why I'm so good" badge for their treasures of truth! Missions seem to me to be that crazy faith place in between where God works with the prepared to make them better and He seems to be able to gather Israel in the process.

[skippy740]

Missions seem to me to be that crazy faith place in between where God works with the prepared to make them better and He seems to be able to gather Israel in the process.

God is very efficient in the way he teaches us and helps us to help him carry out his work.

Think about temple work. We learn and are edified. We perform ordinances on behalf of the deceased. We remember our own original covenants. It's an eternal round of learning, serving and growing.

[RachelleDrew]

I agree with the general idea of the OP.

With that being said, I did not have a single good experience with missionaries prior to my baptism. It is truly a wonder that I was baptized at all considering the missionaries I was investigating with were all less informed about the church than I was.

It was amusing at the time, but mostly sad. How it was that I was never exposed to the LDS church but I had more general knowledge than some missionary guys my own age who grew UP in the church was silly.

Ultimately it didn't matter, because I wanted to join the church regardless. However, some people aren't as dedicated to figuring it out on their own. They NEED the leadership of the missionaries. I'm not saying they have to be skilled in apologetics and church history, but I don't think it's too much to ask for them to pay attention in the MTC.

[Guest lalaonegin]

I'm truly amazed with all the carping that's gone on with this thread?

I'm sure pleased as punch that many made it into the Lord's Church inspite of all the dummies donning lil black badges...

makes me go hmmmmmmmmm

[john doe]

I'm confused by some of the replies. Unless things have changed in the past 25 years, there is very little 'gospel training' going on at the MTC. Most of what I remember is learning the discussions and the related scriptures, not delving into troubling Church History or Deep Doctrine. Those who went to foreign places had to spend extra time on learning a language. The large bulk of my gospel training was what I absorbed during the previous 19 years of going to church and listening to my dad talk at the dinner table about things gospel-related.

One of the reasons why we have ward missionaries and members friendshipping potential members is so that they can be the ones who help answer the hard questions. The young full-time missionaries in general simply don't have the time or life experiences to be able to adequately address every question they come across.

[prisonchaplain]

I understand what you're saying, prisonchaplin. And for whatever reason, I never had a problem with non-members on my mission.

The OP brought an incident to mind. I was in Taejon, S. Korea, as a "tentmaker missionary." By that, I mean that I used my vocation as an English teacher, as a platform to offer English Bible studies to university students. Thus, compared to the lifelong missionaries, I too was relatively young (mid to late 20s), and less knowledgeable (a college degree, but not in religious studies), and lacking in strong Korean language skills (the LDS missionaries were actually better than I was).

In any case, we has a Lutheran missionary with us one day. He was from Germany, and totally unfamiliar with your church. As we were walking, two LDS missionaries were coming towards us. The Lutheran pastor saw the name tag (Elder something), and asked us in all sincerity, "What kind of church is it that has adolescents as elders???" We explained what we knew...that it was a role in the church, not necessarily one that implied the wisdom of years or substantial experience.

That's what I thought of when I read of the expectations of missionaries (and, by implication, elders)...

[Moksha]

Also, in most churches an elder is, well...older.

Elders being older? That does tend to put both words in congruence. It always seemed to me that the logical progression in naming, would have been Priests, High Priests and with the coming of bifocals and a few gray hairs, the Elders.

[StallionMcBeastly]

Something that has always stuck with me was the words of a friend right after he returned from a very successful mission. He looked at me in the eyes, and with complete sincerity (in response to a comment I'd made) said, [paraphrased] "Think about it: the Lord doesn't send 19 year olds out for others' sakes - he sends them for the 19 year old's."

He then went on to explain how there isn't much less likely a candidate for an effective missionary than a 19 year old boy. (yes, yes, this is ignoring the witness of God's power through such a candidate.) While on the other hand, a 19 year old boy left to his own is very possibly at his most self-destructive stage of life.

Those boys might be (and are) out there converting others, but I believe that - more than anything else - they're working on their OWN conversion.

I agree that a mission helps build testimonies of the missionaries' themselves - but I believe more than anything they're out there for others.

[pam]

I can see both sides of it.

[Misshalfway]

I think there is a case to be made concerning how we prepare our perspective missionaries to serve. I think perhaps we may need to ramp up to meet the concerns of this increasingly evil world. I sometimes see parents spend more time preparing the closet of the missionary than his/her heart.

I don't however think that missionaries need to obtain doctrinal phd's before entering the mission field. But I do think they need to know the Spirit of the Lord and how it works. They need repetitive experiences with its promptings and patterns. They need to know how to keep themselves worthy to receive the constant companionship/guidance/spontaneous instruction of the spirit.

Doctrine is important. One should understand the gospel and why we do the ordinances we do. One should probably understand some of the concerns people might throw at them. And there is NO DOUBT that one should know the scriptures. The Spirit brings to remembrance things we put into our heads first.

[Ezequiel]

my only expectation of missionaries, if for them to be obedient and live a high conduct of morality. I think that there is nothing more dissappointing than to see missionaries that are dissobedient and casual about their conduct....

Since I've come home from my mission, I only seem to find those kind of missionaries...