Seanette Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 I have to wonder, for all those that say the garments feel so absolutely wonderful and that they were hardly noticable grew up in the church. I sometimes feel that since they grew up around it and heard about it and saw it that these comments are made. I also wonder if they are ever out and about in 95+ degree weather for more than 10 minutes.Try close to 110, while waiting at a bus stop for 15 minutes or more. I've done it. And no, I did not consider it an excuse to tell God, "yeah, I know I made these promises, but it's just not convenient to keep them". No, I am not a life-long member. Converted at 24, was endowed at 25.I'm just not grasping how wearing the garment is just SO horrible that it justifies breaking covenants. I honestly do not know ANYONE who finds the garment to be such torture as you're describing! I had to adjust bras periodically during the day, even before my endowment. NBD.What I'm seeing here is a lot of "I won't put up with being told how to dress". Your choice, but please refrain from sneering at those of us who choose obedience and honoring our covenants. You're the one losing out on the blessings of being someone the Lord can count on to keep promises and be willing to submit your will to His. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aspenmgy Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 I have to wonder, for all those that say the garments feel so absolutely wonderful and that they were hardly noticable grew up in the church. I sometimes feel that since they grew up around it and heard about it and saw it that these comments are made. I also wonder if they are ever out and about in 95+ degree weather for more than 10 minutes. Even members where I live have to "pray their way through summer" as they put it. It's not even the look of the garment that I was concerned with but the bunching, the insane sweating, and then of course by the end of the day you stink, and yes I am a very clean person. And, then the issue of make sure NO ONE ever sees your garments??? I am sorry what about the guys who wear their polo shirts and their t-shirt garment is showing??? Why does that not apply to them? These are the few frustrations I had and then in the end decided it just wasn't for me. I will be the one to face HF and Jesus and they will either understand, be compassionate or they will say, "to the lower kingdom you go." Maybe not the best way to see things, but it is the way for me at this point in my life.Heh. I served in San Diego. On bike. 90+ degrees. In an insanely hilly area. I thought I was going to die. This was my first summer with "an extra layer". I had the corbin fabric garment. It does not absorb the sweat. I quickly wrote home begging for cotton/poly.You get used to it :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpatrey Posted June 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Try close to 110, while waiting at a bus stop for 15 minutes or more. I've done it. And no, I did not consider it an excuse to tell God, "yeah, I know I made these promises, but it's just not convenient to keep them". No, I am not a life-long member. Converted at 24, was endowed at 25.I'm just not grasping how wearing the garment is just SO horrible that it justifies breaking covenants. I honestly do not know ANYONE who finds the garment to be such torture as you're describing! I had to adjust bras periodically during the day, even before my endowment. NBD.What I'm seeing here is a lot of "I won't put up with being told how to dress". Your choice, but please refrain from sneering at those of us who choose obedience and honoring our covenants. You're the one losing out on the blessings of being someone the Lord can count on to keep promises and be willing to submit your will to His.I'm not sure why you would think i would be sneering at anyone for what they choose to do. I think it is great that others can do this and that they can be what you call submissive. So, yeah it must be all about me and my inconvenience and my being uncomfortable or plainly not wanting to do it. For those that can do it I say, "rock on!!!" I wish I was more of a good morman and not such a rule breaker. However, if this is the only thing I am doing wrong then I'm okay with it. My stake president was understanding and compassionate and never once made me feel like i was a bad person. I think this thread took a turn on its own. My original concern was, "did it have any effect on my sealing with my husband and children." I admire those that can do it and not once did i sneer, or make any comment that would appear otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applepansy Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Seriously, no offense to the men here, but garments for you are way different for the women. Even my husband would agree with that. Especially for those that already wear boxers, it is just an extended version of them and most men usually wear undershirts with thier clothing. What I told my husband and what I would ask the men to do is this...Go by a very large sports bra and wear it over your garment top. When it bunches up make sure you discreetly tug it down. When the sweat makes lines under your breasts for all the world to see then you'll have a better idea.So, I can't see how men could remotely understand what the women go through. I am happy with the blessings I have - even though I am not wearing them. If I am missing out on more blessings than I guess I am okay with that.Les is a woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Heh. I served in San Diego. On bike. 90+ degrees. In an insanely hilly area. I thought I was going to die. This was my first summer with "an extra layer". I had the corbin fabric garment. It does not absorb the sweat. I quickly wrote home begging for cotton/poly.You get used to it :)Did you get to go into the "furnace of affliction" on the east part of the mission (El Centro/Calexico/Brawley)? Try 125 degrees in the shade July thru September for size.There are 12,000 members out there in the desert, by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aspenmgy Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Did you get to go into the "furnace of affliction" on the east part of the mission (El Centro/Calexico/Brawley)? Try 125 degrees in the shade July thru September for size.There are 12,000 members out there in the desert, by the way.No, I was never "banished" to the desert My trainer was, haha. He took pictures of the "God is Love" moutain or whatever it is called. Some dude covered it with scriptures,etc. You probably know what I am talking about.On another note, my mother serves in the temple. I called her up and asked her about the "over/under" issue. She said a member of the temple presidency just recently told them that it doesn't matter which way a sister wears it. Something about there not being any scripture detailing how it should be worn.So....there you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpatrey Posted June 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 I just wanted to thank everyone for their wonderful remarks and their great advise. I am always amazed to see how many strong and faithful servants we have in the church. I hope that no one was ever offended by my comments or questions. This purpose of this thread was for general advise and I think that with topics such as this one it can turn into something of its own. I praise all of you that are able to keep your covenants and I know that you will receive the blessings you deserve. At the same time, be respectful of those that choose a different course in regards to garmnets because in the end it is their covenant or "lack thereof" not anyone else. I am a very proud and very active member of this church and tend to be till the end of my earthly life. I will continue to hold my head up high and not apologize for my choices. I think in the end it is my selfishness and my unwillingness to be a submissive servant of the Lord. Who knows maybe one day that will all change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpatrey Posted June 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 No, I was never "banished" to the desert My trainer was, haha. He took pictures of the "God is Love" moutain or whatever it is called. Some dude covered it with scriptures,etc. You probably know what I am talking about.On another note, my mother serves in the temple. I called her up and asked her about the "over/under" issue. She said a member of the temple presidency just recently told them that it doesn't matter which way a sister wears it. Something about there not being any scripture detailing how it should be worn.So....there you go.Many thanks!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applepansy Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 No, my question about clothing was very specific and why in the world would I think they would ask me to dress like the amish??? They could have simply said, "well in a year you can't wear a sleeveless shirt" i think that is fairly simple. If they said simply dress more modestly then I'd be okay with that.But I should've taken the advise of a current member and waited years to take out my endowment. I feel I really should have looked into it. EVERYONE made it seem like it was no big deal and that there were these items that you wore "OVER" your bra and underwear. Just so it is known, the temple matron never once told me how I was supposed to wear them and to this day they do not tell people how to wear them.I have to say the temple prep class was not a prep class at all, they talk in code and really say, "well we can't tell you much, but these are very important covenants you are going to make." So, I did my endowment, tried the garments, failed and broke my covenant. No one here in this forum can say what will or will not happen to me. I will have to endure whatever Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ do to me.I'm not judging and I can hear your pain. I'm sorry you feel deceived. I'm also sorry you felt that you were taught in "code". The covenants are in the scriptures and they should have been taught from there. If you weren't ready you had the option to say you weren't ready. The question is asked very clearly at the begining of the endowment.Now that you are endowed...you still have choices to make. Just like you had choices before. I do believe we will be judged on our knowledge and our human knowledge isn't perfect. Heavenly Father knows your heart. If you are seriously and honestly interested in finding a way to wear the garment, I know Heavenly Father will make it easier.There are times in Utah when we get 110 in the sun. Yes I've worn the garment in the heat. I actually appreciated having it there. I don't know how to say this discreetly...but when I got home from a hot summer day in a car I was soaked but my garments protected my outer clothing from looking like I'd been in a sauna. I didn't have the embarassing sweat marks on my outer clothing. My garments were soaked. There have been other times when I have consciously felt grateful for the garment. As my body changed I had to find a new size. I was grateful when Drisilque fabric became available. I remember when the current lace was new. Believe me when I say menopause is not fun...hot flashes and clothes just don't work well together. However, the garment is my protection and I'm grateful for it. Often its the garment that helps cool me down. I know for a fact that when we make an effort to be obedient we will receive blessings. Sometimes we don't realize we're being blessed until after the fact.Good Luck and best wishes,applepansy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applepansy Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 I'm not sure why you would think i would be sneering at anyone for what they choose to do. I think it is great that others can do this and that they can be what you call submissive. So, yeah it must be all about me and my inconvenience and my being uncomfortable or plainly not wanting to do it. For those that can do it I say, "rock on!!!" I wish I was more of a good morman and not such a rule breaker. However, if this is the only thing I am doing wrong then I'm okay with it. My stake president was understanding and compassionate and never once made me feel like i was a bad person. I think this thread took a turn on its own. My original concern was, "did it have any effect on my sealing with my husband and children." I admire those that can do it and not once did i sneer, or make any comment that would appear otherwise.Not in this life. However, not wearing the garment will have an affect on your ability to get a current temple recommend. The rest is up to our Heavenly Father.All the best to you,applepansy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 KPatrey, I don't have a problem since most here, have not experience real hot [exception to Traveler]. I wore my garments and learned to wear clothing as the Saudis do. In 112 degree midnight moon, to 132-degrees at lunch time, it matters not what is wore but layer in protecting the moisture from evaporation from the heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpatrey Posted June 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 I'm not judging and I can hear your pain. I'm sorry you feel deceived. I'm also sorry you felt that you were taught in "code". The covenants are in the scriptures and they should have been taught from there. If you weren't ready you had the option to say you weren't ready. The question is asked very clearly at the begining of the endowment.Yes, the question is clearly asked but given the situation and what I was seeing I was quite overwhelmed. I was so nervous I was about to pass out. Really, it is what it is. I was more focused on not forgetting the "name" given to me to listen to anything else. I was a member for a year and I clearly didn't have enough knowledge, so in the end that is my fault. I don't necessarily feel I was deceived, I do think that those teaching the temple classes really need to take into consideration that we are "new" and haven't a clue as to what they are talking about. I still struggle understanding the BoM so I could read the scriptures and still not understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanette Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 I'd only been a member for a year when I was endowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applepansy Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Yes, the question is clearly asked but given the situation and what I was seeing I was quite overwhelmed. I was so nervous I was about to pass out. Really, it is what it is. I was more focused on not forgetting the "name" given to me to listen to anything else. I was a member for a year and I clearly didn't have enough knowledge, so in the end that is my fault. I don't necessarily feel I was deceived, I do think that those teaching the temple classes really need to take into consideration that we are "new" and haven't a clue as to what they are talking about. I still struggle understanding the BoM so I could read the scriptures and still not understand it.kpatrey,It takes time to learn the gospel...I'm still learning. You seem to have a desire to understand. I'm sure with that desire you'll work through this issue and come out on Heavenly Father's side. applepansy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpatrey Posted June 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Les is a woman.I wasn't implying that Les was a man or a woman. It was a general statement. Whoever Les is....I didn't think you were a man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefche Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 This is interesting. I actually like having the garment to wear under my bra--my bras last longer and I don't get the red marks and creases in my skin as much. I also like the garments because of the whole sweat issue--I don't worry about sweat stains or obvious sweat showing on my clothes. Plus, I don't have panty lines. That's just a few "temporal" reasons I like it. I have never had a problem with flashing others my garment. Women's clothes are just not made for garments and although I do my best to find clothes that are modest and garment friendly, inevitably my garments will be shown on occasion. I have to fix my clothes (usually my blouse) on occasion to cover the garment, but I've never had a problem if the lace shows. I honestly can't think of anyone ever saying/asking anything about it. I've had friends ask about my garments, but I've never had a problem answering. In fact, I stayed a couple of weeks ago with 2 girlfriends (non-members) in a hotel and they saw my garments--wasn't uncomfortable or a problem. I was baptized at age 19 and endowed at 23. I just don't find them THAT uncomfortable. I have to make adjustments once a month and sometimes during that time it's uncomfortable, but I just deal with it. I live in a hot and humid area and if I'm going to be outside in the heat, I make sure to wear cotton garms. Otherwise, I feel as if I'm in a sauna. And I've forgotten and suffered for it. kpatry, you're right--it's your choice and consequences. I just don't want others who may be reading this thread to think that garments are so horrible that we have to suffer while wearing them. In my opinion, I've been asked to sacrifice for God--I'd rather wear 2 pairs of garments than sit through enrichment meetings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpatrey Posted June 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I'd only been a member for a year when I was endowed.Again, I think that is great....you are doing great. I'm not comparing me to you in any way. You are a stronger person than me I think that is wonderful. I am sure you will continue on your path and continue to do great things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpatrey Posted June 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 kpatry, you're right--it's your choice and consequences. I just don't want others who may be reading this thread to think that garments are so horrible that we have to suffer while wearing them. In my opinion, I've been asked to sacrifice for God--I'd rather wear 2 pairs of garments than sit through enrichment meetings. I agree with you 100% and I think that anyone investigating will see the many remarks of those that say they have no problems with it. I seem to be the only one with the struggle so I am sure the others investigating will think I am a "whack-job" anyway. So no worries right!!!:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefche Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I agree with you 100% and I think that anyone investigating will see the many remarks of those that say they have no problems with it. I seem to be the only one with the struggle so I am sure the others investigating will think I am a "whack-job" anyway. So no worries right!!!:)All Mormons are whack jobs...so you're in good company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanette Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I tend to find "normal" people rather boring. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john doe Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 All Mormons are whack jobs...so you're in good company. All of them? You may have met Pam, and that may have colored your perception, but you haven't met me. I am most certainly not a whack job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 All of them? You may have met Pam, and that may have colored your perception, but you haven't met me. I am most certainly not a whack job. Isn't it all in the family? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) JD I most certainly wish to debate that comment. I'm crazy not whacked. Edited June 16, 2009 by pam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adaas Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 · Hidden Hidden That's great and all, why not start your own thread instead of hijacking this one. Link to comment
Iggy Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 JD I most certainly wish to debate that comment.I'm crazy not whacked. We are all crazy and we have the official cards to prove it:tinfoil:BTW- Pale and John-quit picking on Pam and telling everyone she is older than you, thus she is older than dirt- I am older than dirt and Pam is way younger than me. You two boys better behave yourselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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