Polygamy is affecting my testimony

[Traveler]

Polygamy is a sin just like homosexuality or lust or, well you get it. You have a right to be bothered by it.

So for you Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses were all as decadent as your garden variety homosexuals?

The Traveler

[u235sentinel]

I have yet to see where it says in the scriptures that polygamy is a sin btw. I'm looking and haven't found that reference. However homosexuality is clearly outlined as a sin.

And IMO, polygamy isn't for everyone. It's something I believe very few can handle. And while Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses all had their issues, they were all very special men who I believe did their very best to treat their wives as best they can. I'm sure there were days where the wives had to remind him to take out the trash, bless the children or even repair the home.

Even though the church doesn't practice this today, it's still part of the doctrine. It's important to remember that we're always growing and learning more about God and the gospel. This is part of our training for the eternities.

[Jim108]

Polygamy is lust and adultery put together. Is polygamy a sin in your church? Yes or no. I would love to here your answer.

[Islander]

Polygamy is lust and adultery put together. Is polygamy a sin in your church? Yes or no. I would love to here your answer.

There IS NO polygamy in the Church today. There is ONLY the marriage of one woman and one man. The Temple covenant is predicated on this union and absolute chastity and faithfulness to one's spouse. Any extramarital relationship IS a sin and grounds for excommunication from the Church or disfellowship.

[LDSVALLEY]

There IS NO polygamy in the Church today. There is ONLY the marriage of one woman and one man. The Temple covenant is predicated on this union and absolute chastity and faithfulness to one's spouse. Any extramarital relationship IS a sin and grounds for excommunication from the Church or disfellowship.

Polygamy is not a sin, Prophets and men of God have practiced it for centuries off and on throughout the New and Old Testament. If it were a sin they could not be righteous in Gods eyes, nor would he ever allow the use of it ever.

We misinterpret the issue. Polygamy is not a sin, neither is being homosexual a sin.

What is a sin is when we go against Gods direction. I could be an upstanding homosexual man, hold leadership callings etc as long as I am not an active homosexual. Having relations with someone who is not our wife or husband in Gods eyes is a sin.

Islander is correct that anyone practicing Polygamy now is sinning because it breaks the covenant of marriage which God has decreed for this time.

My understanding of the temple marriage is a man who loses his spouse in death and has the temple covenant in place is able to marry a second spouse in the temple without breaking the covenant to the first. While a widow can not do the same, they must choose eternal marriage to one or the other for the afterlife. This, to me, further enforces the concept that Polygamy is not a Sin in and of itself.

Another way to look at it is this. I am a Priesthood holder, I am able to baptize people into the church when I have authority from the church leaders to do so. Me baptizing people is not a sin however me baptizing people without having the authority to do so is.

Polygamy is the same thing.

By the way I am glad our dispensation does not have it.

[Palerider]

Polygamy is lust and adultery put together. Is polygamy a sin in your church? Yes or no. I would love to here your answer.

Jim Jim Jim.....you keep going down that path....we get you turned around and there you go right back down again.....do we really need to answer that....and plus I gave you the links to websites....weeks ago.....

[u235sentinel]

Polygamy is lust and adultery put together. Is polygamy a sin in your church? Yes or no. I would love to here your answer.

If you are a Christian then how do you resolve your own question with the prophets?

Or are you atheist?

Currently the LDS Church does NOT allow for polygamy and if you do practice you are kicked out for good.

You might want to speak with my wife about polygamy. She doesn't share your views. She's the one who mentioned to me that she's in favor of it because she would love to share the load with family life.

As far as lust and adultery goes, I don't believe you have a clear understanding of what polygamy is. You see the sex and that's all.

There is far more to polygamy than having sex with several partners. Speaking of which, aren't we all here because a couple of people had sex :-)

[bytebear]

Polygamy is lust and adultery put together. Is polygamy a sin in your church? Yes or no. I would love to here your answer.

The answer is in The Book of Mormon, Jacob 2:

27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;

28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.

29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.

30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

Read chapter 30 very carefully. If God commands it, we do it, if he doesn't we don't.

[Jim108]

OK, I got you guys on fire. Polygamy is a sin to the traditional Christian. I just wanted to bring out this difference. I agree that we can disagree. However, I would say that your church's position on this subject is very skewed. Thank you for letting me debate the other side of this subject. I know most of you want me to go away for good, but that would shelter you to only one view. Or is that what you want?

[bytebear]

OK, I got you guys on fire. Polygamy is a sin to the traditional Christian. I just wanted to bring out this difference. I agree that we can disagree. However, I would say that your church's position on this subject is very skewed. Thank you for letting me debate the other side of this subject. I know most of you want me to go away for good, but that would shelter you to only one view. Or is that what you want?

Skewed compared to what? To traditional Christianity? Yes, I will give you that. To western culture? yes. To Biblical patterns and practice, No. To the Book of Mormon? No (see above).

Edited July 11, 2009 by bytebear

[beefche]

OK, I got you guys on fire. Polygamy is a sin to the traditional Christian. I just wanted to bring out this difference. I agree that we can disagree. However, I would say that your church's position on this subject is very skewed. Thank you for letting me debate the other side of this subject. I know most of you want me to go away for good, but that would shelter you to only one view. Or is that what you want?

What is the church's position? This is what I found:

President Gordon B. Hinckley stated the following about polygamy in the Church's October 1998 general conference:

“I wish to state categorically that this Church has nothing whatever to do with those practicing polygamy. They are not members of this Church. Most of them have never been members. They are in violation of the civil law. They know they are in violation of the law. They are subject to its penalties. The Church, of course, has no jurisdiction whatever in this matter.

"If any of our members are found to be practicing plural marriage, they are excommunicated, the most serious penalty the Church can impose. Not only are those so involved in direct violation of the civil law, they are in violation of the law of this Church. An article of our faith is binding upon us. It states, 'We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law' (Articles of Faith 1:12).”

[bytor2112]

OK, I got you guys on fire. Polygamy is a sin to the traditional Christian. I just wanted to bring out this difference. I agree that we can disagree. However, I would say that your church's position on this subject is very skewed. Thank you for letting me debate the other side of this subject. I know most of you want me to go away for good, but that would shelter you to only one view. Or is that what you want?

But Jim....you haven't debated anything. You have offered nothing, except the Gospel according to Jim. How about logically connecting the dots or maybe attempt to support your assertions via scripture.

[Justice]

Polygamy is lust and adultery put together. Is polygamy a sin in your church? Yes or no. I would love to here your answer.

Whatever God commands is right.

Yes? No?

[u235sentinel]

What is the church's position? This is what I found:

President Gordon B. Hinckley stated the following about polygamy in the Church's October 1998 general conference:

"If any of our members are found to be practicing plural marriage, they are excommunicated, the most serious penalty the Church can impose. Not only are those so involved in direct violation of the civil law, they are in violation of the law of this Church. An article of our faith is binding upon us. It states, 'We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law' (Articles of Faith 1:12).”

You are correct. You are also aware that the church never denounced polygamy as doctrine. Also if a mans wife dies he can marry a second wife in the temple. What does that mean?

It means he has two wives in the eternities.

Let's not forget that Joseph Smith restored ALL the teachings of the gospel. This includes Priesthood, Temples and yes, Polygamy.

No we don't practice it at this time. But do we believe it?

You bet we do. It's doctrine no matter how people spin it.

[LDSVALLEY]

I for one don't wish for you to go away. The Lords plan allows and needs opposition in all things. As light needs darkness, as peace needs war, as virtue needs vice, as love needs hate, as lds.net needs you!

Sorry, really but you sounded high and mighty as well as a bit miffed so I couldn't resist.

But in truth I don't wish you away, I agree that you in this case simply put out blanket questions and the rest did any debating done. You have not "lit my fire" in any way, I never get upset over other people using the agency that God gave them to disagree with what I believe to be true beliefs.

Let me restate one fact however. Polygomy is not and has never been a sin. God himself at various times in the scriptures has allowed the practice to be carried out as it fit his purposes. If Polygomy is a sin then God himself would be guilty of instituting it. Since he is without sin ergo polygomy is not a sin. Going by past history the Lord could reinstate it if a future need arouse.

Polygomy is NOT a sin, but practicing it without the Lords consent is. Also the article of faith number 12 tells us we are to obey the laws of the land. Since Polygomy is illegal in the United States the Lord resinded that direction. If he didn't he would be causing the church to violate article 12 which would violate what he holds us responsible for.

Polygomy is no different then baptism. Baptizing someone is not a sin. Baptizing someone without proper authority to do so is.

But please feel free to disagree, God gave you that right.

[beefche]

You are correct. You are also aware that the church never denounced polygamy as doctrine. Also if a mans wife dies he can marry a second wife in the temple. What does that mean?

It means he has two wives in the eternities.

Let's not forget that Joseph Smith restored ALL the teachings of the gospel. This includes Priesthood, Temples and yes, Polygamy.

No we don't practice it at this time. But do we believe it?

You bet we do. It's doctrine no matter how people spin it.

Really? I believe that when God commands it, then we should practice it. But, I'm not convinced it's actual doctrine. What about those women who were sealed to Joseph Smith after he was murdered, yet they had other husbands? Does that mean that women can have more than one husband?

I'm not denying the church has practiced it throughout the ages. I'm not denying that God has commanded it. But I'm also not convinced that it will be part of the Celestial Kingdom. I think it's one of those things that we will have to wait to find out. I do not have a testimony of polygamy, nor do I think I need to. If I am commanded to practice it, then I will seek a testimony.

[u235sentinel]

I for one don't wish for you to go away. The Lords plan allows and needs opposition in all things. As light needs darkness, as peace needs war, as virtue needs vice, as love needs hate, as lds.net needs you!

Polygomy is NOT a sin, but practicing it without the Lords consent is. Also the article of faith number 12 tells us we are to obey the laws of the land. Since Polygomy is illegal in the United States the Lord resinded that direction. If he didn't he would be causing the church to violate article 12 which would violate what he holds us responsible for.

Polygomy is no different then baptism. Baptizing someone is not a sin. Baptizing someone without proper authority to do so is.

But please feel free to disagree, God gave you that right.

Just in case someone misunderstands my position. I completely agree with this. It's not a sin but practicing it without the Lords consent definitely is.

[u235sentinel]

Really? I believe that when God commands it, then we should practice it. But, I'm not convinced it's actual doctrine. What about those women who were sealed to Joseph Smith after he was murdered, yet they had other husbands? Does that mean that women can have more than one husband?

I'm not denying the church has practiced it throughout the ages. I'm not denying that God has commanded it. But I'm also not convinced that it will be part of the Celestial Kingdom. I think it's one of those things that we will have to wait to find out. I do not have a testimony of polygamy, nor do I think I need to. If I am commanded to practice it, then I will seek a testimony.

The D&C has been approved as church doctrine. And since polygamy is there......

FYI... you don't need a testimony of polygamy. At this time it's not required :-)

To be honest, even I would have difficulty at this time living it.

And as far as women having more than one husband... I've heard that from anti-mormons before. And every time I hear it without a verifiable reference. So I can't give them any credibility without a reference.

[foreverafter]

Polygamy in every society in the history of the world has been an "abomination", a "whoredom", & a "gross crime", as the Book of Mormon describes it in Jacob 2, except in rare cases when it is authorized by God & the man is truely righteous. It is a common natural man carnal desire to have more than one wife. Just another form of adultery & spouse abuse.

A righteous man would never desire more than his one living wife. He would be repulsed by polygamy & how it would deeply injure his wife. As Abraham was repulsed by having to sacrifice his son Issac. He would only do it if his wife asked him to because God asked her to & then he would let her choose who it would be, someone she would be comfortable with, to preserve her feelings as much as possible. He would not go out looking around or date or seek another wife. His 1st wife would always come 1st & never be neglected. Modern Prophets have taught so much more about marriage now & the correct relationship between husband & wife & the equality of women than they did in the 1800's when women were not treated as equals in marriage. Most women reluctantly went along with polygamy in the 1800's because they were told that they had to be sealed in this life to a man, which we now know is not true, they can be sealed later if they don't find a good man in this life.

If polygamy ever becomes legal again than it will be the 1st time in the history of the world that a major society allowed it for both men & women. For now women's equality is acknowledged & honored for the 1st time & it would go both ways if it becomes legal. How much crazier would society be if men had multiple wives & women had multiple husbands with all the children in between.

Monogamous marriage will most likely be the norm in the Celestial Kingdom because most men have trouble being worthy & faithful to their one wife without wondering eyes, thoughts, hearts & bodies & thus will be lucky to get to be with her in the next life if she still wants him.

Edited July 12, 2009 by foreverafter

[ruthiechan]

Really? I believe that when God commands it, then we should practice it. But, I'm not convinced it's actual doctrine. What about those women who were sealed to Joseph Smith after he was murdered, yet they had other husbands? Does that mean that women can have more than one husband?

I'm not denying the church has practiced it throughout the ages. I'm not denying that God has commanded it. But I'm also not convinced that it will be part of the Celestial Kingdom. I think it's one of those things that we will have to wait to find out. I do not have a testimony of polygamy, nor do I think I need to. If I am commanded to practice it, then I will seek a testimony.

There's more than one type of sealing. I am sealed to my parents, my siblings, but I'm not married to them.

[Just_A_Guy]

And as far as women having more than one husband... I've heard that from anti-mormons before. And every time I hear it without a verifiable reference. So I can't give them any credibility without a reference.

See here, which draws largely on Compton's In Sacred Loneliness.

I don't always agree with Compton's conclusions, but his research and his use of primary sources are top-notch.

[ruthiechan]

His 1st wife would always come 1st & never be neglected.

Oh really? So, the second wife is a lesser wife?

Modern Prophets have taught so much more about marriage now & the correct relationship between husband & wife & the equality of women than they did in the 1800's when women were not treated as equals in marriage. Most women reluctantly went along with polygamy in the 1800's because they were told that they had to be sealed in this life to a man, which we now know is not true, they can be sealed later if they don't find a good man in this life.

In the early days it was supposed to be a calling, and husbands were pretty upset about this calling. It was the women who said, if the Lord told you to do it, do it. The women didn't have equal rights, and had some serious issues making ends meet without husbands because of their men being murdered. So, it was used as a method of survival for the members of the Church.

[foreverafter]

Does that mean that women can have more than one husband?

Ask Heavenly Father about that. He will teach & show you all you want to know about it. As D&C says, not everything has been revealed yet about plural marriage.

[Moksha]

Polygamy is lust and adultery put together. Is polygamy a sin in your church? Yes or no. I would love to here your answer.

Jim, I think this is something that has changed over time. You know the answer in the past since polygamy was practiced.

Today's answer is that it is not practiced and the Church affirms that this practice is wrong. They have recently spent beaucoup bucks stating emphatically that the only matrimony that is holy, is that between a man and a woman. They did not leave any wiggle room by saying it was between a man and women.

Hope that helps.

[Wingnut]

Monogamous marriage will most likely be the norm in the Celestial Kingdom because most men have trouble being worthy & faithful to their one wife without wondering eyes, thoughts, hearts & bodies & thus will be lucky to get to be with her in the next life if she still wants him.

Wow. No wonder you don't know anything about marriage. You don't even understand the basic concept of resurrection. In the Celestial Kingdom, men (and women) will all have eyes, thoughts, hearts, and bodies.