Pressure to get married.

[bmy-]

It's been bugging me lately.. i've been dating my girlfriend for 3 years this coming December. Yes, that's a long time.. especially for us LDS. Yes, we're basically 21 going on 30 in the eyes of the LDS population.

Why all the pressure to get married? They don't want us to make a "mistake" seems to be the common response.. but if we did make a mistake it's not like they would find out anyways. That's a personal choice and none of their business. People (read: women in the ward ) seem more interested in fantasy romance than they do in reality..

I personally think it's foolish to rush into marriage. I'm a full-time college student who is going to be under a mountain of debt in 18 months. Why would I marry the girl I love when I can't support her much less support myself? I work 12-15 hours a week and that barely pays my gas to and from school. It's a bit of a rant I suppose.. sorry The divorce rate is quickly rising in the LDS Church and I really do think the church culture has a lot to do with it.

I shouldn't let it bother me.. but in Relief Society my girlfriend is constantly under fire about it. It's a well designed trap, I think.

Edited August 30, 2009 by bmy-

[Guest Godless]

As much as I respect the LDS church, I can't help but cringe whenever I hear of young LDS women getting married before the age of 20, or young LDS men getting married within a year of returning from a mission. This is a decision with lifelong (and eternal, according to your beliefs) ramifications. Such a decision should not be taken lightly. It truly pains me to see people rush headfirst into such a heavy commitment. I applaud you for being patient and taking things slow.

[mightynancy]

My usual response to unwanted advice: "Thank you! Hey, next time there's an opening on the Committee to Run My Life, I'll send for your resume!" Deliver this with a smile and lots of enthusiasm. I used to get a lot of child-rearing (and conceiving!) advice, and now, not so much. :)

Your sweetie may also wish to fan herself with her hand while looking incredulous. "Whatever made you think you could ask such a personal question?" Then she should walk away, chuckling.

I like to think that people are well-meaning, but have a woeful lack of boundaries.

[NeuroTypical]

I'm with Mightynancy. Put those folks on the defensive.

"Actually, we were thinking about getting hitched in Vegas by Elvis. Wanna help buy the plane tickets?"

"Well, actually, I'm gay and she's a lesbian. We just hang out to keep nosy people out of our business."

"No, we're worried too many people will try to make up for their own tragic shortcomings by living vicariously through us." (Deliver with pointed eye contact)

LM

(p.s. - kudos for actually wanting to be able to support a wife before getting married.)

[Guest missingsomething]

Here here

If you arent 100% sure.. ok no really probably like 90% sure... then no reason to jump.... it could only lead to resentment and problems down the road.

But I got news for you.... once you get married.... the pressure will be to have a child.... and once you have a child... it will be to have another one... on and on and on...

[Traveler]

It is all a matter of misplaced priorities. If someone has found a person that they sure is their eternal partner – why even think that it is better face the challenges before you without the respect, trust and covenant that honors each other.

I cannot speak for everyone but I know for myself that from my early youth I was taught to treat every young woman I met with great respect and to prepare myself for the young woman I would marry in the temple.

With all that in my past, I am grateful to those that taught me to prepare and look forward to marriage. Blending my life with another person has been the most difficult and frightful thing I have ever faced and continue to face after over 35 years of marriage. I have been forced to make changes in my personal preferences, concepts and ideals in order to form an eternal partnership.

Looking back there are some things I have learned – if someone is not ready for the respect, trust and all that comes with a marriage that they should not be engaged in serious dating because they are most likely not ready to consider the personal sacrifices necessary even for a true friendship based on love.

I am sure someone will say that love and friendship can be enjoyed without real commitments – and my answer is that if someone is not changing their life because of their relationship then love is not an engine of that relationship. If you are going to do what you are going to do then love is not an element – it is something you do not understand and something to which you have no claim to.

If there is no one in you life worth sacrificing for – I really do not believe you are living a life worth your own effort; let alone anyone else’s. The problem is not that someone marries too young or too early but because they marry with no intent of sacrifice and commitment.

The Traveler

[talisyn]

It's been bugging me lately.. i've been dating my girlfriend for 3 years this coming December. Yes, that's a long time.. especially for us LDS. Yes, we're basically 21 going on 30 in the eyes of the LDS population.

Why all the pressure to get married? They don't want us to make a "mistake" seems to be the common response.. but if we did make a mistake it's not like they would find out anyways. That's a personal choice and none of their business. People (read: women in the ward ) seem more interested in fantasy romance than they do in reality..

I personally think it's foolish to rush into marriage. I'm a full-time college student who is going to be under a mountain of debt in 18 months. Why would I marry the girl I love when I can't support her much less support myself? I work 12-15 hours a week and that barely pays my gas to and from school. It's a bit of a rant I suppose.. sorry The divorce rate is quickly rising in the LDS Church and I really do think the church culture has a lot to do with it.

I shouldn't let it bother me.. but in Relief Society my girlfriend is constantly under fire about it. It's a well designed trap, I think.

The world does not have to know you made a mistake in order for a mistake to be made....if a couple in the woods sin just a little bit and no one is there to hear it is it still a sin?

I agree, it is foolish to rush into marriage. Rushing would be what, a 3 or 4 month engagement? Or a 3 year commitment? And you're gonna be under a mountain of debt for the next 5-10 years, which would take your unmarried relationship to 8-13 years without marriage.

Church culture hasn't changed much in the past 40 years (back when there was much less divorce)...so think about it a while. Why do you not want to marry this girl? Why are you making excuses? Why are you doing your part in keeping this nice young woman from an eternal companion (hopefully that will be you)? Why is she putting up with this? If the two of you have reached an accord that empowers the both of you then more power to you, stand tall in your unmarried responsible state. But if you are simply in a rut then buy an ATV and see what happens

[SMG]

Well, now you know part of the reason some of us "less active" adult female members avoid Relief Society as much as we can. I was a very happy woman when I was called as a primary worker. ~_^

[Moksha]

Bmy, you will be much wiser at age 25, and able to celebrate the LDS Rite of becoming a Menace to Society, than you are now.

:)

[prisonchaplain]

Haste makes waste, but s/he who hesitates is lost. I waited until I was 31, and it's worked for me, because I know it was God's timing. We do run into a few couples like us (maybe it's a Baby Buster generational curse???), but often those parents are dealing with their "oops...I thought we finished this 10-years ago" child.

I hear all the irritation with meddling church folk, but I also lament the numerous churches in which people who've been there for years, don't really know each other because they're so careful NOT to meddle.

[bmy-]

Looking back there are some things I have learned – if someone is not ready for the respect, trust and all that comes with a marriage that they should not be engaged in serious dating because they are most likely not ready to consider the personal sacrifices necessary even for a true friendship based on love.

Sacrifices.. sometimes I feel like that's all I do It's been tough and I really hold no fairy tale views of relationships. Give and take isn't half of it.. and we aren't even married yet. 35 years of marriage.. that's awesome. Keep going strong.

I agree, it is foolish to rush into marriage. Rushing would be what, a 3 or 4 month engagement? Or a 3 year commitment? And you're gonna be under a mountain of debt for the next 5-10 years, which would take your unmarried relationship to 8-13 years without marriage.

Church culture hasn't changed much in the past 40 years (back when there was much less divorce)...so think about it a while. Why do you not want to marry this girl? Why are you making excuses? Why are you doing your part in keeping this nice young woman from an eternal companion (hopefully that will be you)? Why is she putting up with this? If the two of you have reached an accord that empowers the both of you then more power to you, stand tall in your unmarried responsible state. But if you are simply in a rut then buy an ATV and see what happens

I'm going to be under a mountain of debt without a job or degree. I fully intend to marry the girl when I finish college. I just think it's unwise to enter into marriage without a stable financial situation. That's relationship suicide it appears.

I did think about it a while.. every day. My answer is this: Sometimes what you want is not what is best. Sometimes you have to walk through hell for a heavenly cause. It's not easy or fun for either of us -- it's awful -- but necessary. Just wish people would look at marriage realistically..

Bmy, you will be much wiser at age 25, and able to celebrate the LDS Rite of becoming a Menace to Society, than you are now.

I don't know if i'll quite make it to 25 Then again.. it creeps up fast, doesn't it? I'm still wondering where years 19 and 20 went to..

Thanks for every ones thoughts. It was just weighing down on me. I laughed quite a few times reading this thread today.

[Maxel]

I ran across an interesting article yesterday, written by an Evangelical Christian about the tendency to marry later. I like how he said that marriage is a "formative" institution.

You have the oppurtunity to marry. You have someone who might be willing. While it's noble not to want to go into a relationship without a mountain of debt- are you planning to wait until you're debt-free to get married? Do you plan on never paying a mortgage to own a house- are you going to rent-to-own or something else? Good questions to consider.

It's financially wise to enter into marriage; you cut costs that way (between the two of you; obviously you would have to be paying more than if you were living by yourself). It's sexually wise to enter into marriage- humans are sexual creatures; it's natural and the ultimate physical expression of love. It's spiritually wise to enter into marriage- there are certain paths we cannot walk until we're sealed in the temple to an eternal spouse.

There will always be plenty of reasons not to get married- the question is, which is more important in the great scheme of things: working for worldly goals, or working for eternal goals? It is foolish to forego the former for the sake of the latter, but it is more foolish still to forego the latter for the sake of the former.

Ultimately, the desicion is up to you, but I'd wager the Lord's advice ought to matter. Have you approached Him about it?

[RiversideGuy]

It's been bugging me lately.. i've been dating my girlfriend for 3 years this coming December. Yes, that's a long time.. especially for us LDS. Yes, we're basically 21 going on 30 in the eyes of the LDS population.

Why all the pressure to get married? They don't want us to make a "mistake" seems to be the common response.. but if we did make a mistake it's not like they would find out anyways. That's a personal choice and none of their business. People (read: women in the ward ) seem more interested in fantasy romance than they do in reality..

I personally think it's foolish to rush into marriage. I'm a full-time college student who is going to be under a mountain of debt in 18 months. Why would I marry the girl I love when I can't support her much less support myself? I work 12-15 hours a week and that barely pays my gas to and from school. It's a bit of a rant I suppose.. sorry The divorce rate is quickly rising in the LDS Church and I really do think the church culture has a lot to do with it.

I shouldn't let it bother me.. but in Relief Society my girlfriend is constantly under fire about it. It's a well designed trap, I think.

Don't marry the young lady if you don't want to; however, it is best not to seriously date her for three years without some sort of understanding. She may wish to find someone else who is more established. She may not wish to work. She may not wish to hang in there until thirty.

[talisyn]

bmy, all I'm saying is you're gonna be in debt for a few years at least. Let's say 3 years. That's 1095 days total, not counting a leap year. A lot can happen in over one thousand days.

My fiance graduated with over 65K in college debt. If we waited until most of that was paid down I'd be an old woman, and I want babies, darn it! I recommend crunching the numbers again, including her income, and seeing what you come up with.

[NeuroTypical]

I was 26 yrs old when I got married. I still miss the looks of concern and borderline fright in one or two of my relative's eyes. I swear, it was like they were half-expecting me to extend my claws and jump at their throats.

(I'm probably exaggerating quite a bit - but I wish I could go back and time so I could stand next to them and go "RAAAAAAHR!" at them to see if they would jump...)

LM

[bmy-]

There will always be plenty of reasons not to get married- the question is, which is more important in the great scheme of things: working for worldly goals, or working for eternal goals? It is foolish to forego the former for the sake of the latter, but it is more foolish still to forego the latter for the sake of the former.

Ultimately, the desicion is up to you, but I'd wager the Lord's advice ought to matter. Have you approached Him about it?

Long ago. Unfortunately.. I never get a straight answer.

Don't marry the young lady if you don't want to; however, it is best not to seriously date her for three years without some sort of understanding. She may wish to find someone else who is more established. She may not wish to work. She may not wish to hang in there until thirty.

I'm not holding her next to me.. had she wanted to leave she could. If she wants to leave now she could. I think it is best to date for a long time and have a long engagement. I've got an eternity to go.. why rush it?

bmy, all I'm saying is you're gonna be in debt for a few years at least. Let's say 3 years. That's 1095 days total, not counting a leap year. A lot can happen in over one thousand days.

My fiance graduated with over 65K in college debt. If we waited until most of that was paid down I'd be an old woman, and I want babies, darn it! I recommend crunching the numbers again, including her income, and seeing what you come up with.

The problem isn't the debt.. it's the debt with no job or degree to pay it off.. or time to work to pay it off. I'm in college and I will be full-time for the next 20 months or so.

The 'plan' so far is this:

-I live in New Orleans while going to LSUmed for a year and a half

-She lives in Alabama for 12 months and finishes her computer animation degree

-She moves to Louisiana and stays with my Grandma when I have 6 months to go

-Engaged with a few months to go before I finish school

-I'm in a situation where I can support her and I and get bills paid

I don't see any real holes in it except that it takes a while. I've waited 3 years.. I can't wait 18 months more. Thankfully she buys into the plan 100% but I really am open to suggestions because if it can be better then it can change.

Again.. I want to stress.. please be gentle to the 'serious couples' because it's tough on us. We seriously considered switching wards and keeping our identity secret

[talisyn]

awww bmy, we're just trying to help! If your girl is with you on this then go for it, you have a good plan. Background from my point of view-I waited 2 years for my fiance to finish his psych degree in Philly while I was here in Idaho. It was a very very very long 2 years.

[namastic4488]

I am doing a research paper on your religon and have a few questions about your relgion. A number of people will be reading this so it is also a way to get your point of view out. It will not be bias but it will have a few tough questions. What I like about your post is that you seem like a normal person with normal issues. I do come from a Christian background and have actually sat through your sermon a few times with friends so it wont be completly from the start....but borderline.

[bmy-]

awww bmy, we're just trying to help! If your girl is with you on this then go for it, you have a good plan. Background from my point of view-I waited 2 years for my fiance to finish his psych degree in Philly while I was here in Idaho. It was a very very very long 2 years.

I completely expect it to be a very long year without her.. but a necessary one. Thankfully with the internet being as awesome as it is we'll only be physically separated. Was it worth the long 2 years?

I am doing a research paper on your religon and have a few questions about your relgion. A number of people will be reading this so it is also a way to get your point of view out. It will not be bias but it will have a few tough questions. What I like about your post is that you seem like a normal person with normal issues. I do come from a Christian background and have actually sat through your sermon a few times with friends so it wont be completly from the start....but borderline.

I'm a convert And a fairly recent one at that.

[BenRaines]

BMY, my son was in his junior year when he married. Still has a year and a half to go. Wife has a degree. She works full time, he works part time. Grants and student loans cover the rest. It can be done. Many have done it before. Pray about it and go with the instructions given.

Don't let anyone rush you but don't let financial matters delay you either.

Ben Raines

[talisyn]

I completely expect it to be a very long year without her.. but a necessary one. Thankfully with the internet being as awesome as it is we'll only be physically separated. Was it worth the long 2 years?

I'm a convert And a fairly recent one at that.

Well yes it was worth the wait. 10 years would have been worth the wait. But a few months would have been better

[Traveler]

Sacrifices.. sometimes I feel like that's all I do It's been tough and I really hold no fairy tale views of relationships. Give and take isn't half of it.. and we aren't even married yet. 35 years of marriage.. that's awesome. Keep going strong.

Sacrifice? The root meaning of the word sacrifice is to make sacred - it is modern thinking that has come to the conclusion that it means to "give up" or through away. I like the idea of keeping something as sacred (consecrate it) rather than giving it up or getting rid of it.

The Traveler

[annamaureen]

I definitely agree that nobody should be pressured into such an important decision as marriage. However, as far as finances go, if you want to wait to be perfectly financially stable, it may never happen. There will always be something - debt, mortgage, a sudden accident, etc. Just a thought.

[Hemidakota]

It's been bugging me lately.. i've been dating my girlfriend for 3 years this coming December. Yes, that's a long time.. especially for us LDS. Yes, we're basically 21 going on 30 in the eyes of the LDS population.

Why all the pressure to get married? They don't want us to make a "mistake" seems to be the common response.. but if we did make a mistake it's not like they would find out anyways. That's a personal choice and none of their business. People (read: women in the ward ) seem more interested in fantasy romance than they do in reality..

I personally think it's foolish to rush into marriage. I'm a full-time college student who is going to be under a mountain of debt in 18 months. Why would I marry the girl I love when I can't support her much less support myself? I work 12-15 hours a week and that barely pays my gas to and from school. It's a bit of a rant I suppose.. sorry The divorce rate is quickly rising in the LDS Church and I really do think the church culture has a lot to do with it.

I shouldn't let it bother me.. but in Relief Society my girlfriend is constantly under fire about it. It's a well designed trap, I think.

Ignored them...