wanting to convert...can't get past some things...

[danceinthedark]

Hello there, so my basic story is that I married someone who is LDS...we were married at my church (Lutheran) I was raised in the Lutheran church and have a strong testimony of Jesus Christ. I pretty much attend LDS services with my husband. I don't dislike being Lutheran, but I desire to share the same faith as my husband. When we got married we talked a lot about our faiths and I never expected him to convert to my faith...I love him as he is and have alway had respect for his faith. He felt the same way towards me-we got married with the expectation that both faiths would be a part of our lives.

However, now with the addition of our wonderful son I desire us to be all of the same faith. We had him blessed in the LDS church. I wanted that for him and our family. My biggest road block to converting is two fold: I don't have a testimony of Joseph Smith...I've read too much about him and can't see him as a prophet. The other part is silly...I could never give up coffee...alcohol I can do without, coffee is not only an addiction that is physical and psychological-but cultural as well. Just as it is cultural for LDS persons not to drink coffee; it is part of my culture to drink it. Lutherans all gather 'round the coffe pot after service. My family drinks it...I can't imagine not sitting down with my mother over coffee.

Anyway, I wondered if anyone had any insights to offer me...I've discussed this all with my husband obviously...but he doesn't take me seriously...as I have dabbled with this same conflict long enough I think he figures I'll never really decide. Sorry for the long post....

[beefche]

I was baptized at age 19--and I LOVED iced tea. It was a thing that my best friend and I did--we would get together and whatever we did, we always had iced tea. I still miss the taste of it sometimes. But, for me, I decided that I did have a testimony of the church and that meant that the Word of Wisdom (the health code) meant it was given by God. I don't understand why tea and coffee are excluded, but I trust God that He knows. Perhaps it's just a test of faith and there isn't anything wrong with them.

Regardless, it's a cultural thing. It may be difficult at first to give up. Physically because there is a physical addiction, but culturally as well. it might prove helpful to bring a drink with you to family gatherings, especially as they get used to the idea.

But, once you decide to do it (if you do), then don't apologize for it. Just tell them it's something you've decided and don't expect them to follow.

[jameslentz]

the number one thing here is to desire this for yourself...not for your husband and not just for your family's sake. That is noble to want that but the truth is that if you convert for the wrong reason it won't "stick", and could lead to problems down the road.

That being said there have been many who have come looking with the exact same concerns that you have. I would offer this suggestion....try to gain a testimony of the Book of Mormon. Read, ponder and pray asking HF if it is true. Follow what Moroni exhorts in Moroni 10:3-5. A testimony of the Book of Mormon and the witness of it's truth given by the Holy Ghost is what is important. No one can give that to you except for the Holy Ghost....and if you ask in faith you will receive an answer.

The reason that is important is that if you know the Book of Mormon to be true...then it naturally will fall in place that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God since he translated it and was the tool used to bring it to the world. You can also follow the same process in gaining a testimony of him as a prophet that you follow for the Book of Mormon.

Prayers and peace be with you and your journey.

[beefche]

Your issues with Joseph Smith are a different matter.

In all honesty, it sounds to me like you are not ready to be baptized. I get the impression that you want to join the church for a social reason--so your family can go to the same church together.

Do you have a testimony that the Book of Mormon is scripture? Do you believe that the Book of Mormon is God's word to us? Do you believe it was written by God's power? Do you believe that God's priesthood has been restored to earth today? Do you believe that Thomas Monson is a prophet today?

I would say that if you can answer yes to those questions, then you have a place to work on your belief of Joseph as a prophet. If your answer to those questions are no, then you have other things to work on.

Are you currently meeting with the missionaries? If not, invite them over to discuss some of your questions. I think your husband would respect you enough to allow you space to make this decision on your own and at your own pace.

[NeuroTypical]

Hi dance,

Wanting to raise your kid in a one-faith household is admirable. Kudos to you. Also, kudos for not just setting aside your unresolved doubts for the sake of family harmony. Sometimes that works out, sometimes it causes problems down the road.

So, if you figure Joseph Smith was not a prophet, then you probably figure the Book of Mormon is not scripture. It's pretty logical: If the BoM is correct and true, then Joseph Smith was a prophet. And vice-versa. So, I have two suggestions:

1) Read the Book of Mormon, with sincere intent and desire to learn of it's truth. Don't just read it like a book, read it like you'd suggest an athiest read the Bible.

After you've read it, pray to God about it. You have a strong testimony of His son, so it follows that you believe in Him as well. Ask Him to tell you what nobody on earth can or will - is the Book of Mormon a true and correct record? Did Christ really visit the Americas?

And then, see what He says.

This process took me several years.

2) While you are doing step #1, it is probably worth your time to go to Gospel Principles Sunday School instead of the more-in-depth Gospel Doctrine class. In GP class, you hear the basic, foundational tenets of our church and beliefs. It's the perfect place to see what's different from your Lutheran roots - and what is exactly the same. It's the perfect place to ask questions, and to test your own beliefs to see what they're based on.

So, these are no small two steps. But if you'd really like to gain a testimony of the restored gospel, these are two good steps.

LM

[mlbrowninwa]

First off, welcome to the forum!! Let me start by telling you that I am a recent convert myself. The issue with coffee is part of the Words of Wisdom that was given to Joseph Smith. Your husband I'm sure has been over all of that with you and for someone that is investigating the LDS faith coffee may seem to be kind of harmless of the things that we are advised not to use. Smoking and drinking to many are easy to understand and there are clear lines linking the use of these as harmful to ones health. The issue of coffee and tea the lines blur quite a bit in my opinion. Before joining the church my daily routine involved two trips to Starbucks as well as always having coffee during the day at work. I too enjoyed sitting down with my parents over coffee for many years.

However, despite this I really felt I was being drawn to the church by something. So as part of my investigation I decided before I joined to give up coffee and tea. I am from the south and believe me I think coffee was harder to stop than when I gave up smoking several years earlier. That told me that coffee was a very addictive drink. But when i did it, I felt so much better and my mind was so clear I can't even describe it. After breaking that habit I began to realize that if I was to ever gain a testimony of the church that I needed to start putting faith in Heavenly Father and Jesus. You may look at it now as something you can't live without, but believe me, you can and blessing truly come from following the Words of Wisdom.

The part about Joseph Smith is a bit harder. I do have a testimony that he was a prophet of God just as Thomas S Monson is today. Is that to say all the prophets or apostles down the line or that Joseph Smith was perfect? No it isn't. During my investigation of the church I too came across many things that I would have to question about Joseph Smith. However I can find the same amount of questions regarding many great religious figures throughout history, not just LDS leaders. To further answer that question you will need to pray about it. Feel free to ask any questions you may have on here. There are many members that will be more than happy to help answer your questions. I would also recommend searching some of the other treads. Your answer may already be on here.

[Maureen]

Welcome dance! I also grew up Lutheran and my husband was brought up Mormon but is now Agnostic. I think it is possible to have a home and raise children when the parents have different beliefs. Some think that it is not wise, but I think it teaches children to be respectful to others of different beliefs. You have been a family so far without joining the LDS church. You can teach your children Christian principles with both faiths. Don't join for the wrong reasons or if joining will cause unnecessary troubles in trying to assimilate into the Mormon culture. You can be a good family will both faiths.

[danceinthedark]

Thanks for all the responses. I agree with all the suggestions to really read the Book of Mormon and pray...after all I know that is what the missionaries would have me do :-) I think it is hard for me to get started...

I also don't think I want to join the church for social purposes...I have a genuine interest to learn more...it's not just that I want to make the hubs happy.

A big part of my faith formation happened in my teen/college years...the leaders around me taught me to question everthing and to be non-conformist...so I think that is part of my problem in buckeling down and reading the Book of Mormon...I don't want to because someone told me to. Shouldn't God just tell me if it is true? I shouldn't have to do anything...that is the Lutheran in me ;-)

[cougarfan]

It doesn't sound to me as though you are ready to commit to baptism. If I were you I would still read the book of Mormon even if you don't commit to baptism.

At the very least, you will be more knowledgeable about the church and its teachings and understand some of the reasons why people do what they do or say what they say in the church. I'm a big believer in learning. I really don't see any harm in at least reading the book of Mormon whether you commit to join or not. You will at least be better informed about your decision. And you will have an easier time making your decision with the extra knowledge.

I have investigated a lot of religions over the years and have found that it is hard to really understand people's beliefs unless you become familiar with what they call scripture. Recently I read the Quran and engaged in give and take with some Muslims. It was extremely enlightening. I didn't switch religions (I'm still LDS) but at least reading their scripture and asking them why they believed what they do really opened my eyes. I found it interesting that they kept telling me to just keep reading the Quran and Allah would draw me to Islam. It didn't work on me and they were not able to answer my questions with satisfaction. But I now have a really strong appreciation for Islam. And I understand why people convert to Islam. I did not understand that before i actually read and studied their text.

The book of Mormon doesn't say anything about coffee and tea though which is one of your stumbling blocks. Frankly, i don't understand that either anymore. Science has come down on the side of all the benefits of tea (polyphenols) and there are also studies out on the benefits of coffee. Tobacco and alcohol are bad and are a no brainer. But coffee and tea? The word of wisdom actually only says "hot drinks" and in the early years of the church that was literally the way it was interpreted. So maybe we are wrong in associating "hot drinks" with coffee and tea. Maybe you will find the answer on that one because I haven't been able to so far. Right now I think it is just obedience more than anything else. And if you join you will be expected to be obedient to the rules, just like any religion. :)

[beefche]

To clarify: Coffee and tea have been restricted by a prophet of the church. Hot drinks, regarding the Word of Wisdom, does mean coffee and tea. One of our modern prophets clarified this.

[ADoyle90815]

It's a good thing you're taking your time with this decision, as I personally feel that LDS missionaries and others put too much pressure on people to be baptized before they're fully ready. If they allowed people to decide if and when they're ready to live the culture as well as believe in the church, there would be more converts who stay active for life.

Edited September 26, 2009 by ADoyle90815

[Bini]

I agree with you, ADoyle90815.

I have a tough time not drinking coffee too. It's so tasty and delicious! But I know it's something that must stop in order for me to progress with the Gospel etc etc. So you're not alone.

[Mahonri]

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not a club or a social gathering.

It is the beginning of the Kingdom of God upon the earth.

I would suggest some serious study and most importantly, prayer to find out for yourself if The Book of Mormon is the word of God.

I testify that it is the word of God. I testify that you can know it is too!

Once you know it is true, you will come to realize what a young 17 year old boy was told in Palmyra, New York, by an angel named Moroni, That of his name (Joseph Smith) would be spoken good and evil throughout the entire world. Imagine that!

What 17 year old do you know with no formal education that could say, "someday, my name will be known throughout the entire world and that both good and bad would be spoken of his name"?

The fact of the matter is, the name Joseph Smith is familiar in many nations of the earth.

The fact that you have read things that don't endear you to him, testifies of the fact that evil would be spoken of him. You've already proven for yourself that he truly is a prophet of God!

As for the coffee... well, that's the social club thing of some churches...

Would you put a cup of coffee between you and having your family sealed to you forever?

It is your decision.

That's the way God planned this test.

I know that Joseph Smith is a prophet of God. I know The Book of Mormon is God's word.

I also know that the Word of Wisdom was inspired and came from God.

Search, Ponder and Pray, it is the only way that you will truly come to know

Edited September 27, 2009 by Mahonri

[bytor2112]

I love to read about history, particularly biography's. The truth surrounding historical figures is often bent and slanted based on the bias of the author. This is especially true regarding Joseph Smith. I have read books that make him sound like he could walk on water and some that make it seem like he should be chained under water. There are many issues, doctrines and bits of obscure history that are best understood by the power of the Holy Ghost. I would suggest praying about it. It is necessary to believe that Joseph Smith was a Prophet or our faith is just a sham, it is not necessary to believe that he was without human failings.

As for coffee....I was a couple pots a day addict and felt just as you do. A little here and a little there....that's how the Lord works and that's how you get over things and figure them out...as you are ready. Good luck!

Edited September 26, 2009 by bytor2112

[Thethuthinnang]

My grandpa was as true believing as they come and drank coffee every morning.

I think some "rules" are just "guidelines," but that's just me maybe.

[bytor2112]

My grandpa was as true believing as they come and drank coffee every morning.

I think some "rules" are just "guidelines," but that's just me maybe.

My friends grandpa was a Bishop and drank, coffee, whiskey and used tobacco, smoke and chew.

[beefche]

Ok, let's be clear here:

In order to be baptized into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, one will have an interview in which one will be asked various questions. Questions such as "do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior" "do you believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet?" These questions will include questions regarding the Word of Wisdom and I wouldn't be surprised if one is asked if he/she drinks alcohol, uses tobacco, drinks coffee/tea. In order to be baptized, one has to at least make a sincere attempt to stop consuming things that are against the WoW.

[pam]

My friends grandpa was a Bishop and drank, coffee, whiskey and used tobacco, smoke and chew.

You are talking about being a Bishop in another religion right?

[Thethuthinnang]

My friends grandpa was a Bishop and drank, coffee, whiskey and used tobacco, smoke and chew.

Whoo, that might be a bit much. :lol:

[danceinthedark]

Mahonri, seriously do you really think that by being threatening-you will help me any? Seriously...and, I am not considering membership for social reasons...I've got friends thank you. Also, I didn't want this to turn into a WoW debate..."hot drinks" vs coffe and tea blah blah....I know that for me if I were to follow the WoW I would have to give up coffee...so no need to debate that.

CLEARLY I am not ready to be baptised...I know that. Thanks all for comments-I've got lots of prayer ahead of me!

[bytor2112]

You are talking about being a Bishop in another religion right?

One would think.....Delta, Utah.......probably 55 year ago, so the story goes.

Edited September 26, 2009 by bytor2112

[mesmith]

Dance, I was baptized 2 weeks ago and I stopped drinking coffee in the second week of August. I had been drinking coffee for over 30 years, would drink it all day and into the evening. I understand the cultural aspect, it's hard at first to go to a restaurant and NOT order coffee! It CAN be done, however. I am honestly getting better rest now and it is amazing that it was as easy for me to quit as it was. Building your faith, studying scriptures, being with good friends who understand - all those can and will help you give up coffee as long as you have a deep-down desire. BTW - if you drink as much as I used to, you will likely experience some headaches for a little while but the more restful sleep more than makes up for it!

[cougarfan]

One would think.....Delta, Utah.......probably 55 year ago, so the story goes.

Yeah I think years ago it was not as big of a deal as it is now. My grandparents on both sides drank coffee but my parents never did. It wasn't until Heber J. Grant's era that it was made part of the temple recommend interview questions. And as you probably already know, coffee was one of those items on the list of things the pioneers brought across the plains.

I think that there was always a bit of tension between whether it was "a principle with a promise" not given as a commandment as opposed to an actual commandment. I'm not sure when it became a "commandment" officially, because the way section 89 reads it was not originally given as a commandment but as a principle with a promise.

And we haven't even discussed the part about eating meat sparingly (which nobody follows any more). :) But that is off topic anyway.

[talisyn]

If people really understood how totally wonderful hot chocolate with little marshmallows is then there wouldn't be such a fuss with coffee.

Take your time, get things straight. Your husband would probably like you happily Lutheran than unhappy former LDS.

[zippy_do46]

I for one had a hard time reading the Book of Mormon. We were challenged to read the book a couple of years ago by our Stake President in Conference. I knew the church was true but there are some parts of the book that would pull at my heart. When they started talking about the wars and the women and children I would start crying. I would skip over and then go back and read. It took me along time but I finished a week ahead of time. The struggle of men and women in the BoM spoke to me. I knew this was a word of God. The people were people that had to make choices just like you are making. When they made the choice lightly their road became rocky. I am glad that you are looking into everything. :0) Just remember that God qualified Joseph Smith. He was called by God. Men called by God in the Bible or the Book of Mormon were not always the cream of the crop. They came from all walks of life. May you be blessed with the truth you need.

Edited September 27, 2009 by zippy_do46
hit the wrong button lol