Alcohol in moderation

[Guest xforeverxmetalx]

sorry if this has been asked somewhere already, or if this is the wrong place...

I'm mostly just asking in curiosity, what's so wrong with alcohol in moderation? for example a drink on New Years or at fancy dinners, a beer every once in a while, etc.

personally I've never had a sip of alcohol, only a taste of 0.0% beer, which was horrible.

I'm just curious what I could tell some friends of mine, because a lot of them drink and ask me about why I don't.

my thoughts were that "just one sip" can lead to a lot worse, but I'm just curious because that doesn't seem like such a big deal for those people that can drink only on occasion.

[Misshalfway]

We live the WofW because God asked us to. We live it because if we sacrifice and discipline our lives this way, God opens other blessings to us such as protections and hidden knowledge and health. I guess I see it a lot like the covenant God made with Samson that he not cut his hair. It's not really a question of whether or not haircuts are bad. Capeesh?

[Guest xforeverxmetalx]

that makes sense. I was just wondering if there was a reason besides just that we're supposed to.

[Maureen]

...what's so wrong with alcohol in moderation? for example a drink on New Years or at fancy dinners, a beer every once in a while, etc....

xforeverxmetalx, IMO, there is nothing wrong with drinking alcohol in moderation. But then I am non-LDS. :)

M.

[allredcon]

You can find better antioxidants and diuretics in other stuff. Just one sip is enough my friend. You know how much it took me to finally say "ah, i've had that much, might as well ahve more"? one sip.

and I became an alcoholic. I know, I'm an extreme example. But don't take the chance

[jadams_4040]

that makes sense. I was just wondering if there was a reason besides just that we're supposed to.

We are suuposed to because God knows where achohol leads; and so do we. he knows where drugs lead, he knows where illicit and immoral sex leads to, he knows where profane language leads to, he knows all these things lead to loss of the spiritual companionship that brings blessings into our lives; have you ever in your life heard anyone ever drink alcohol and "not" get a "loose" toungue"? And a loose tongue comes from feeling good, feeling good is desirus of more feeling good and more feeling good leads to many very serious problems over time, the breakup of relationships, the loss of family, the loss of respect, and most worst of all the loss of spiritual companionship that would open the door to every blessing he has promised us.:)

[Hemidakota]

that makes sense. I was just wondering if there was a reason besides just that we're supposed to.

Revisit and learned the lesson from Abram [Abraham] when he was told to offer his son Isaac to GOD. Did Abram ask GOD why or did he just listen and did what GOD told him to do?

[Misshalfway]

that makes sense. I was just wondering if there was a reason besides just that we're supposed to.

I didn't say we do it ONLY because we are suppose to.

You need to spend a little time pondering Section 89. The answers are in the verses.

3 Given for a principle with promise, adapted to the capacity of the weak and the weakest of all saints, who are or can be called saints.

4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—

So....its for the weakest of the saints and its meant as a warning and a protection. It won't take long for you to see the problems that come from abusing the human body.

18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, ashall receive bhealth in their navel and marrow to their bones;

19 And shall afind bwisdom and great ctreasures of dknowledge, even hidden treasures;

20 And shall arun and not be bweary, and shall walk and not faint.

21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the adestroying angel shall bpass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

And here at the end are the promises....and also this end idea that living the wofw will be like the lambs blood on the doorways of the Israelites. The destroying angel will pass us by. Think about that.

[Guest xforeverxmetalx]

I understand all that, and that's why I don't drink myself, that's what I tell people when they ask.

personally I try to question everything, even religious topics, which so far helps me come to a greater understanding, and the concepts make sense. if there's a known reason for doing something, I want to know it at least generally. but for things like blacks getting the priesthood later than the rest of us, and in this case drinking just a small amount, I just accept and hope I'll find out eventually.

I know alcohol in general isn't good at all for the body, but anyone who uses mouthwash has had some [it gets absorbed through the mouth], and we don't ban mouthwash as far as I know. so that's already a bit of alcohol.

I'm mostly trying to look at it from the perspective of a nonmember, who doesn't believe in the WoW, the scriptures, or even the Bible. most of the people I talk to about it have trouble understanding that I won't even have one beer, and I want to be able to explain it to them in a way that isn't just "well, it's how my religion works and it's what I believe in, you can't understand it unless you believe what I do"

[Misshalfway]

Oh. I am sorry I didn't fully understand the purpose of your question.

Aside from discussing the obvious reasons....(addiction, doing dumb stuff when you are drunk, beer can make you fat, drunk driving, teen binging, fetal alcohol syndrome, etc. ), what is wrong with saying "I don't because I have made a religious commitment not to" or "I am serious about taking care of my health"? Or you could even joke and say that "moderation is for sissy's". :)

If your friends reason that its ok in moderation, then you can confidently agree with them. But you can also explain that you are making the extra sacrifice for spiritual reasons and that your life choices are in no way a commentary on theirs. And then you smile and sip your soda.

Beyond that you don't really have to explain yourself. Perhaps you could ask them why they think you should drink? Or maybe why drinking in moderation is better than not drinking at all? Make it a discussion and let them figure it out. If they want to talk about what spiritual benefits you are experiencing, then you can get into the simple scriptural explanations or your personal experience.

I think its great that you are around social pressure and you are still remaining strong. That is great!

[Guest xforeverxmetalx]

Oh. I am sorry I didn't fully understand the purpose of your question.

Aside from discussing the obvious reasons....(addiction, doing dumb stuff when you are drunk, beer can make you fat, drunk driving, teen binging, fetal alcohol syndrome, etc. ), what is wrong with saying "I don't because I have made a religious commitment not to" or "I am serious about taking care of my health"? Or you could even joke and say that "moderation is for sissy's". :)

If your friends reason that its ok in moderation, then you can confidently agree with them. But you can also explain that you are making the extra sacrifice for spiritual reasons and that your life choices are in no way a commentary on theirs. And then you smile and sip your soda.

Beyond that you don't really have to explain yourself. Perhaps you could ask them why they think you should drink? Or maybe why drinking in moderation is better than not drinking at all? Make it a discussion and let them figure it out. If they want to talk about what spiritual benefits you are experiencing, then you can get into the simple scriptural explanations or your personal experience.

I think its great that you are around social pressure and you are still remaining strong. That is great!

mostly the reason I give them, when they ask why I won't have just one drink is, why should I? it's just a drink really...

I wouldn't call it so much pressure as in, they're just curious and ask about why I don't do various things. luckily for me they usually are respectful of it. :] so it was pretty easy hanging out with them at metal festivals in Germany while they're getting drunk and I'm just having Coke

[beefche]

Most of my friends are non-LDS. Some of them are not church goers (they believe in God, they just don't attend church). None of them have ever had issue when I say I don't do xxx because of my religion. Coffee and tea are usually the topics that cause them to ask, "why not?" I simply explain to them I don't know the reason why...I believe that God told us not to drink it. They don't understand it, but accept it.

[NeuroTypical]

Here's a secular reason: A segment of the population seems just genetically geared towards getting addicted to alcohol. "Moderation in all things" is fine and dandy, but addictions overrule agency. Many people just simply do not possess the ability to stop at a moderate amount.

Drinkers tend to ignore this game of russian roulette. Of course they're not gonna buy this as a good reason not to drink. So, it's a good reason for me, but it's useless in a conversation with other drinkers.

LM

[LonelyGargoyle]

"Alcohol in Moderation" ??? Are you kidding??? The fun starts as one leaves the moderation stage to inundation.

[annamaureen]

This is probably an overly simplistic answer, but... it's easier to say "don't do it at all" than to say "well, you can do it a bit," because then where is the line drawn between moderation and too much? It's best just to not open ourselves up to it.

[Misshalfway]

I generally find it interesting that when I visit a doctor they ask me if I smoke and drink and how often and they have asked if I drink coffee.

I used to work in a dental practice and you could tell the kids who drank too much soda because their teeth were damaged.

I think if you talk about health reasons, moderation has some valid arguments. But if you understand the concept of sacrifice and how that works with regards to spiritual blessings, then I think the WofW can make sense to people. I actuallly think people respect it, even if they think its a little extreme.

[will227457]

Here's a secular reason: A segment of the population seems just genetically geared towards getting addicted to alcohol. "Moderation in all things" is fine and dandy, but addictions overrule agency. Many people just simply do not possess the ability to stop at a moderate amount.

Drinkers tend to ignore this game of russian roulette. Of course they're not gonna buy this as a good reason not to drink. So, it's a good reason for me, but it's useless in a conversation with other drinkers.

LM

+1 on what he says

a drink or two in and of its self is not a bad thing, doesnt make anyone a bad person....like LM said some people don't have an off switch....modern revelation has stated that it is better to avoid these types of things all together...so as the prophets have requested we don't partake.....

the WOW is however only recently been enforced, the no alcohol/tabacco/hot drinks.... thing was not always a hard and fast rule in the church...

[NeuroTypical]

Well, "enforced' is a bit of a strong term. It's true that you can't get a temple recommend if you don't follow the WoW these days, and it's true that this is a recent (last 50 years?) thing. But it's not like we excommunicate people out of church for drinkin' or smokin'.

LM

(Maybe if they show up to church drunk and throw up on someone.)

[lattelady]

jadams_4040: when you asked "Have you ever in your life heard anyone ever drink alcohol and 'not' get a 'loose' tongue?" were you saying or insinuating that every person who drinks alcohol--even in moderation--gets a loose tongue? that it comes with the territory of drinking? I hope that wasn't what you were saying--I just wanted to make sure I wasn't misunderstanding your statement.

[pam]

+1 on what he says

a drink or two in and of its self is not a bad thing, doesnt make anyone a bad person....like LM said some people don't have an off switch....modern revelation has stated that it is better to avoid these types of things all together...so as the prophets have requested we don't partake.....

the WOW is however only recently been enforced, the no alcohol/tabacco/hot drinks.... thing was not always a hard and fast rule in the church...

Will could you clarify this for me? What do you mean only recently been enforced? I've been a member of the Church for 52 years and I don't remember a time that it wasn't enforced. At least not in any place I've lived and that's been quite a few.

[Misshalfway]

the WOW is however only recently been enforced, the no alcohol/tabacco/hot drinks.... thing was not always a hard and fast rule in the church...

I don't know what you mean by recently.

This is what the D&C study guide says on the subject:

Although the Word of Wisdom was received on 27 February 1833, its acceptance by individual members of the Church was gradual. On 9 September 1851, some eighteen years after it was given, the Patriarch to the Church, John Smith, delivered a talk in general conference on the Word of Wisdom. During his address, President Brigham Young arose and proposed that all Saints formally covenant to abstain from tea, coffee, tobacco, whiskey, and “all things mentioned in the Word of Wisdom” (“Minutes of the General Conference,” Millennial Star, 1 Feb. 1852, p. 35). The motion was accepted unanimously and became binding as a commandment for all Church members thereafter.

Bishops and stake presidents are responsible for determining whether members are worthy to receive Church ordinances such as baptism or those available in the temple or to enter the temple to receive ordinances for others. Keeping the Word of Wisdom is a part of that worthiness.

[flyswatguy]

my piont of view is that a person who has an occasional drink but never more than one or two is stronger than a person who never drinks because of their faith , a balanced attitude that allows for exsposure and with that resistance is stronger than prohabition because theres never any chance to gain experience or build resistance with the latter.

if for some reason you loose your faith you may indeed become a raging alcoholic .

when JS revealed the the word of wisdom it was not given as a commandment but was given as its title suggests a word of wisdom , hence many early lds smoked and drank , salt lake city in its early days had a whisky distilery .

today the church has switched to total prohabition so if you want to have a T/r its no beer for you .

despite being totaly inactive and never having to have T/R interviews i hardly ever drink and if i do never more than two glasses , beer as it happens really does taste like pee . however i do see many people who have no common sense whatsover when it comes to alcohol, for these type of people prohabition is a good idea , it comes down to how socially mature a person is . if you want to relieve stress herbal teas is a much better idea and you don,t end up making a total fool of yourself lying in the gutter after peeing your pants ...

Edited October 16, 2009 by flyswatguy

[ADoyle90815]

As someone who is not LDS, I personally have no problem with alcohol in moderation, as I don't drink to get drunk at all. It's usually something like a glass of wine or a beer with a nice meal, and nothing more than that. One thing about alcohol is that not all of it is burned off when cooking, unless it's baked for a long time, so if that's a concern, then there are many substitutions that work just as well. With mouthwash, there are alcohol free types out there, which could be an option. Alcohol is also in some cold medicines, especially the kinds designed to help you sleep when you've got a cold, but those taste so nasty, most people, including many LDS only use that for medicinal purposes.

[FlyingPurpleMonkey]

If even one sip is bad why does D&C 89 say that strong drink is acceptable for the Sacrament?

[will227457]

Will could you clarify this for me? What do you mean only recently been enforced? I've been a member of the Church for 52 years and I don't remember a time that it wasn't enforced. At least not in any place I've lived and that's been quite a few.

pam you havent been a member long enough

1933, the General Handbook of Instructions listed the Word of Wisdom as a requirement for temple worship, exactly 100 years after the receipt of the revelation by Joseph Smith.

up to that point it was more of a lifestyle guide line......