Hitler's life

[candyprpl]

(not sure if this is the right forum for my question???)

My husband and I watched a documentary on Hitler a few months ago -- it was centered on all the failed assasination attempts. My husband and I tried to discuss why he was allowed(?) to escape these attempts -- how did this fit in God's plan? I'm just curious how some of you would answer this question. To some it might seem like Satan was more powerful than God or that God didn't really care about them who were suffering at the hands of Hitler and his followers.

[pam]

I agree it would appear that way but I would disagree. While I'm sure Heavenly Father was mourning those whose lives were filled with such persecution, humiliation and even death...he still allows agency. Whether for good or for bad.

[Relentless]

Agency.

Because we all have the ability to chose our own paths. There are very few instances where Heavenly Father will intervene and take away someone's agency. (Laban for instance) of course, just because we have agency does not mean we are not also accountable for our actions.

[mnn727]

I agree, due to mankinds Agency which is paramont to Gods plan, he is not really (nor should He be) a "hands-on" God.

Without agency, there would be no reason for this earthly existance.

[hordak]

Ditto, on the agency.

I don't believe God has a plan (in the traditional micro managing sort of way)

Plus life is way more complex then that as well.

War gives us technology, WW2 gave great advances in radar, space exploration,(and therefor satellite communications) perfection of liquid coal and gave Israel back to the Jews.

[Elgama]

ok this is entirely gospel according to me but WW2 brought about some of the most tremendous good as well as the evil and bad, some of my biggest inspirations in my life are people like Mother Maria, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Corrie Ten Booth - even CS Lewis will have been heavily influenced by WW2. I grew up surrounded by people who had fought in the war and could see buildings that had been bombed, the strength my Gran showed in refusing to let Hitler change her life, she did not use an airraid shelter and her daughter was not evacuated, her husband went to war and she took over his business it was run as usual. That carries me through many things in my own life. We also have many technological advances etc Had it ended too early a lot we now have would not exist.

Also we do not know Hitler like Heavenly Father he was an odd man full of many contradictions Iit was a Jewish Officer in WW1 that recommended him for the Iron Cross), many who knew him in real life describe him as kind and thoughtful etc, to us quite rightly he is evil personified but he may not be that way to our Heavenly Father there may be something he sees that we don't

[WindRiver]

Perhaps it was needed to motivate / accelerate the Gathering of Israel and to turn the hearts of the US towards supporting Israel as was prophesied.

[pam]

Hmmm interesting thought.

[Zechariah]

(not sure if this is the right forum for my question???)

My husband and I watched a documentary on Hitler a few months ago -- it was centered on all the failed assasination attempts. My husband and I tried to discuss why he was allowed(?) to escape these attempts -- how did this fit in God's plan? I'm just curious how some of you would answer this question. To some it might seem like Satan was more powerful than God or that God didn't really care about them who were suffering at the hands of Hitler and his followers.

I didn't see the program so don't know what explanations were provided as to why these attempts failed. However, the same kinds of questions could be asked any time an evil is committed by one against another, as to why God doesn't stop or prevent such things, whether it be the case of one abducted and murdered child, or the massacre of millions of people. In answer I can never help but think on Alma 14.

Alma 14: 10-11

10 And when Amulek saw the pains of the women and children who were consuming in the fire, he also was pained; and he said unto Alma: How can we witness this awful scene? Therefore let us stretch forth our hands, and exercise the power of God which is in us, and save them from the flames.

11 But Alma said unto him: The Spirit constraineth me that I must not stretch forth mine hand; for behold the Lord receiveth them up unto himself, in glory; and he doth suffer that they may do this thing, or that the people may do this thing unto them, according to the hardness of their hearts, that the judgments which he shall exercise upon them in his wrath may be just; and the blood of the innocent shall stand as a witness against them, yea, and cry mightily against them at the last day.

[Wingnut]

Corrie Ten Booth

Sorry to be picky -- it's Corrie Ten Boom.

My first thought was also agency. God doesn't interfere with man's or mankind's agency.

Edited December 31, 2009 by Wingnut
d'oh

[pam]

thoguth

Sorry to be so picky..but it's thought.

[Wingnut]

Sorry to be so picky..but it's thought.

[Bini]

Dodging death doesn't necessarily have anything to do with God, I don't think. If you weren't meant to go that day—you weren't meant to go. I guess unless you were a prophet and God had a very special task for you to fulfill, then perhaps, he might step in and spare you from intentional dangers.

[mightynancy]

I don't think that Heavenly Father is a micromanager.

When we talk about Him "letting" things happen, it's a terrible path to be on. I always cringe when some yokel is on TV after the storm, and claims that "God was watching out for me!" If that were true, then God wasn't watching out for the fellow who was washed away in the floodwater.

It's not that I don't believe in the mercies of the Lord, but to ascribe everything to God's will is to take away our own.

[Hemidakota]

(not sure if this is the right forum for my question???)

My husband and I watched a documentary on Hitler a few months ago -- it was centered on all the failed assasination attempts. My husband and I tried to discuss why he was allowed(?) to escape these attempts -- how did this fit in God's plan? I'm just curious how some of you would answer this question. To some it might seem like Satan was more powerful than God or that God didn't really care about them who were suffering at the hands of Hitler and his followers.

Was it called "Hitler" or the one called "The Bodyguard of Hitler"?

[Hemidakota]

(not sure if this is the right forum for my question???)

My husband and I watched a documentary on Hitler a few months ago -- it was centered on all the failed assasination attempts. My husband and I tried to discuss why he was allowed(?) to escape these attempts -- how did this fit in God's plan? I'm just curious how some of you would answer this question. To some it might seem like Satan was more powerful than God or that God didn't really care about them who were suffering at the hands of Hitler and his followers.

We all have a prescribed time to repent. Candy, even if I could go back in time (perhaps another posting later on this very topic of time), I still would not be allowed to change the course of history by assassinating this man. GOD or those assigned would prevent it.

Though, wrong it may sound here, but what was the positive aspect of this man life we gained as a nation or the world? Looking from another angle here.

Edited December 31, 2009 by Hemidakota

[Hemidakota]

I didn't see the program so don't know what explanations were provided as to why these attempts failed. However, the same kinds of questions could be asked any time an evil is committed by one against another, as to why God doesn't stop or prevent such things, whether it be the case of one abducted and murdered child, or the massacre of millions of people. In answer I can never help but think on Alma 14.

Alma 14: 10-11

10 And when Amulek saw the pains of the women and children who were consuming in the fire, he also was pained; and he said unto Alma: How can we witness this awful scene? Therefore let us stretch forth our hands, and exercise the power of God which is in us, and save them from the flames.

11 But Alma said unto him: The Spirit constraineth me that I must not stretch forth mine hand; for behold the Lord receiveth them up unto himself, in glory; and he doth suffer that they may do this thing, or that the people may do this thing unto them, according to the hardness of their hearts, that the judgments which he shall exercise upon them in his wrath may be just; and the blood of the innocent shall stand as a witness against them, yea, and cry mightily against them at the last day.

Awe...perfect explanation.

[Hemidakota]

I don't think that Heavenly Father is a micromanager.

When we talk about Him "letting" things happen, it's a terrible path to be on. I always cringe when some yokel is on TV after the storm, and claims that "God was watching out for me!" If that were true, then God wasn't watching out for the fellow who was washed away in the floodwater.

It's not that I don't believe in the mercies of the Lord, but to ascribe everything to God's will is to take away our own.

It is not always the FATHER who does the intervention but those who are assigned by HIM to that person.

We do know, it is rare even to see HIM personally, as it is rare for HIM to intervene personally. Anyone who is assigned as a ministering spirit, is doing it as an assignment by GOD. And in HIS name they are carryout the very act. So, in a sense, it is correct to state, "God was watching out for me or protected me!"

[TruthSeeker]

I don't think that Heavenly Father is a micromanager.

When we talk about Him "letting" things happen, it's a terrible path to be on. I always cringe when some yokel is on TV after the storm, and claims that "God was watching out for me!" If that were true, then God wasn't watching out for the fellow who was washed away in the floodwater.

It's not that I don't believe in the mercies of the Lord, but to ascribe everything to God's will is to take away our own.

My logic wants to agree with this, but it can't. So are we saying that the Lord does not interfer at all? I have a very recent event that leads me to believe that he does intervene for the purpose of saving people. The event:

Monday morning I was supposed to leave the house for work by 7. For whatever reason, I called in and told them I would come in later, and I slept another hour.(Unusual, happened in the past, but it is not an every day thing) I now planned on leaving the house at 8:30. However, for no reason at all, I just had a feeling I needed to stay home for a while longer, so I sat around in bed for another hour, wide awake, wondering why I was still at home. Well, at 9, my wife had a seizure and I had to call an ambulence. She has never had a seizure before, and I knew that the Lord kept me around the house on Monday so someone could call an ambulence for my wife(we are the only ones in our house).

The question is...why? Why does the Lord allow for some things to happen, and for others not to happen? It seems unfair, right? Nope. It is part of his plan, mingled with the agency of man. That is why His plan is so perfect, and we have to trust in His will.

[NeuroTypical]

how did this fit in God's plan?

Of course there have to be the Hitler-types of the world. Without them, the alternative would be horrible.

For it must needs be, that there is an opposition in all things. If not so, my first-born in the wilderness, righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad. Wherefore, all things must needs be a compound in one; wherefore, if it should be one body it must needs remain as dead, having no life neither death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility.

Wherefore, it must needs have been created for a thing of naught; wherefore there would have been no purpose in the end of its creation. Wherefore, this thing must needs destroy the wisdom of God and his eternal purposes, and also the power, and the mercy, and the justice of God. And if ye shall say there is no law, ye shall also say there is no sin. If ye shall say there is no sin, ye shall also say there is no righteousness. And if there be no righteousness there be no happiness. And if there be no righteousness nor happiness there be no punishment nor misery. And if these things are not there is no God. And if there is no God we are not, neither the earth; for there could have been no creation of things, neither to act nor to be acted upon; wherefore, all things must have vanished away.

LM

[sleepless3977]

2 Nephi Chapter 2 LM

this was the scripture that came to mind while reading this thread, only you beat me to it.

[pam]

My logic wants to agree with this, but it can't. So are we saying that the Lord does not interfer at all? I have a very recent event that leads me to believe that he does intervene for the purpose of saving people. The event:

Monday morning I was supposed to leave the house for work by 7. For whatever reason, I called in and told them I would come in later, and I slept another hour.(Unusual, happened in the past, but it is not an every day thing) I now planned on leaving the house at 8:30. However, for no reason at all, I just had a feeling I needed to stay home for a while longer, so I sat around in bed for another hour, wide awake, wondering why I was still at home. Well, at 9, my wife had a seizure and I had to call an ambulence. She has never had a seizure before, and I knew that the Lord kept me around the house on Monday so someone could call an ambulence for my wife(we are the only ones in our house).

The question is...why? Why does the Lord allow for some things to happen, and for others not to happen? It seems unfair, right? Nope. It is part of his plan, mingled with the agency of man. That is why His plan is so perfect, and we have to trust in His will.

The key there was listening to that little voice telling you to stay home just a little longer. I would wager the majority of us would have gone on into work. He probably intervenes or at least attempt to intervene more than we give Him credit for but are we listening?

Edited January 1, 2010 by pam

[mnn727]

It is not always the FATHER who does the intervention but those who are assigned by HIM to that person.

We do know, it is rare even to see HIM personally, as it is rare for HIM to intervene personally. Anyone who is assigned as a ministering spirit, is doing it as an assignment by GOD. And in HIS name they are carryout the very act. So, in a sense, it is correct to state, "God was watching out for me or protected me!"

Hmm, totally non-scriptorial and not an LDS belief.

[mnn727]

My logic wants to agree with this, but it can't. So are we saying that the Lord does not interfer at all? I have a very recent event that leads me to believe that he does intervene for the purpose of saving people. The event:

Monday morning I was supposed to leave the house for work by 7. For whatever reason, I called in and told them I would come in later, and I slept another hour.(Unusual, happened in the past, but it is not an every day thing) I now planned on leaving the house at 8:30. However, for no reason at all, I just had a feeling I needed to stay home for a while longer, so I sat around in bed for another hour, wide awake, wondering why I was still at home. Well, at 9, my wife had a seizure and I had to call an ambulence. She has never had a seizure before, and I knew that the Lord kept me around the house on Monday so someone could call an ambulence for my wife(we are the only ones in our house).

The question is...why? Why does the Lord allow for some things to happen, and for others not to happen? It seems unfair, right? Nope. It is part of his plan, mingled with the agency of man. That is why His plan is so perfect, and we have to trust in His will.

There are service dogs who are trined to detect seizures in their 'people' before they happen, perhaps on some unconcience level you were doing that.

[talisyn]

Well...were the attempts really that great? A lot of things can be seen as fate, but a lot of other things can be seen as simply not picking the best way to do a job.

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