Is doctrine important?

[prisonchaplain]

It doesn't really matter what you believe, as long as you are true to what you know. It's more important to give your neighbor a need cup of water than to disect the fine points of the Godhead vs. the Trinity. It's more important to pray for a testimony than to study the scriptures.

IMHO, these attitudes exist in most societies today, and in most religions. We could debate whether each sentence is true or false, but my purpose is to stir up a more general discussion about knowing and understanding in relation to doing.

[WmLee]

It doesn't really matter what you believe, as long as you are true to what you know. It's more important to give your neighbor a need cup of water than to disect the fine points of the Godhead vs. the Trinity. It's more important to pray for a testimony than to study the scriptures.

Interesting . . . Chaplain I always enjoy your thoughts and questions. If we would spend less time arguing over the doctrine and working together on the principles and applying them to our lives wouldn't we, together, draw closer to our Savior?

[Just_A_Guy]

Doing only gets us so far, if we don't know why or for whom we're doing it.

[bytor2112]

This is off topic a bit...BUT, I find it very annoying that so many seem to confuse culture with doctrine. Recently a young man went to the Temple, he is 29 and has some "challenges". After his visit to the Temple, he joined the group for dinner and ordered a soft drink for dinner and a woman told him that he shouldn't go to the Temple if he drinks soda. He was a bit shocked and there are countless examples of cultural ideas that are sometimes believed as doctrine.

Truth, diamond hard truth...as Elder McConkie would say..is important.

Edited February 3, 2010 by bytor2112

[hordak]

From an LDS stand point, being judge on knowledge, works and whether you you have accepted the knowledge if you knew i would say doing is fine without knowledge.

As a father i'm much more impressed when my son cleans his room because it needs to be done then when my daughter cleans hers for candy.

I don't think it's the doing, or even fully understanding, but the intent.

[bjshideler]

The debate of whether there is a right way. So, I take that either there is ONE right way or there is no specific right way at all. If there is no right way at all, then everyone that does good will go onto and see their god or gods that they believe in. That would mean that the Hindus are right, the Buddhists are right, the Muslims are right, all the sects of Christianity are right, and even the athiests are right. Now this does not seem logical to me. If there is no right there is no wrong.

That seems a lot like the plan of Satan to me. He wanted to make that there was no wrong that could be done so that all of the children of God would return. Then whatever the current opinions of the leaders and the people that gain popularity govern the direction of those people

Paul talked of this in Ephesians 4:10-14. He showed that God's way has an organization to protect his children from false teaching, and that this means of teaching his children would be in place until all came unto the Son in unity in faith.

While we believe that all who do good will be rewarded (D&C 76) shows that while good people will receive glory, only those that are true and faithful to the testimony and covenants to God the Father and Jesus Christ will dwell with them.

[LuckOfTheIrish]

Personally, I feel that doctrine is important, but more important than that is the interpretation of it. I see doctrine in terms of mystic parables, metaphors, and stories from an age completely different from our own. Very little dcotrine is explicit in it's meaning and is not always black and white, at least in my understanding. I've seen many people whou could quote scripture after scripture, but conducted themselves in a differing manner. I couldn't tell you the section or book of most scriptures if you recited one, and I must admit I struggle sometimes with the syntax in the Book of Mormon, but I know many of the stories and the lessons they provide and I try to apply those teachings to my own life.

[beefche]

It doesn't really matter what you believe, as long as you are true to what you know. It's more important to give your neighbor a need cup of water than to disect the fine points of the Godhead vs. the Trinity. It's more important to pray for a testimony than to study the scriptures.

IMHO, these attitudes exist in most societies today, and in most religions. We could debate whether each sentence is true or false, but my purpose is to stir up a more general discussion about knowing and understanding in relation to doing.

I disagree with your premise, but am not sure if I can articulate why. When Jesus came, He was sent to fulfill the law. But, part of what He did was explain correct doctrine. The New Testament are essentially letters from the Apostles correcting doctrine. If it wasn't important to have correct doctrine and instead just live what you believe, then why did God go to so much trouble to have scriptures?

[pam]

Beefche, that was kind of my thought. If what we know is incorrect doctrine; how does that help us to live by something that is incorrect?

[Elgama]

for me this is the most importnt to keep the 2 main commandments - everything else within whatever religion you hold even LDS falls into place.

And I do think its more important to do doctrine than know it, and its possible to do it without a great understanding

[rameumptom]

Being book smart doesn't save a person. Christ condemned the Pharisees and Sadduccees, who were book smart, but blind guides.

Jesus taught that not everyone who says, "Lord, Lord" shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that does the will of the Father.

While it is important to study the gospel and ponder what the deepest possible meanings of the scriptures are, we must be careful that it doesn't replace true Christianity. James told us that the important things are to take care of the widows and poor. It is also important to not "look beyond the mark" as the Book of Mormon's Jacob warns. When we overly focus on every little tittle, we miss the big picture.

If we as Christians are spending our time trying to destroy other Christians, simply because we cannot agree on Godhead/Trinity, then we are doing God a disservice. Instead, we ought to focus on the things that unite and lift up the children of God.

I believe that a Protestant who spends his life serving the poor has a much better chance at a glorious resurrection than a Mormon who spends his time attacking other Christians' beliefs (and vice versa). To be a true Christian means bearing His cross in the manner he taught. While Christ attacked his enemies on occasion, 90% of his work was caring for others and lifting them up. It is much too easy to focus on the 10%, and distort the gospel Christ taught.

[prisonchaplain]

To throw a wrinkle into the discussion--scriptures warn us to be slow to seek the position of teacher--for teachers will be held to a higher standard. Could it be that the knowledge we gain in our houses of worship is a precious treasure? And, perhaps it is sometimes better to gain a little at a time, and be responsible for it, than to learn great quantitities of information, but fail to meditate on it, and apply it?

[pam]

I would agree with that. That's why I like the saying "Line upon line, precept upon precept."

[Seminarysnoozer]

My teenage daughter last year had a crush on a famous individual that will go unnamed. It got to the point that she would pretend she knew this person well enough to imagine what that person would say to her in different situations and she even acted as if she actually had a relationship with him. (I know she doesn't read this so I can embarrass her more) She even named children and guessed what they would look like... you know typical crush ... I'll admit I even went through those phases myself. I had to stop it though when she started to talk to his picture and she got mad at me when I suggested she didn't even know this guy. The whole thing dissipated when she saw on the news one day that he had a fight with his girlfriend and then had another girlfriend within a few weeks. She was distraught about the whole thing but it was a perfect opportunity to explain that those feelings are normal but they are meant to be used on real future relationships. There is no sense having your heart broken over fake relationships. She later told me how "stupid" (her words) she was to take the whole thing so seriously and then got rid of anything she had that reminded her of him.

My point in sharing this is, true doctrine allows us to have a true relationship with God and in the end that will be more meaningful than a one way relationship. "Knowing" someone like you know them on TV or in the movies is a lot different than actually knowing them in person, or in spiritual terms, direct spirit to spirit contact. The Holy Ghost testifies of true doctrine, a relationship that is different than just reading about it or hearing about it.

[Moksha]

It's more important to give your neighbor a need cup of water than to dissect the fine points of the Godhead vs. the Trinity.

Giving a needed cup of water should be part of any Christian doctrine. The giving of the cup is the path of Jesus. The other would be a signboard seen along the path.

[Palerider]

I have always felt that if everyone would practise their religion and live it to their best....our world might be a better place to live.

[jadams_4040]

It doesn't really matter what you believe, as long as you are true to what you know. It's more important to give your neighbor a need cup of water than to disect the fine points of the Godhead vs. the Trinity. It's more important to pray for a testimony than to study the scriptures.

IMHO, these attitudes exist in most societies today, and in most religions. We could debate whether each sentence is true or false, but my purpose is to stir up a more general discussion about knowing and understanding in relation to doing.

Why of course and that is so true of some of our doctrine is to be honest, virtues, compassion, charity,e;t;c.....I think most christians do agree on this stuff; but there are some points of doctrine that also must be excecuted, i;e... baptism,repentance,sacrament, {communion},faith,prayer,preaching without charge. e;t;c....:)

[RipplecutBuddha]

I absolutely agree with what has been said here. (you all earn a gold star )

The goal of the gospel of Jesus Christ is to have us accept and use as much truth as possible in our lives. Most of the truth we need deals with our behavior, attitudes, and personal thoughts. As such, we have a great amount of flexibility in what we do with the truth we have.

However, there is truth revealed from God that deals with how we worship him, and the things he asks us to do specifically in order to make full use of the grace offered to us from Jesus Christ. In those instances, which largly make up ordinances and covenants, we cannot adjust them to our liking, or change what they mean to accomodate our own personal ideas, or to *gasp* try to keep from offending someone.

Christ himself has said repeatedly that the gospel is a two-edged sword. It is divisive in its very nature and design. The reason is that truth is, also by nature, exclusive. While we as individuals correctly want to see all our friends and neighbors up in heaven with us, and we want to be up there with them, the truth is that many will not be there....we may not be there.

1+1=2 <---truth. You can express that mathematical truth in any number of ways, but there's only one correct answer to that expression. 1.999 is wrong, just as 2.00001 is wrong, just as Connecticut is a wrong answer.

When Jesus said narrow is the gate and straight the way that leadeth to eternal life, he meant it. Further, when he said that the shepherd only enters at the gate, he was in effect expressing that even he must follow the rules he is asking us to follow.

We can be friendly, we can fellowship with other faiths, and we need to. However, we cannot do so at the expense of the truths God has revealed to us. We cannot change the doctrines we believe in just to 'fit in' better with the social scene.

Truth by definition is exclusive and cannot change. We don't dare be offensive or rude about our beliefs, but neither should we be apologetic hand-wringers about them. Jesus has said what he has said, and he will make no apologies for what he has said. If someone is truly offended by that, they should take it up with him.

[prisonchaplain]

Excellent thoughts thus far. So in light of the general agreement that God wants us to be good to our neighbors and strangers and even love our enemy, and that God will judge us according to what we know and how we used the truth we have, what say ye to this: Sometimes we can be so 'right' that we are wrong!

[DB37]

It doesn't really matter what you believe, as long as you are true to what you know. It's more important to give your neighbor a need cup of water than to disect the fine points of the Godhead vs. the Trinity. It's more important to pray for a testimony than to study the scriptures.

IMHO, these attitudes exist in most societies today, and in most religions. We could debate whether each sentence is true or false, but my purpose is to stir up a more general discussion about knowing and understanding in relation to doing.

I have found myself feeling largely the same. It seems like so many religious groups these days just want to attack and tear down the others.

To me, this extends beyond "Christian" groups, as well. Most religions, as far as I know, indicate some level of personal or divine accountability and showing love for other people. Despite the obvious hypocritical actions of many of these groups who attack other religious folks (not just Christian anti-Mormons, but how about the ongoing conflict between Jews and Muslims, Muslims and Hindus, etc.).

To me, I feel like all religious groups need to band together, because the world is quickly being filled with militant atheists who don't believe in anything. If religious groups fight against each other, it only gives atheists, agnostics, etc. more fodder to attack religious groups. ("Religion is just an excuse for conflict..."). I think you're completely right that differences in doctrine are not as important as furthering the similar goals that so many of these groups share.

To be completely cliche: can't we all just get along?

[DB37]

But to expand on my previous post, I think doctrine is important. How can we do the will of the Savior if we don't know what that will is? However, I think that groups get to hung up on the differences in doctrine and don't concentrate enough on the similarities. The differences ARE important, but the similarities are even more important, in my opinion.

[prisonchaplain]

Ironically, I actually believe we have gotten much better at cooperation that in times past. It's just that in a generation that has embraced post-modernism, even with these improvements, any statement of fundamental truths seems overly confident. And yet, what faithful LDS would not express total confidence in, say, the Articles of Faith?

[Traveler]

Ironically, I actually believe we have gotten much better at cooperation that in times past. It's just that in a generation that has embraced post-modernism, even with these improvements, any statement of fundamental truths seems overly confident. And yet, what faithful LDS would not express total confidence in, say, the Articles of Faith?

PC. You know that this is a most important notion with me. I believe many miss the significance of this thought. However, there are two very underpinning concepts of faith. The first is the understanding that religion is not a Sunday thing. It is not just a brotherhood – sisterhood thing but the faith to reach out to all G-d’s children. The second is that we are all brothers and sisters – and not just brought together by religion.

I am so thankful for PC and his understanding that reaching out is not a doctrine thing. It is a person to person thing not dependent on doctrine but on human value. Reaching out in the spirit of Christ is not cramming doctrine down everybody’s throat. The compassion of G-d and his willingness to die is not for the sake of doctrine – it is for the sake of soles.

It is not about saving doctrine – it is about saving souls. There is a wonderful dichotomy that takes place. That is we reach out to other by being better ourselves – not by trying to “talk” them into being better. By being better we give ourselves and we sacrifice ourselves. Not only does this lift our spirits but it also teaches us of Christ and his sacrifice for us. Through this sacrifice others seeking enlightenment and a better way are also provided strength like unto an oasis in a barren place. And thus it is that we all become “joined” together.

But there is among the “faithful” an opportunity to discuss doctrine. Not to prove one better (smarter or more knowing of scripture) than another but that we may be inspired and enlightened to G-dly things. Any discussion that brings someone closer to Christ that we may take upon us his name (act like him) is the doctrine we should all seek because it is that doctrine whereby we become “one” in and with Christ. It is not the doctrine that is argued with scripture but that doctrine that is demonstrated by deeds of love for others that brings all unto Christ and makes us all his.

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

Traveler, if I read you right, doctrine should make our lives better. What a glorious contrast to the ancient tradition of destroying those we deemed a threat to true doctrine!

[Moksha]

Traveler, if I read you right, doctrine should make our lives better. What a glorious contrast to the ancient tradition of destroying those we deemed a threat to true doctrine!

Now that we no longer burn others at the stake or conduct trials-by-drowning, we can examine the doctrine for its truths.