R rated films lead kids to smoking/alcohol/violence

[Windseeker]

Windseeker, how so? Can you share your experience?

I understand having to make certain decisions for young children as they struggle with self-mastery, but I still feel that self-mastery has to be the main goal - and this only works if you start self-mastery training from very very young when the stakes are still very low - e.g. the choice between drinking soda versus drinking water; it is easier to say "I forbid you to drink soda" but I tend to state ad nauseum the ill effects of soda and health benefits of water and see what they choose. This has been working for my kids since they've been old enough to understand what I'm saying. Of course, I don't put out dangerous choices on the table - I mean, they don't have to choose between soda, water, and rum, for example. So, it's still in a controlled environment.

If I truly left it up to my kids at this point, they wouldn't go to seminary, or mutual/activities. They would spend all day playing the xbox and eating junk food. There are many things they would do right and there are many areas I have 100% trust in them, but it's not all areas.

I was a punk with morals while growing up and had some wonderful trusting parents. I attended parties that had drugs, drinking, sex and never partook of any of it. I thought it was fun but in hindsight it was a waste of time and it was foolish. I had some crazy crazy non-LDS friends, who all respected and supported my beliefs.

Now flash forward to being a parent. It finally dawned on me....my kids aren't me. I don't allow my kids to go to these types of parties. I never thought I'd ever do this but I told my 15 year old daughter recently she could not spend the night with one of her friends. Her friend has abandoned her twice now, going off with a boy to have sex in an alley and usually drinks or smokes weed on the weekend. Luckily my daughter trusts me enough to share this with me. My daughter feels she is a stronger influence on her friend then her friend is on her, and I believe it, but I can't let her go spend the night over there anymore. My daughter had her and two boys over to have a water fight at night at our house. The girl told my daughter it was the most fun she's ever had, and she never knew she could have more fun than playing pong (beer pong). My daughter also has good LDS friends, and I'm glad she's a positive influence to this girl. It's a tricky thing being a parent. If you push them too hard they will rebel, I know I would have. But honestly when I told my daughter "NO" about going to her friends house, I think I sensed relief.

Another example is my son, not an Eagle scout. I never liked Scouts growing up and will remain forever a Life Scout with a project to go. I never pushed my son to do Scouts now he's 17. I won't go into detail but there are things he could have learned and ways we could have been closer had I been more involved.

I've made mistakes as a parent, I've learned, I've changed and I'm still learning. I will Love my kids no matter what choices they make, they know this, but I'm finding myself putting my foot down at times and know I'm doing the right thing.

Look at the stats for Seminary Graduation>Mission>Temple Marriage and then tell me it's going to be an option.

Rules, Limits, Expectations etc are training wheels while they are growing and developing.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Windseeker

[Tyler90AZ]

In almost every case, living the spirit of the law is much more difficult and much more strict than living the letter of the law.

The letter of the law (if you wish to call it a "law") is to avoid R-rated movies. The spirit of the law is to avoid all inappropriate films that glorify evil, make sacred things common, and expose us to filth in word or action -- which would by definition include all R-rated movies, but would include most or all PG-13 and a large number of PG movies, as well. Christ's teachings "it has been said of old...but I say unto you..." form a whole series of examples of spirit vs. letter. In each case, the spirit of the law is a much more rigorous standard.

People often use the "spirit of the law" argument to justify bad actions, e.g.:

But of course, the spirit of the law would never "[break] the strict rules of the gospel once in a while". And it most certainly would not be fine.

I don't much care if my children see me as a "gospel nazi". Or, more correctly, I hope to teach my children to care enough about the word of God that they would never for a moment think that obedience equals "gospel naziism", and that in fact they would be offended at the very term.

Interesting, great insight!

As far not being seen as a gospel nazi and following the spirit rather then the letter. An example would be an r-rated movie that is not too bad. It is not worth creating ww3 in my house over a movie that is not even that bad. If ww3 is created it would also be negative feelings associated with the gospel. My whole goal in life and I believe it is vital to getting our kids to stay members in adult hood, is to associate as few bad experiences with the gospel as possible. A gospel nazi in my mind is someone who doesn't have "fun" with the gospel, follows the letter rather then the spirit.

[Tyler90AZ]

I know I am a little off from most LDS people. To be honest, I don't care what religion my children choose when they are older. If they want to be muslim or a scientoligist that is alright with me...

Burn me at the stake!

[Windseeker]

I agree with you Tyler in that we need to pick our battles. I also agree with keeping the experience with the gospel positive.

[Guest]

If I truly left it up to my kids at this point, they wouldn't go to seminary, or mutual/activities. They would spend all day playing the xbox and eating junk food. There are many things they would do right and there are many areas I have 100% trust in them, but it's not all areas.

I was a punk with morals while growing up and had some wonderful trusting parents. I attended parties that had drugs, drinking, sex and never partook of any of it. I thought it was fun but in hindsight it was a waste of time and it was foolish. I had some crazy crazy non-LDS friends, who all respected and supported my beliefs.

Now flash forward to being a parent. It finally dawned on me....my kids aren't me. I don't allow my kids to go to these types of parties. I never thought I'd ever do this but I told my 15 year old daughter recently she could not spend the night with one of her friends. Her friend has abandoned her twice now, going off with a boy to have sex in an alley and usually drinks or smokes weed on the weekend. Luckily my daughter trusts me enough to share this with me. My daughter feels she is a stronger influence on her friend then her friend is on her, and I believe it, but I can't let her go spend the night over there anymore. My daughter had her and two boys over to have a water fight at night at our house. The girl told my daughter it was the most fun she's ever had, and she never knew she could have more fun than playing pong (beer pong). My daughter also has good LDS friends, and I'm glad she's a positive influence to this girl. It's a tricky thing being a parent. If you push them too hard they will rebel, I know I would have. But honestly when I told my daughter "NO" about going to her friends house, I think I sensed relief.

Another example is my son, not an Eagle scout. I never liked Scouts growing up and will remain forever a Life Scout with a project to go. I never pushed my son to do Scouts now he's 17. I won't go into detail but there are things he could have learned and ways we could have been closer had I been more involved.

I've made mistakes as a parent, I've learned, I've changed and I'm still learning. I will Love my kids no matter what choices they make, they know this, but I'm finding myself putting my foot down at times and know I'm doing the right thing.

Look at the stats for Seminary Graduation>Mission>Temple Marriage and then tell me it's going to be an option.

Rules, Limits, Expectations etc are training wheels while they are growing and developing.

This is very interesting, Windseeker!

See, I grew up the opposite way. Here's a sample of how I grew up - it's been drilled into our heads by my father that A is acceptable, B is bad. He says we all have good brains and there is no reason why we can't get an A. My brother got big time into soccer in high school. He was an A student until he started hanging out with the soccer team and his mentality changed to "Passing grade is enough - and D is passing". My father tried to control him - ban him from this or that - and my brother decided he wants to live his own life. So, my father took all of his soccer paraphernalia, threw it into a drum and lit it. My brother and my father do not speak to each other much since then. My brother ended up playing for the Philippine Team which made him money - a thumb up the nose to my dad - but then he broke his shoulder and had to retire prematurely - an I told you so moment for my dad.

So, I look at that - and some other stuff from my experiences - and I tell myself I'm not raising my kids that way. So, it's kinda like how you are now - you had some experiences and you want something different for your kids. Except, we're going the opposite way of each other!

Okay, I have to say, I might have given the impression that anything goes in my house. Like, when you said you have to put your foot down on some things. Yes, that's necessary in my house too - for example - my kids were taught that video games are for Saturday only because weekdays are for school/music/fitness/chores. But, my kids would rather choose to play video games than do chores. They don't play video games because we have house rules. So, I guess, in a way, it's a "I forbid you to..." thing except it's not presented that way.

The really crazy thing about child-rearing is - we don't know if what we're doing works until it's too late... I have 2 boys with totally different personalities - night and day really - so what works for one doesn't work for the other. So, I can't even apply what I learned from the older kid to the younger one.

Edited May 17, 2012 by anatess

[pam]

The really crazy thing about child-rearing is - we don't know if what we're doing works until it's too late... I have 2 boys with totally different personalities - night and day really - so what works for one doesn't work for the other. So, I can't even apply what I learned from the older kid to the younger one.

I can certainly agree with that. I have twins. They too are as different as night and day. I've had to use different strategies with both of them.

[Traveler]

One thing I have pondered. As a young man I entered the military at the age of 17 and looked 13 because at the time I weighed 110. If a movie were to be made of the life changing experiences I had during that time - in a manner that made sense of why the experiences were profoundly life changing - the movie would without question be R or the next more critical level. But being but 17 it was not a matter of sitting in shock looking at what was happening on the screen but the shock of living such a thing not knowing or having experienced or even though such things could be possible.

The Traveler

[NeuroTypical]

The whole teach correct principles and let them govern themselves works well from an ecclesiastic standpoint, it does not work so well in parenting in my experience, only gradually as you're getting ready to unleash them upon the world.

I like the notion of raising children and "unleashing" them on the world, and think in those terms often. Eventually, our kids are going to head out on their own. It's my job to do what I can to keep them from traumatic harm while they're in my care, and to do what I can to give them whatever tools, knowledge, experience, character, morals, etc they'll accept from me. I can urge them to find their testimonies.

From where I'm standing, if they reach adulthood without having a deep understanding of the seeds of evil present in all human hearts, I haven't done my job. And I believe watching Schindler's List with them may very well be an appropriate way to help get this understanding across, when they are ready to absorb such lessons.

(Your mileage may vary with your own kids.)

[Windseeker]

Anatess,

Well I don't think it's opposite, if my parents knew where I was going they probably would not have let me go. The only area were I think I differ from my parents is when it comes to education. My parents both BYU graduates only had one of their 6 kids graduate from college (my older brother). The rest of us had no motiviation for school. I did ok, I worked 8 years for Microsoft and my younger brother is currently working there.

But your story reminds me of a comment I read on Amazon about the book "Top of the Class: How Asian Parents Raise High Achievers--and How You Can Tool"

I was raised in a very traditional Chinese family. Oh yes, I even now attend an Ivy League school. One slight problem, my father used to terrify me by yelling at me and calling me "stupid", "lazy", and "useless" whenever I got a math problem wrong. This was during trigonometry lessons when I was in 5th grade.

So, raise your kids the asian way, and they'll turn out to be valedictorians (like I was), Ivy-league students (like I am), and on anti-depressant medication (like I am).

They'll also refuse to speak to you after they leave for college. I have not spoken to my father for about 5 years. Not a word.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Windseeker

[Guest]

Okay, I a little note about drinking:

My father is a chemist at a beer company. So, at any time while I was growing up, I can open the fridge and there would be beer front and center. In the Philippines, you can put beer in your infant's bottle and nobody will arrest you. There's probably a law in existence regarding drinking age, but police have bigger problems than have to worry about which kid is drinking.

So, anyway, all this alcohol all over the place and we're Catholics - there's no WOW to tell us not to drink even - yet all my siblings don't drink. NONE of us. We're athletes! We know it's not a good thing to do if you want to last a 45-minute half on the soccer field.

So yeah, I guess I don't quite get what R-rated movies have to do with kids drinking when I grew up with kids growing up around booze yet none of them drink. I'd say - if you're worried about kids drinking, get them into sports!

[Guest]

Anatess,

Well I don't think it's opposite, if my parents knew where I was going they probably would not have let me go. The only area were I think I differ from my parents is when it comes to education. My parents both BYU graduates only had one of their 6 kids graduate from college (my older brother). The rest of us had no motiviation for school. I did ok, I worked 8 years for Microsoft and my younger brother is currently working there.

But your story reminds me of a comment I read on Amazon about the book "Top of the Class: How Asian Parents Raise High Achievers--and How You Can Tool"

Oh wow - yeah, that is kinda true. I was in first grade when I didn't get dinner because I came home with a quiz grade of 1/10. And yes, there used to be a high rate of suicide among Filipino immigrant teen-age daughters in California back in the late 90's because of parental pressure.

But - I submit that depressed kids is a result of the confusion arising from the big gap between what is taught at home and what is experienced outside of the home. It's more of a culture clash really. You don't get this level of depression in Asia because everybody is in the same boat.

[EarlJibbs]

I have made the decision not to watch R rated movies. Have i really missed anything? Not really. If anything I am more picky about what I will see. I only want to watch something that I classify as one of the best movies I have seen. I usually do not get those from R rated movies and not a lot of PG13, Usually. But if I miss a few, then so be it. I can say that I think I like movies more when I limit myself. Put it into an eternal concept and what do you get? You really think that we will be watching movies like the ones that are out now in the eternities? I mean, we really dont know, but I suspect that we may look back at this time on Earth and realize all of the time we waisted on stupid stuff.

As far as raising your kids in a bubble, I love the bubble. It doesnt mean that your kids are not exposed to anything. Are you telling me that your kids dont hear what they would hear on an R rated movie or worse at school? Or at a friends house? Or at the store? How many times have you been at the grocery store and some person is talking on their phone and being crude and swearing. Or lyrics blasting in someones car? They will hear it, and if you have a relationship you can talk to them about it. But I dont know why you would want to knowingly expose them to it, even if it is a "controlled" environment. Do I think that if you watch an R rated movie you are damned or a bad person? Of course not, but we have been given direction and we should follow that direction. We are not smarter than God, and that is a fact.

[Bini]

I think everyone has made excellent points. Certainly, the road goes both ways and no one can argue that. I grew up with friends who lived with smoking parents. I remember every one of them saying how they hated their parents smoking and that they were never going to smoke when they grew up. Well, interesting enough, I am still in contact with many via Facebook and every single one of them are smokers. Regardless if they're social, casual or chimney smokers - they smoke. It seems, from their pictures they share, they cannot eat, drink or be merry (sociable) without a cigarette in hand. Many of them now have children of their own too. I sense this may be a cycle that is not easily broken.

[annewandering]

I think everyone has made excellent points. Certainly, the road goes both ways and no one can argue that. I grew up with friends who lived with smoking parents. I remember every one of them saying how they hated their parents smoking and that they were never going to smoke when they grew up. Well, interesting enough, I am still in contact with many via Facebook and every single one of them are smokers. Regardless if they're social, casual or chimney smokers - they smoke. It seems, from their pictures they share, they cannot eat, drink or be merry (sociable) without a cigarette in hand. Many of them now have children of their own too. I sense this may be a cycle that is not easily broken.

My father smoked so much that we had a permanent cloud in the house. He did break the habit but it took him a long time and many falls to do it. None of his kids smoke and very few of his grandkids smoke.

Perhaps it has to do with living in an LDS community. I dont know.

[Bini]

My father smoked so much that we had a permanent cloud in the house. He did break the habit but it took him a long time and many falls to do it. None of his kids smoke and very few of his grandkids smoke.

Perhaps it has to do with living in an LDS community. I dont know.

There's no saying. Although this is off topic, I recall hearing that the odds are higher for children to drink and or smoke, if alcohol and or cigarettes are in the household handy. But we forget that individual personalities (of our children) will also play a role in how they make decisions and how they live their lives.

[Blackmarch]

anatess, you have any stats to back up your claim that kids growing up in the church have a weaker testimony?

i doubt anyone has taken the time to do that poll...

We all have to be sent through the fire sooner or later, and eventually those that grow up in the church will start taking it for granted.

[volgadon]

Asian parents =)

[Bini]

Asian parents =)

Ha ha. I can totally relate to this, and my parents aren't even Asian but growing up in southeast Asia, the pressures of being an A student was pretty tremendous.