R rated films lead kids to smoking/alcohol/violence

[rameumptom]

Keeping kids away from R-rated movies may prevent early drinking

Here's evidence that R rated films destroy young minds.

[daburto9876]

I know this may ruffle a few feathers, which isn't necessarily my intention, but I do not use the MPAA rating as my primary basis for letting my children watch a movie. The notion of avoiding R-rated movies as a rule is I suppose as good a place start as any, which is probably why it has meen mentioned in talks and articles. However, films are an educational tool, whether intentional or not, and young children, teenagers, and even adults are sponges soaking up what is being "taught" in a movie. Does each panel member of the MPAA have a copy of "For the Strength of Youth", whereby they determine what is appropriate or not? There are movies rated PG-13, PG, or even G, that have no redeeming qualities in my opinion, conveying teachings that are blatantly in opposition to what is true and right. On the other hand, every once in a while along comes a film that somehow captures the essence of a gospel truth, but the MPAA will slap it with an R-rating.

To summarize, it's important to understand the underlying principle behind the counsel we are given concerning media and entertainment: If there is anyting virtuous, lovely, or of good report, or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

[Matthew0059]

daburto9876, I agree with your entire post except for:

On the other hand, every once in a while along comes a film that somehow captures the essence of a gospel truth, but the MPAA will slap it with an R-rating.

Could you provide an example of a movie that does this? My concern is that there have to be some legitimate grounds for an 'R' rating- language, nudity/sexual content, etc., and any one of those things disbars (in my opinion) any movie from being truly acceptable.

I absolutely agree with what you said about PG-13 movies (and some PG/G movies!) being completely inappropriate. I've worked at a movie theater for the past 2 months, and the only thing really good and acceptable that's come out in that time is "How to Train Your Dragon" (I never saw "The Last Song" or "Letters to God", so those might be good- but I can't vouch for them. "Alice in Wonderland" doesn't pass because a mixture of the language, drug references, and overall creepiness.). Even "How to Train Your Dragon" suffered from a few vulgar and inappropriate jokes (although the storyline and themes were, for the most part, fantastic).

Most of the PG-13 movies coming out will degrade the morals of anyone who watches them- the problem is that the young are most affected. What frustrates me to no end is when I see parents escorting teenagers and children to see Kick-A** or other R-rated movies (one mother took her 6-YEAR OLD DAUGHTER!!)

[Guest mormonmusic]

I don't believe it's worth the exposure of the bad stuff for your kids to see the R-rated movie. It's like saying you're going to eat the chocolate pudding because it has dairy products in it.

Better to just have the dairy products in a glass of milk where it's pure....

[MorMan55]

Studies like this are misleading.

Did you know that cancer rates rise with TV ownership? That is because people with TVs can afford medical care which reveals cancer - people without TVs can\'t.

As it pertains here, drinking/drug use studies rely on self reporting - children with strict parents (no R rated movies, son!) are less likely to self report their drinking out of fear/shame. Furthermore, overbearing parents who strictly monitor their children\'s media consumption are also, quite likely, the kind of parents who make sure their kids aren\'t in a position to drink - in bed at 9 until you\'re 18, no girls, no parties without chaperones, etc.

Furthermore, if you\'re raising a child who sees something in a movie and automatically wishes to emulate the behavior, you\'ve done a poor job as a parent. If you shelter them from it, they will be confronted with it eventually. At that point, they won\'t know how to deal with it, and you might not be there to help them.

I let my children watch films with bad language and nudity. Why be ashamed of GOD\'s creation? I teach them not to lust, but respect. We talk about depictions of violence and turmoil, whether it is realistic, why it is wrong, and things can be avoided/ resolved.

[daburto9876]

daburto9876, I agree with your entire post except for:

Could you provide an example of a movie that does this? My concern is that there have to be some legitimate grounds for an 'R' rating- language, nudity/sexual content, etc., and any one of those things disbars (in my opinion) any movie from being truly acceptable.

The best example of this I can think of is Schindler's List. As nearly every student of history is aware, the Nazi regime, from 1933 to 1945, committed some of the most unspeakable acts, intensely violent acts, against not only ethnic Jews, but ethnic Slavs, Poles, Serbs, Romani (Gypsies), the physically or mentally disabled, and anyone else whose views ran contrary to Nazi doctrine. This is very clearly, in my opinion, a topic for mature minds only. Any film representation that tries to honestly communicate the amount of depravity extant in these atrocities deserves an R rating in my book. Nevertheless, the story of Oskar Schindler and his deeds, in the very face of the evil that surrounded him, is very much a tale that is virtuous, lovely, of good report, and praiseworthy. In my opinion, someone who thinks negatively of the film solely because of the violence, the nudity, and profanity, dishonors the memories of those who suffered at the hands of these criminals. They certainly didn't have the freedom to "turn it off."

Contrast these sentiments with the following comment by horror author Stephen King, describing the ultra-violent film The Devil's Rejects, included in his list of top 10 movies of 2005: "No redeeming social merit, perfect '70s C-picture cheesy glow; this must be what Quentin Tarantino meant when he did those silly Kill Bill pictures."

Again, I suggest that we let gospel principles guide our media selection, and not the MPAA. Before viewing a film, read reviews and try to determine whether viewing it will edify your spirit. Don't feel like you have to finish a movie if you are not feeling edified. As for movies and kids, some topics really are only appropriate for adults or mature-minded teens.

Edited May 1, 2010 by daburto9876

[NeuroTypical]

This story was posted by a guy many years ago on another message board, arguing about violence in movies. I think he makes good points.

If violence portrayed on film is classified as 'entertainment,' I can understand and would support such an application of the statement above. If violence is merely for 'entertainment' or shock value, it falls into the 'wanton' category that others have condemned--and I would join my voice with theirs and yours in such condemnation.

However, not ALL movies are intended to be 'entertainment.' They may be held as such by some individuals, and may even have 'a side-effect' of being such--but many have the potential to be MUCH more than that. So it is with violence itself.

Let me give you an example: While attending BYU, I worked as an assistant shepherd. No, not at the MTC or anything--I mean literally. The year after I returned from my mission, I worked for the BYU Sheep Unit, where I shepherded a flock of 250+ sheep. The man I worked for--the Head Shepherd--was an older gentleman by the name of Warren Kuhl. He had worked with sheep for many years, and had a wisdom about him that I admired--he was a 'shepherd philosopher' of sorts. I loved working for him, and he and I shared many great conversations, both spiritual and secular. I learned a lot during that fall and winter about taking care of sheep--feeding, breeding, lambing--as well as about life itself from Warren.

In the spring of that year, Warren asked me to come down to one of the buildings one afternoon. He wanted to teach me some additional things about sheep. Once I arrived, he told me that we had to round up a group of them to take to slaughter house (which was located right there as part of BYU's farm). He asked if I would be willing to participate and help. I willingly did so. We rounded up the sheep, and drove them into the slaughter house. He showed me how the sheep were killed by using a special type of device (I can't remember the name). This was done by holding the foot-long metal cylinder vertically against the top of the sheep's skull. Then, by pushing a button, the device would fire a metal piston straight down through the sheep's skull and into it's brain, thus killing it instantly. Warren invited me to participate in the slaughter.

I have never hunted, nor killed anything. I am person if gentle disposition--never prone to violence nor bloodshed, so it was difficult for me to do. But Warren's approach was one of quiet invitation, not abrasive cajoling, and I did so--holding the sheeps' heads while he pulled the triggers, and even pulling that trigger once myself for one of the sheep.

Later that afternoon, as we tended the rest of flock, Warren and I talked about that experience. He explained why he invited me to participate. Warren was a quiet, gentle man--a man who loved his sheep, though NOT a vegetarian nor an animal rights activist. He felt that in today's 'convenience obsessed society,' too many people are so used to going to the supermarket and picking up their prepackaged, weighed, cellophane-wrapped bundles of meat, they do not give a second thought to the lives that are given on their behalves. We spoke of life--of death----of stewardships--of the earth and all it's creations--of God's plan. We spoke of reverence for those of God's creations that we are stewards over, those animals who's lives we take in order to sustain our own. We spoke of bloodshed, and giving thanks. The slaughter was a violent and bloody experience. It was a unique and singular experience. It was a spiritual experience that had a profound and deeply moving affect on me--one that affects my attitudes about violence and life and death to this very day. And we were 'just' talking about sheep.

Would such an experience have been appropriate for children? Most definitely NOT. Was such an experience 'entertainment'? Most definitely NOT. Was such an experience 'violent'? Most definitely. Was it appropriate? Most definitely. I am grateful for Warren's wisdom in teaching me the value of life--of non-violence--of gratitude for those who give their lives through such so we may live.

Wanton violence is NEVER appropriate--especially in entertainment. Such is--and SHOULD be--condemned by The First Presidency. But not all violence is mere entertainment, nor sport--nor are all movies.

[Jbs2763]

i just sorta skimmed thru this..but there are 2 R rated films that i think every punk teenager needs to see...Shindler's List, and Saving Private Ryan

[Elgama]

what rating would Book of Mormon the Movie get?

[ADoyle90815]

I'm not bound by any church rules as to what movies I chose to watch, since I'm an adult who is capable of making up my own mind as to what I feel is appropriate. I don't like extremely violent movies, so I see something else instead. I still have no desire to see "The Passion of the Christ" because it's too violent for my taste, even though it is about Christ.

[Mahone]

i just sorta skimmed thru this..but there are 2 R rated films that i think every punk teenager needs to see...Shindler's List, and Saving Private Ryan

Other than being a film that completely distorts an important piece of history, and therefore confusing said punk teenagers, it's a good film

[Dravin]

Other than being a film that completely distorts an important piece of history, and therefore confusing said punk teenagers, it's a good film

And physics. IIRC there is one scene where a character hears the report of the sniper rifle before the bullet reaches him.

[rameumptom]

So, there are perhaps 2 R rated movies out of thousands that are possibly worth having a teenager see. Both are based upon the tragedies of WWII, and are rated R for the realistic intensity, language, and some nudity. What does that tell us regarding the vast majority of R rated movies?

I think that there has to be some very compelling reasons not to avoid R rated movies as a rule, with exceptions coming around very very rarely, as in the possible exceptions of Schindler's List and Saving Private Ryan.

[Blackmarch]

i just sorta skimmed thru this..but there are 2 R rated films that i think every punk teenager needs to see...Shindler's List, and Saving Private Ryan

Have you seen saints and soldiers yet?

[Matthew0059]

Have you seen saints and soldiers yet?

Saints and Soldiers is AMAZING, but was able to keep content to a PG-13 level.

[Matthew0059]

The best example of this I can think of is Schindler's List. As nearly every student of history is aware, the Nazi regime, from 1933 to 1945, committed some of the most unspeakable acts, intensely violent acts, against not only ethnic Jews, but ethnic Slavs, Poles, Serbs, Romani (Gypsies), the physically or mentally disabled, and anyone else whose views ran contrary to Nazi doctrine. This is very clearly, in my opinion, a topic for mature minds only. Any film representation that tries to honestly communicate the amount of depravity extant in these atrocities deserves an R rating in my book. Nevertheless, the story of Oskar Schindler and his deeds, in the very face of the evil that surrounded him, is very much a tale that is virtuous, lovely, of good report, and praiseworthy. In my opinion, someone who thinks negatively of the film solely because of the violence, the nudity, and profanity, dishonors the memories of those who suffered at the hands of these criminals. They certainly didn't have the freedom to "turn it off."

I've never seen Schindler's List so I can't comment as to its content. There is something to be said for historical accuracy and honest portrayal. To be honest, when you talked about acceptable R-rated movies, my mind flashed to a previous conversation on this forum, years ago, where (IIRC) someone argued that the movie "V for Vendetta" was acceptable because it "truthfully" showed the evils of fascism. I wasn't considering serious movies based on real events, but rather movies meant as entertainment.

Again, I suggest that we let gospel principles guide our media selection, and not the MPAA.

I don't have a problem with this- the reason that, as a rule, I avoid R-rated films (and encourage everyone to do so) is because the criteria for meeting the R-rating is criteria that simultaneously and universally disqualifies it from being enlightening as entertainment (I think Loudmouth_Mormon posted a very excellent summary of the difference between violence, sex, etc. as required in real life and as entertainment).

Your example notwithstanding, we have to ask ourselves to what extent we will watch graphic depictions of historical events. As Elgama mentioned, if every scene in the Book of Mormon were graphically depicted, what rating would it get? There are numerous cinematic and storytelling tricks that could lessen the shock of some of the events depicted (for example, the Living Scriptures series shows only Nephi's sillhouette when he slays Laban- but it's obvious what is happening).

The reason that I am so adamant about this is because I grew up watching bloody, violent R-rated films and thought they did little to affect me. I was also into X-rated pornographic entertainment. As I matured and put those things down and walked away from them, I've come to realize just how much they affected me, and still could if I sought them out. I'm hyper-sensitive and those things affect me more than the average person under healthy circumstances- but the principle holds true.

[atothengela]

Keeping kids away from R-rated movies may prevent early drinking

Here's evidence that R rated films destroy young minds.

I must disagree with you. There are movies out there that are rated PG-13 that are worse than rated R movies. Just because a movie is rated PG-13 doesn't mean it's better than an R-rated movie. We cannot base what movies we watch or anything we watch really on MPAA. There are good qualities to all movies, some have more than others but all have good qualities in them.

[atothengela]

I know this may ruffle a few feathers, which isn't necessarily my intention, but I do not use the MPAA rating as my primary basis for letting my children watch a movie. The notion of avoiding R-rated movies as a rule is I suppose as good a place start as any, which is probably why it has meen mentioned in talks and articles. However, films are an educational tool, whether intentional or not, and young children, teenagers, and even adults are sponges soaking up what is being "taught" in a movie. Does each panel member of the MPAA have a copy of "For the Strength of Youth", whereby they determine what is appropriate or not? There are movies rated PG-13, PG, or even G, that have no redeeming qualities in my opinion, conveying teachings that are blatantly in opposition to what is true and right. On the other hand, every once in a while along comes a film that somehow captures the essence of a gospel truth, but the MPAA will slap it with an R-rating.

To summarize, it's important to understand the underlying principle behind the counsel we are given concerning media and entertainment: If there is anyting virtuous, lovely, or of good report, or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

I must say that it IS brave for anyone, member or not to say this. Some members would shrink at the thought of watching an R-rated movie. Yes, even I had these same notions but then, I realized I wasn't giving them a chance. Yes, R-rated movies for the most part are bad, but there are PG-13 movies that are worse than an R. I've seen quite a few myself. I've seen R-rated movies (they were edited/on TV) but I wasn't able to enjoy the whole thing. I don't believe R-rated movies lead to anything bad like drinking, doing drugs or becoming violent, if someone does become involved with these things it's because they wanted to and it's not the movie's fault. I do believe that these things come about because people are not informed enough and so they try it out to see why people make such a stink over it. We, as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints MUST be informed. If we are to judge ANYTHING we must be informed. As a missionary I could not judge anyone who wasn't a member to the same standards as a member, because they didn't know as much as we do, or should know, I cannot judge someone because their standards are different than mine.

Edited May 16, 2012 by atothengela

[atothengela]

Saints and Soldiers is AMAZING, but was able to keep content to a PG-13 level.

because they edited the crap out of it. They made sure that movie could be seen by members if they hadn't it'd be rated R. Do your homework people!

[MarginOfError]

I must disagree with you. There are movies out there that are rated PG-13 that are worse than rated R movies.

That isn't an argument that against the claim "Here's evidence that R rated films destroy young minds." What you've presented is evidence that PG-13 movies also destroy young minds.

[Guest]

Recent Rated-R Movies I thoroughly liked:

Act of Valor. Best. War. Movie. Ever. And yeah, it is more a show-and-tell of what Navy Seals do than it is entertainment.

The King's Speech. Queen Elizabeth's father is one of my favorite royals in British History because of his contributions to WWII. I didn't know he struggled with a speech impediment!

And great movies that came out around the same time as How To Train Your Dragon (2010) - Tangled, Toy Story 3, Despicable Me, Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, 127 hours, Waiting for Superman, True Grit, Inception

And the year before that (2009) gave us Avatar, Star Trek, Invictus, Up, Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, and Michael Jackson's This Is It.

The year after that (2011) gave us Jane Eyre, The Warrior, Hugo, The Help, Planet of the Apes, Captain America, Thor, We Bought a Zoo, and the conclusion to Harry Potter.

And this year is the year of THE AVENGERS!

Okay, we watch movies. A Lot of Movies. I grew up on Shaolin Temple, yet you don't see me nor my brothers beating anybody up. And no, none of us drink. Why... because, we all know - IT'S JUST A MOVIE!

My kids have been taught since they watched their very first movie - this here movie is not real. It's fantasy-land. No, you can't inject some chemical into a chimpanzee to cure alzheimers. No, you can't drink or smoke or swear just because you see it in a movie, or TV, or see your friends doing it.

Now, of course, if you just send your kids out in the world without teaching them what is right then chances are, they're going to do what they see everybody else doing. But, if you teach them at home and they see things outside the home, chances are they'll recognize it as stuff we, as a covenant people, just don't do.

And no, my kids are too young to watch movies on their own. So, we always watch the movie with them and if the rating on Kids-In-Mind: Movie Ratings That Actually Work is questionable, we watch the movie first before we take the kids with us. So, we take the time to talk about the movie on our way home and discuss what's good, what's not good, etc. And it's not just movies folks - there's TV, books, magazines, radio, music, friends, neighbors, soccer teams, etc. etc. etc. My kids will walk out of a movie if they feel it's a bad show - like, they walked out of This Means War - PG-13.

My kid got accepted to a School of the Arts. He's an awesome pianist. My Mother-In-Law adviced us not to send my kid there because there are a lot of gay people in that school and he might turn gay. Hello... School of the Arts...

Living in the world and not of the world - you can't keep your kids in a bubble. A child who grew up in the Church and knows nothing else has a higher chance of having a weaker testimony than a child who grew up outside of the Church, builds a testimony of the Church and chooses to be baptized and follow the covenants even when his entire family does all these non-covenant things around him.

Edited May 16, 2012 by anatess

[Vort]

Living in the world and not of the world - you can't keep your kids in a bubble.

And yet, that is exactly what we are supposed to do: Insulate our children from the wickedness surrounding them and provide a safe haven from the world.

The statement that we live in the world but should not be of the world is not a commandment to become part of Babylon. On the contrary, it is an observation, an acknowledgement of the reality of things. We ARE a part of the world. That is inescapable. But we are to remain spotless and not to touch their unclean things. Many, perhaps most, movies, and certainly almost by definition any with an 'R' rating, are among those unclean things.

A child who grew up in the Church and knows nothing else has a higher chance of having a weaker testimony than a child who grew up outside of the Church, builds a testimony of the Church and chooses to be baptized and follow the covenants even when his entire family does all these non-covenant things around him.

I think this is probably untrue. I suspect there might even be studies or statistics that might be applicable here. But in any case, if what you say is true, then those of us bringing up our children in the Church and doing our best to shield them from the uglier parts of society are in fact doing them a disservice. We would do much better to get them baptized and then start drinking, drugging, and fornicating.

[beefche]

anatess, you have any stats to back up your claim that kids growing up in the church have a weaker testimony?

[MorningStar]

Schindler's List might be a good story, but the movie contained graphic violence and unnecessary nudity.

[Bini]

We are all dealt different cards. I believe personal weaknesses can only be blamed, so to speak, on our own actions. Certainly, environment plays a role in how we all develop but at the end of the day, what we choose to do and the consequences that follow, are on us. There's a delicate balance here and it's difficult to pinpoint what is solely black and what is solely white areas. That said, I think as parents, it's important to raise our kids distanced from as much garbage as possible (they'll be exposed to all that yuck soon enough), at least, while they are minors and under our house rules. When they become of age, they are free to move out, get a job, live with their boyfriend/girlfriend and make whatever other decisions they want - whether or not we agree with it. But hopefully, in those earlier years, the gospel and better choices have been firmly instilled, and will help veer them away from those not-so-good choices. Apart of that is allowing the Spirit to talk to our kids in helping them make right decisions, and the only way this can happen is if our kids are in environments that welcome the Spirit.