I need some advice

[MorningStar]

Countless people have felt the same, but it was tempting and they messed up. If you land yourself in jail, telling everyone how mature you are isn't going to help.

[slamjet]

I guess I'm having trouble seeing what the big deal with the age difference is. I've seen it all the time. And I've seen kids wise beyond their years and thirty-year-olds who don't know which way is up.

I'll accept that the girl is mature.

Just keep in mind that there are legal problems with the age difference. I didn't date anyone significantly older until I was 18.

Also remember the best of the best have slipped up before.

Age spread is irrelevant in this case. It's an 18 year old going after a 16 year old. She is still a child. And so is he for thinking that it's appropriate to be serious with her.

[ryanh]

What I find most ironic and, quite frankly - sad, is a situation like this when one who professes so strongly that they absolutely will never cross a certain line, and that they would never consider marrying anyone who has slipped up, is so grossly cavalier in taking steps to ensure such a course of purity is maintained. Sad that one can be so cavalier as to disregard, and even outright reject, dating advice repeated for several decades by several recent prophets, and yet expect results different than forewarned of.

If you have an issue with the nature of the advice given here, then you clearly have an issue with following the counsel of prophets. And that IMO, is very telling.

Why are you so concerned with getting serious with a minor, and not preparing for a mission?

[Connie]

For the Strength of Youth: Fulfilling Our Duty to God Dating

For the Strength of Youth: Fulfilling Our Duty to God Sexual Purity

For the Strength of Youth: Fulfilling Our Duty to God Music and Dancing

"No matter how strong temptations seem, the Lord will help you withstand them if you choose to follow Him. The Apostle Paul declared, “There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it” (1 Corinthians 10:13). The following counsel can help you overcome the frequent and blatant temptations in the world today:

Decide now to be chaste. You need to make this decision only once. Make the decision now, before the temptation comes, and let your decision be so firm and with such deep commitment that it can never be shaken. Determine now that you will never do anything outside of marriage to arouse the powerful emotions that must be expressed only in marriage. Do not arouse those emotions in another person’s body or in your own body. Determine now that you will be completely true to your spouse.

Control your thoughts. No one commits sexual sin in an instant. Immoral acts always begin with impure thoughts. If you allow your thoughts to linger on obscene or immoral things, you have already taken the first step toward immorality. Flee immediately from situations that may lead to sin. Pray for constant strength to resist temptation and control your thoughts. Make this a part of your daily prayers.

Stay away from pornography. Do not view, read, or listen to anything that depicts or describes the human body or sexual conduct in a way that can arouse sexual feelings. Pornographic materials are addictive and destructive. They can rob you of your self-respect and of a sense of the beauties of life. They can tear you down and lead you to evil thoughts and abusive conduct.

If you are single and dating, always treat your date with respect. Never treat him or her as an object to be used for lustful desires. Carefully plan positive and constructive activities so that you and your date are not left alone without anything to do. Stay in areas of safety where you can easily control yourself. Do not participate in conversations or activities that arouse sexual feelings. Do not participate in passionate kissing, lie with or on top of another person, or touch the private, sacred parts of another person’s body, with or without clothing. Do not allow anyone to do such things with you."

(Source)

[JudoMinja]

I know Satan is strong but I know Jesus Christ is stronger because he's the Son of God. Yes, I know how to play tennis. Bowling is ok. I'm actually pretty good.

Knowing Jesus Christ is stronger does not help you against Satan if you do not listen to HIS advice, and the word of Christ and God is spoken through the prophets. What do the prophets council about dating? DO NOT "HANG OUT". It is a recipe for disaster. DO NOT SPEND TIME "ALONE", unless it is heavily structured time and you have told others where you will be and what you will be doing and that time alone is with someone you think you want to propose to.

The advice you have been given here is not crap. It is not a sign of a lack of maturity. Have you heard the parable of the three cart drivers? A man wants to hire a cart driver to carry a precious load over a mountain. He interviews three and asks them how close they can get to the edge without falling over. The first says he can get within a few inches. The second says he can get the wheel to "just" cross without losing the cart. The third says he's not sure, but he's going to be staying as far away from the edge as he can. Which one do you think got the job?

Think about what you are doing here and what kind of "cart driver" you are trying to be. I speak from personal experience, the shared experiences of many others (members and non-members), statistics, and pophetic council. You may think you are strong, but if you do not follow the advice of the Lord you will be relying on ONLY YOUR OWN STRENGTH in fighting the temptations of Satan. No man (or woman) alone is strong enough to fight Satan. Yes, the Lord is stronger than Satan, but the Spirit will not dwell with you if you ignore His advice.

I gave you suggestions for what you can do and not do. They may not have been specific, but they were suggestions. However, here is a bit of a better outline:

DO-

1. Group or double date.

2. Spend time together in public.

3. Structure your dates- have a plan, schedule, and time limit.

4. Date several girls.

DON'T-

1. "Hang out".

2. Spend time alone.

3. Do anything even remotely intimate.

4. Date exclusively.

Stressing the need to follow prophetic is not a sign of immaturity. Recognizing the weakness of the natural man is not a sign of immaturity. Advizing someone to set limits and BE CAREFUL is not a sign of immaturity.

It is not just one person who has slipped and fallen. Do some research. Look at the countless numbers of people who thought they were strong, thought they could handle the temptation, and ended up falling in the end. What is common between those people? They ignored the advice of their elders, acted recklessly, and put too much confidence in their own strength.

King David is an example found in the scriptures, and there are many more should you choose to look for them.

Jospeh of Egypt FLED temptation. He did not flirt with it. That is what we should do.

Satan WILL toy with your emotions. You said earlier that you love this girl and that she claims to love you. If you truly love each other, you will do everything in your power to prepare yourselves to face temptation and maintain your virture.

I do not question your maturity, only your lack of understanding of prophetic council. There are many young people who are very mature, but maturity does not mean you will not fall.

I was 21. I was strong in the gospel. I had always followed the advice of my church leaders closely. I had never put myself in a compromising situation. Then, I met someone whom I loved. I thought I was strong enough. I started "hanging out" and slowly, slowly began slipping.

Now, I am 24. I am a single mother of a two-year-old boy. I had to flee an abusive relationship or risk seeing my son killed by his own father. If you think you feel sensitive about this topic, think again. If you believe that my mistake means I was immature, think again.

Those who flirt with Satan lose. Jesus Christ is stronger than him, but even HE said "Get thee hence Satan" when faced with temptation.

[Soulsearcher]

Reminds me of talking to one of my kids. Every time he needed advice i'd give it to him, he's ignore it and came back to me later and tell me i had been right. We had a talk one day and i asked him why he just never listened in the first place.

"I don't want you to be right, i want to prove you wrong just once, it's not that i don't value your opinion, i just want to not be like everyone else who's gone through the same things and maybe change what usually happens. It's not that i don't know you are right, i just think I can change it"

[Gwen]

I have more advice - Tennis - if you don't know how to play, it's a great thing to learn to play together. Bowling is always fun, can be cheesy, but disco bowling is okay. But, I personally wouldn't want to go bowling because I can't be caught dead wearing those ugly shoes. Is there something like a Dave and Busters where you are? It's like Chuck-E-Cheese for grown-ups. Also lots of fun but can be pricey. Skating is also fun especially if it's in a mall or like at the Galleria in Houston/Dallas or a the Rockefeller in NYC where it's a "happening place", then you can grab some ice-cream/hot chocolate after and cruise the shopping centers.

Okay, now you can THANK me for my suggestions. Or not.

i was going to suggest bowling

it doesn't matter how "mature" you are for your age there is still a lot of growing up to do. i got married at 20. my older sister said to me before the wedding (she was in school for a social work degree) "are you sure you are ready to get married? in my class they say that you do as much psychological maturing between 20 and 25 as you do physical growth between birth and 5 yrs." if you put a 5 yr old and an new born next to each other that is massive. of course i knew better than her and said i was ready. now i'm 31 and guess what..... her words of caution mean a lot more to me now. i wish i had listened to my big sister. there are just a lot of things that could have been made easier had i used more wisdom in the process. of course at 20 we are much wiser than those that have been before.

Edited February 25, 2011 by Gwen

[Dravin]

Get involved in a hobby together: photography, dancing, scrap booking, exercise, hiking, etc.

It is a good start to any relationship, is to have something in common besides attraction.

Along those lines doing something 'cultural' such as visiting a museum (art, history or science) if both of you are interested in such is a nice way to spend some time together. It can also be cheap or even free. Also, musical offerings or a play (though such can be spendy if you want the more professional offerings instead of say a community or university theater).

P.S. My vote is for the museum instead of the music or play, at least at first. Talking at a museum is considered more acceptable than at the other two.

Edited February 25, 2011 by Dravin

[MorningStar]

Wow. I ask for some advice on activities to do and all I get is a bunch of crap. And no, I'm not dropping her slamjet. I am grown up and I am mature. I found this girl a couple of years ago and I regret not asking her out sooner. Now that we're dating, I'm happy and she is too.

Again, does anyone have GOOD advice in regards to activities we could do instead of the crap people have said?

Here's the problem. You started the thread off by justifying your relationship with this girl, which shows you know there could be a potential problem. Her parents and grandparents approve. Would the law approve if the two of you gave in to temptation? No. And if you were to get her pregnant, her parents could very well change their tune and turn you in.

You could have just started a thread about good ideas for dates. You didn't have to include the information about your age difference. If you think you are immune to temptation, you are wrong. Many people have felt that way and were shocked to discover their weakness. It is normal to have such strong feelings, so everyone has to be careful and not put ourselves in foolish situations. I have been married for 14 years. I can't tell myself it's OK to go have dinner with another man who is a friend because we might develop feelings for each other. I don't feel like I am capable of cheating on my husband, but so many people thought the same thing and they messed up. Telling yourself you are strong instead of following the good advice you were given is setting yourself up to fail. I won't cheat on my husband because I refuse to open any doors that would make it possible. I have rules for myself to keep temptation away.

[volgadon]

Is anyone else reminded of the song My Backpages? I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now...

Anyway, with all due respect to the new St Anthony, placing one's self in the path of temptation is IDIOTIC.

[pam]

Wow, looks like I've missed out on all the "fun" today.

I'm rather appalled at the direction this thread took. All LDSChristian asked for is some ideas for some fun activities and wow..look at what he got.

He didn't ask for advice on whether he should date the person. He asked for advice on some ideas of activities they could enjoy. I may not have always agreed with comments LDSChristian has made on the site but this seriously was not something he deserved.

"Alone time" isn't always what the phrase implies. In my opinion, sometimes it can mean just being away from family and friends and concentrating on each other. That can also be in public settings. So it would have been more worthwhile to come up with activities they could enjoy in public yet still have the opportunity to interract with each other.

The personal attacks need to stop. Let's answer the question that he brought up in his OP.

[volgadon]

He didn't ask for advice on whether he should date the person. He asked for advice on some ideas of activities they could enjoy. I may not have always agreed with comments LDSChristian has made on the site but this seriously was not something he deserved.

I agree with you on the comments about not dating her, but he attacked those who dared to suppose that he isn't immune to temptation.

[MorningStar]

His comments made it sound like it is a legal problem in his state, but the parents had given the OK for the relationship to continue anyway. If they were to give in to temptation, I don't know if that would count as statutory rape in his state. I have heard of kids getting in major trouble even though the age gap was even smaller.

[MorningStar]

Also, he started another thread about "dating laws" only strengthening the impression that there was a legal problem in getting involved with this girl. If their relationship is legal, I would be happy to give ideas for dates, but I wasn't going to encourage something that would just get him into trouble.

[slamjet]

His comments made it sound like it is a legal problem in his state, but the parents had given the OK for the relationship to continue anyway. If they were to give in to temptation, I don't know if that would count as statutory rape in his state. I have heard of kids getting in major trouble even though the age gap was even smaller.

Not only could it be statutory rape, but lewd and lascivious conduct with a minor requiring him to register as a sex offender for possibly life as well as mandatory jail (if less than a year)/prison time (if more than a year). Then the parents could get nailed on failure to protect, having DCFS coming down on them.

This is not a game he's playing here, it's real life with real consequences. He needs to grow up and shape up.

[pam]

I agree with you on the comments about not dating her, but he attacked those who dared to suppose that he isn't immune to temptation.

I agree there were attacks on both sides. I also will admit there is a bit of naivety involved in believing that one could never succumb to temptation. Being naive does not always equal immature. And dating does not always lead to a permanent relationship.

His comments made it sound like it is a legal problem in his state, but the parents had given the OK for the relationship to continue anyway. If they were to give in to temptation, I don't know if that would count as statutory rape in his state. I have heard of kids getting in major trouble even though the age gap was even smaller.

I took his comment to be made in generalities. Not that he thought it was a concern in his situation. And he wasn't the first one that brought up the legal part of it in this thread. He asked for advice on activities and nothing more.

I think this thread got lost in the attacks on both sides. While I've always taken the stance that you have to accept the responses you get on a public forum, this one went a little overboard.

A simple "be careful" would have sufficed along with some ideas for activities.

[pam]

Also, he started another thread about "dating laws" only strengthening the impression that there was a legal problem in getting involved with this girl. If their relationship is legal, I would be happy to give ideas for dates, but I wasn't going to encourage something that would just get him into trouble.

He started that thread after the legalities were brought up in this one. I've read that thread and he is just voicing his thoughts about laws of this nature in general.

[slamjet]

A simple "be careful" would have sufficed along with some ideas for activities.

I would almost agree with you, until he brought up the "L" word. Then all the red flags went up. Look, I've been there, but I know what the consequences are. And it's no longer a matter of puppy love anymore. There are real bad consequences if (and when) things go south. And it's more than just pregnancy these days. He's putting himself in a very, very bad situation with nasty legal ramifications.

He now cannot say he hasn't been warned. I hope he really thinks this through and brings this relationship back to reality, not fantasy.

[MorningStar]

He started that thread after the legalities were brought up in this one. I've read that thread and he is just voicing his thoughts about laws of this nature in general.

Unfortunately, he made it sound like he was unsatisfied with the law in that thread, which was concerning. I'm not really understanding why he brought up the age thing. He could have just said, "I have a new girlfriend and would love some ideas for dates."

[pam]

I guess it's a matter of interpretation. I didn't take it that way at all.

And how many of us have asked for advice by bringing up some of the background information as well? He was no different.

[MorningStar]

This phrase in this thread was alarming:

Yes, I know to keep it legal. The one thing I do not get is the whole 16 still being underage (no I don't mean it like that lol). Think about it. It kind of contradicts another law or at least it does here in NC. Here in NC a person can get married at 16 with consent and marriage does not have an age limit yet laws are strict with dating. I hope you get what I'm saying with that.

That implies, "If we had sex, I would be breaking the law." Then he goes on to tell us that he plans on hanging out alone with her and slow dancing.

[pam]

Again a matter of interpretation. We don't REALLY know what he was thinking.

[Wingnut]

Age spread is irrelevant in this case. It's an 18 year old going after a 16 year old. She is still a child. And so is he for thinking that it's appropriate to be serious with her.

He's 19 or 20 by now -- it's more than a two year spread.

Sad that one can be so cavalier as to disregard, and even outright reject, dating advice repeated for several decades by several recent prophets, and yet expect results different than forewarned of.

If you have an issue with the nature of the advice given here, then you clearly have an issue with following the counsel of prophets. And that IMO, is very telling.

That's what has bothered me. Yes, there have been a lot of attacks on LDSChristian, but much of what he's thrown back has been comments that disregard the counsel that prophets have given regarding dating and caution. We should never consider ourselves the exception to a rule -- that's where trouble starts.

I agree with Pam that the attacks have been quite harsh, but I do think the off-topic advice and commentary has been warranted. Just not quite so heated, perhaps. To the OP, I would say this: in several threads that you have started, at some point you've lashed out at those participating, accusing them/us of attacking you. shooting down your ideas, and calling you immature (and more)...it's a recurring theme. With such a frequent and consistent level of response to your posts, perhaps it's time to look in the mirror?

[LDSChristian]

Not only could it be statutory rape, but lewd and lascivious conduct with a minor requiring him to register as a sex offender for possibly life as well as mandatory jail (if less than a year)/prison time (if more than a year). Then the parents could get nailed on failure to protect, having DCFS coming down on them.

This is not a game he's playing here, it's real life with real consequences. He needs to grow up and shape up.

You realize it's only statutory rape if sex or the corresponding things with it are involved right? What's with people and implying the whole "if they're going to be alone they're going to have sex"? By implying it you make me wonder exactly how mature you are. You think alone means sex, is this possibly because of a personal experience? Did anything like that happen? Nope. We sat around, watched TV, laughed, talked, and just spent some wonderful time together. No arguments or anything either.

[LDSChristian]

Wow, looks like I've missed out on all the "fun" today.

I'm rather appalled at the direction this thread took. All LDSChristian asked for is some ideas for some fun activities and wow..look at what he got.

He didn't ask for advice on whether he should date the person. He asked for advice on some ideas of activities they could enjoy. I may not have always agreed with comments LDSChristian has made on the site but this seriously was not something he deserved.

"Alone time" isn't always what the phrase implies. In my opinion, sometimes it can mean just being away from family and friends and concentrating on each other. That can also be in public settings. So it would have been more worthwhile to come up with activities they could enjoy in public yet still have the opportunity to interract with each other.

The personal attacks need to stop. Let's answer the question that he brought up in his OP.

Thank you. I do agree, you and I don't always see eye to eye. And yes, "alone time" just meant being alone so we could spend some time with each other away from everyone else. We watched Jeff Dunham . We also used the time to talk and get to know each other even better. As you see in my other post, my mom was at work and my dad actually left so me and her could have some alone time. I didn't know there's a rule saying if a guy is going to be alone with a girl they have to have sex or something. That's what it sounds like in here.

When people say you have to be in public places to avoid temptation it makes me wonder what the specific reason is for those people saying it. Meaning I wonder if it comes from their experiences.