Jamie123 Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Why is it such a great virtue to "have faith" - particularly in something you can't see, hear, touch and smell, but which you are supposedly rewarded for believing in? If I announced my intention to jump out of an aeroplane without a parachute, "having faith" that I would be rescued by a giant albatross, would I be admired for that? Would people say "What a great man of faith! If only I had his faith!"? Would they heck as like. They'd put me in the loony bin. Yet we are supposed to believe in something just because a 2000 year old book - possibly with a lot of errors in it - tells us so, and that some people we've never met have supposedly seen angels - and considered good, admirable, praiseworthy people if we do....? Sorry. I'm not usually this negative. Just having a crisis of faith at the moment... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravin Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 (edited) Actually, from the LDS perspective, you're supposed to believe because you've received a witness of the truth for yourself. Faith is still required though, even if it's just faith that what you experienced wasn't your mind playing tricks on you or indigestion. Faith is a lot like bravery, depending on your perspective both can be viewed as stupidity. Edited March 29, 2011 by Dravin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slamjet Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Now this is an incredibly important question and subject. I'll be interested to see what the replies are. As for me, the only thing that I could add is to read Alma 32. Even if you aren't into the Book of Mormon, it's an incredibly wonderful sermon on faith, what it is, how to get it, how it applies to us in real life, and when it turns from faith to knowledge. When I was questioning everything in the world, I read it over and over again and dared to put it to the test. It might help you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bini Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Yet we are supposed to believe in something just because a 2000 year old book - possibly with a lot of errors in it - tells us so, and that some people we've never met have supposedly seen angels - and considered good, admirable, praiseworthy people if we do....?Dravin, beat me to it: "Actually, from the LDS perspective, you're supposed to believe because you've received a witness of the truth for yourself."---Anyway, the "big deal" about having faith for myself, is simply that I wouldn't have lived as long as I have without it. I've been in some pretty dark places in my life and without faith in the Lord, I wouldn't have been able to face the demons that I have been able to conquer and overcome. And I can promise you, that back in those days of recklessness and self-destruction, the last thing I wanted to acknowledge is Christ and Heavenly Father. I was prideful, selfish and lost.. It took a lot of faith and humility to get on those knee bones and pray in my darkest moments to rise above the muck I had buried myself in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie123 Posted March 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Dravin, beat me to it: "Actually, from the LDS perspective, you're supposed to believe because you've received a witness of the truth for yourself."Ah...but consider Moroni's promise:And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy GhostThe entire thing is predicated on faith. "You must have faith first, then you will be given the witness upon which to believe." It's Catch 22. I've always thought this was one of the biggest holes in Mormonism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applepansy Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 It can be viewed as a hole until it happens to you, then when you receive that witness....well, its hard to deny. For me its impossible to deny. Over the years as I've believed and received the witness its just built on the last one until the whole experience is just amazing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bini Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Ah...but consider Moroni's promise:The entire thing is predicated on faith. "You must have faith first, then you will be given the witness upon which to believe." It's Catch 22. I've always thought this was one of the biggest holes in Mormonism.I see what you're saying. My second comment fits perfectly. As I had faith in the Lord before getting on my knees and praying for help in my life of chaos. As for the scripture, I wasn't even aware of its existence. I'm sure someone else can chime in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravin Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 (edited) Well for my part I was just responding to the assertion/implication that we're just supposed to take some guys' word on the matter and leave it to that. As I noted one can't escape the need for faith. That said Alma 32 sets a fairly low bar for the development of faith. Edited March 30, 2011 by Dravin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefche Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 That's one of the things I like about Alma 32--he says if all you have is a desire to believe, then work with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Why is it such a great virtue to "have faith" - particularly in something you can't see, hear, touch and smell, but which you are supposedly rewarded for believing in?If I announced my intention to jump out of an aeroplane without a parachute, "having faith" that I would be rescued by a giant albatross, would I be admired for that? Would people say "What a great man of faith! If only I had his faith!"? Would they heck as like. They'd put me in the loony bin.Yet we are supposed to believe in something just because a 2000 year old book - possibly with a lot of errors in it - tells us so, and that some people we've never met have supposedly seen angels - and considered good, admirable, praiseworthy people if we do....?Sorry. I'm not usually this negative. Just having a crisis of faith at the moment... What is the big deal? how about having faith in electrons - who do you know that has seen an electron? Who do you know that really understands very much about electrons other than lots of stuff that is claimed by so-called experts that say electrons always can be trusted.So why spend any money to have a house wired and why think that just because you turn on a switch a light will come on. And if the light does not come on - why not assume that electrons have changed their behavoir. Why have faith is something that no one can really explain. Kind of dumb and stuped to have faith - right?The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayanna Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 hope, faith and belief are all three different things...a hope is like a wish.faith is the evidence of things hoped for which are not seen, but are true.Belief is a choice that you make, you weigh options, turn it over and decide. While my dog is ugly, I can choose to believe that she is beautiful because of her behavior and general pleasant temperment...she's a sweetie, therefore I redefine the word beautiful in order to fit her in it.Faith is something you cannot deny without lying. When I have faith I can look around at the world around me and see that obviously the world was created. My eyes see evidence. I have eyes that see, and ears that hear. If I then were to tell my nieghbor that there is no evidence in the earth of God, I know I would be lying. When Applepansy says she cannot deny it, that shows that she has moved past 'choosing to believe' and on to faith.If you ask Christ a question, you must first have some experience with Him, otherwise when the question is anwered who do you think is giving you the answer? You could then turn to someone and say, "I got an answer, but I don't know who it was from, it could have been from Satan."If first you know Christ, then you ask Him a question, He answers it, you can say, "I know this is what Christ thinks, because He said so."First faith in Christ, then move on to other things. If I pray to HF through Jesus Christ, and I get an answer, I then have the opportunity to choose whether or not to believe that answer. If I do choose to believe, I will give myself more opportunities to gather evidence. Then after experiences gathering evidence, I develop faith.hope + action = beliefbelief + evidence = faith You've lost your hope. Stopped your action. Choosen not to believe. Now faith is completely out of the question.How do you fix it? Hope, act on it, choose to believe in Christ, and gather some evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slamjet Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 I can remember sitting down with the Missionaries and them asking me if I have a testimony if the Church is true. The only thing I could say was "I think so, I'm not sure?" Their answer caught my attention: "That's OK." We then went into Alma 32. It's one place in the scriptures that gives us permission to have very little faith and doubts. But it shows us what to do with it and grow our tiny faith to knowledge. That was the start to my conversion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1000tears Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 I love all the answers here! There are many levels of faith. The way that I sometimes try to get people to relate to it is we exercise faith in our normal lives. How does faith play in your everyday life? Do you have faith in people around you or are you cynical about them? Do you have faith in your own talents and abilities. Or do you doubt them. These are things that have to be found out and tested. The point is that faith allows us to grow as a person and to find truth. It opens our hearts to exercise faith in other areas of our lives and as our faith grows we learn to trust it more and more. The stronger our faith is, the more sure we are about it and it makes it harder for someone to shake our own convictions. When we have strong convictions, we know who we are and what we believe in. Thus faith helps us grow and progress as individuals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmarch Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Why is it such a great virtue to "have faith" - particularly in something you can't see, hear, touch and smell, but which you are supposedly rewarded for believing in?If I announced my intention to jump out of an aeroplane without a parachute, "having faith" that I would be rescued by a giant albatross, would I be admired for that? Would people say "What a great man of faith! If only I had his faith!"? Would they heck as like. They'd put me in the loony bin.Yet we are supposed to believe in something just because a 2000 year old book - possibly with a lot of errors in it - tells us so, and that some people we've never met have supposedly seen angels - and considered good, admirable, praiseworthy people if we do....?Sorry. I'm not usually this negative. Just having a crisis of faith at the moment...I'd wait to see what happens. If it didn't happen then i'd say that your faith was misplaced (possibly due to insanity).Great faith and insanity aren't too far from each other, at lleast form others perspectives.Look at Jesus in the Bible, or Moses, or Elijah, or Joseph SMith or Brigham Young.I've heard plenty of experiences from others that have justified their faith, often times getting inspired to do something crazy or loony or just something that goes against common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rameumptom Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Paul taught that faith is "evidence of things not seen". It isn't a blind belief in something, such as in believing an albatross is going to save you from falling to earth. Faith must be based on evidence (different from proof and knowledge), otherwise it isn't true faith. For LDS, that faith rests mainly upon a spiritual witness given to each individual. However, there are other witnesses. When people are healed miraculously through a blessing, when there are personal revelations that come to pass, when there are evidences in LDS history of miracles occurring to large groups of people, THEN we have evidence. We do not believe in Jesus simply because the Bible tells us so. We believe because of our own spiritual witnesses, etc. This is why LDS have no problem in stating as one of our Articles of Faith: "we believe the Bible to be correct insofar as it is translated correctly". Had you experienced the miracles and revelations I've experienced, you wouldn't have any doubts, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipplecutBuddha Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Why is it such a great virtue to "have faith" - particularly in something you can't see, hear, touch and smell, but which you are supposedly rewarded for believing in?If I announced my intention to jump out of an aeroplane without a parachute, "having faith" that I would be rescued by a giant albatross, would I be admired for that? Would people say "What a great man of faith! If only I had his faith!"? Would they heck as like. They'd put me in the loony bin.Yet we are supposed to believe in something just because a 2000 year old book - possibly with a lot of errors in it - tells us so, and that some people we've never met have supposedly seen angels - and considered good, admirable, praiseworthy people if we do....?Sorry. I'm not usually this negative. Just having a crisis of faith at the moment...Having faith is a virtue because it implies trust. By having faith, exercising faith, and utilizing our faith, we demonstrate to God our trust in Him. Abraham was promised a land of inheritance, something he never recieved in this life, yet his faith was strong because he trusted God's promise to him, and was thus blessed accordingly.Faith is a principle that applies to all of human action. Would the pyramids have been built if the designers didn't have faith in their plans? Would the founding fathers of the USA have embarked on a battle with the largest empire on earth if they didn't have faith in their cause? Would you go to work if you didn't have faith you'd get paid for your labors?When we are promised something from God, he is giving us an opportunity to utilize our faith to show that we trust him to keep his end of the bargain. A phrase from the Doctrine and Covenants comes to mind..."I the Lord am bound when ye do what I say, but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise."The cool part is that he wants to be bound through our faith in Him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connie Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Why is it such a great virtue to "have faith" - particularly in something you can't see, hear, touch and smell, but which you are supposedly rewarded for believing in?If I announced my intention to jump out of an aeroplane without a parachute, "having faith" that I would be rescued by a giant albatross, would I be admired for that? Would people say "What a great man of faith! If only I had his faith!"? Would they heck as like. They'd put me in the loony bin.Yet we are supposed to believe in something just because a 2000 year old book - possibly with a lot of errors in it - tells us so, and that some people we've never met have supposedly seen angels - and considered good, admirable, praiseworthy people if we do....?Sorry. I'm not usually this negative. Just having a crisis of faith at the moment..."Faith is a road to truth, without which some truths can never be reached at all. The reason for its inevitableness in life is not our lack of knowledge, but rather that faith is as indispensable as logical demonstration in any real knowing in the world. Faith is not a substitute for truth, but a pathway to truth."-Pres. Hugh B. Brown (Oct. 1969 General Conference)Hope that helps. I thought it was a very good and true quote.Pax vobiscum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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