If cannabis were to become legal

[FanOf31]

And offered as a prescription drug, would the church be against it if you had a health reason to use it? The only reason I ask is because I know of it's values and it's negative effects. The fact the church allows us to use prescription pills which are 1000 times worse for us (our liver specifically) brought this question to mind. The answer "no because thc alters your mind when you are under it's influence" doesn't hold true since prescription pills do the same thing.

[slamjet]

If one knew drug addicts and the effect this "harmless drug" really has, then one would understand that this falls under the Word of Wisdom's line of "Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation..." (D&C 89:4)

My opinion, anyone who say's pot is not a gateway drug as it has been portrayed falls under this category.

[Suzie]

And offered as a prescription drug, would the church be against it if you had a health reason to use it?

It is already happening. There are members who have a prescription for cannabis, the Bishops are aware of that fact and they're members in good standing, in some cases even with a temple recommend . I know one personally but I do know there are others out there. The key here is the medical prescription and of course, the Bishop thoughts about it.

[applepansy]

If you have a medical need and a prescription then there isn't an issue with the WoW.

[NeuroTypical]

If cannabis were to become legal And offered as a prescription drug, would the church be against it if you had a health reason to use it?

So, in my opinion, medicinal MJ is a legitimate medicine, and there is a legitimate need for it. That said, here's my experience:

Years ago here in CO, a high councilman came on assignment from the Stake Pres, to a combined 3rd hour PH/RS meeting, to counsel us to vote against an upcoming measure that would legalize medicinal marijuana. He indicated the Father of Lies was behind the effort, and we all needed to act accordingly.

Anyway, the church lost. Not only is medicinal MJ legal here now, but the state has exploded with growers and dispensaries too.

The law says it's only for medicinal use.

The reality is:

* Now mj is basically legal, accessible, and not too expensive for anyone who wants it.

* There are still laws on the books about who can and can't have it, but cops have better things to pay attention to, and it's really hard to get anyone to prosecute.

* Any "doctor" can write a script for medicinal MJ. The laws define "doctor" as any medical doctor, or medical doctor in training. So basically, anyone taking a class at a community college qualifies as a "doctor in training".

* Local growers and dispensaries, and the government, are now working with drug cartels as a drug faction. Sometimes as a rival faction, which brings some of the lovely South-of-the-border violence into our state. Sometimes as a customer and distributor - meaning you can now legally support organizations that participate in kidnappings, murders, and child prostitution with your cannibis dollar.

* There is a gazillion percent increase in mj related crime. It's not really that the crime wasn't there before. It's because now the people getting jacked and the places getting broken into and robbed are now legitimate businessmen who now go to the cops for help.

* When dood and his honey wanted to get high, they used to find a dealer, buy mj, and go get high. Now dood goes to his cousin, who writes "pain script" or something on a piece of paper, then dood goes to a dispensary and buys his michuecan or brazillian tornado or maybe a nice brownie mix or even chocolate-dipped laced banana, and they go get high.

* The average dispensary customer is a male between 18-40. It's fun to watch ignorant people who think medicinal mj is wonderful and legit, try to explain this fact away.

Happy toking from smoky laid-back Colorado!

LM

(the colors, dude, the colors!)

[FanOf31]

Basically after I was ordained an Elder I was trying to go on my mission. I had turned my papers in and was doing everything necessary to go including obstaining from moral and word of wisdom issues. I moved while waiting for my call and I NEVER got my call. I have never heard of this type of thing happening to anyone, so I hope you can try and visualize where I'm coming from now. I basically turned my back on the church in a certain way but still believed it. I just didn't understand why I never got my mission call. I basically from that point within about a month of not hearing back started smoking weed, drinking, eating mushrooms, fornicating, and decided if it wasn't meant to be, then God didn't think it was for me. I never went against the church and always felt guilty for my sinning, but I definitely became mentally addicted to pot, not necessarily phyisically. I started hanging out with the wrong crowd, they weren't terrible shady people, just happy hippies that only did the natural things. I was fortunate enough and thank Heavenly Father I never touched the harder things that turn people into zombies and they either end up overdosing or going to prison. Could never stay loyal to any of my girlfriends and was just in a dark place. Finally everything got old and I've spent thousands of dollars on weed within about 7 years time. When I met my fiance I decided it was time to grow up and prepare to learn the true meaning of life which was NOT about partying as I slowly discovered. I've come a long way and have never EVER said the church isn't true. I don't do any of those things now and have been 100% loyal to my woman. It's hard to describe the difference that you feel when you do things the right way. I still though tend to think that weed is not really a big deal as I am so familiar with it and it's not what everyone makes it out to be, it's just not. However, if it's the Lord's will to obstain, then that's what I shall do. I just need to mentally prepare myself for a time when it might be legal with a prescription AND a time when the church says it's okay if you use it for medicinal purposes as I would most likely want it back in my life, but no other past time habits. Does this make me a bad person having this open-minded view? I personally know weed became illegal so paper manufacturing companies would thrive as hemp paper was about to take over as it's stronger and ten times cheaper and faster to grow. The drug companies need weed to be mostly illegal because people would stop buying all their terrible pills that kill yet make them billions. There are a lot of twisted laws such as (immigration in my opinion but we won't go there this time) and I always look at both sides. In my opinion thc is a natural gift from God when used in a proper manner which includes not smoking it as carcinogens will kill you. Sorry for the novel but I've always wanted to get other church member's take on this as I've been out of the church scene for so long. Thanks for taking the time to read this and give your opinion!

[Dravin]

So, in my opinion, medicinal MJ is a legitimate medicine, and there is a legitimate need for it. That said, here's my experience:

Years ago here in CO, a high councilman came on assignment from the Stake Pres, to a combined 3rd hour PH/RS meeting, to counsel us to vote against an upcoming measure that would legalize medicinal marijuana. He indicated the Father of Lies was behind the effort, and we all needed to act accordingly.

Anyway, the church lost. Not only is medicinal MJ legal here now, but the state has exploded with growers and dispensaries too.

The law says it's only for medicinal use.

Personally I think a member abusing medical marijuana laws to have a 'kosher' recreational smoke is in the same boat as something who does the same thing with Oxycontin. You may be able to fool yourself and your Bishop, but you won't be able to fool the Lord.

Also, and I'm probably channeling a bit from you on other threads, but I agree with you that the push for medical marijuana is weird as it's unlike other prescription drugs. You don't see limitations on how often you can smoke, or dosage restrictions (that I'm aware of, I could be wrong depending on various state laws). It'd be like handing someone a script for penicillin that says, "To be taken as desired, no restrictions on dosage or frequency."

Edited June 16, 2011 by Dravin

[Blackmarch]

And offered as a prescription drug, would the church be against it if you had a health reason to use it? The only reason I ask is because I know of it's values and it's negative effects. The fact the church allows us to use prescription pills which are 1000 times worse for us (our liver specifically) brought this question to mind. The answer "no because thc alters your mind when you are under it's influence" doesn't hold true since prescription pills do the same thing.

as a medical treatment properly controlled used I don't think that they will, on that issue alone. The issues would be how much easier would it be to abuse, as well as legalization for recreational use.

I don't see stores solely dedicated to other drugs strong or small, which is something that troubles me with Marijuanna.

[slamjet]

There are stores dedicated to alcohol with little else to sell.

[beefche]

You don't need a prescription for alcohol, though.

[Dravin]

as a medical treatment properly controlled used I don't think that they will, on that issue alone. The issues would be how much easier would it be to abuse, as well as legalization for recreational use.

I don't see stores solely dedicated to other drugs strong or small, which is something that troubles me with Marijuanna.

Depends what you mean by dedicated, there are drug stores/pharmacies.

Edit: And my concerns about medical marijuana would be the same even if you could get it at Walgreen's, but it kinda makes sense due to the fact you can't order cannabis through the same distribution chain you can penicillin and that it is still against federal law that larger more diverse chains would be disinclined to pick it up for sale. That leaves you with smaller distributors willing to take the risk, also if one doesn't have to be a pharmacist* to run such a shop then they probably can't sell any other prescriptions. Which would leave them selling OTC stuff only.

* Which would be another way it differs from other prescription drugs if it is the case.

Edited June 16, 2011 by Dravin

[NeuroTypical]

You don't need a prescription for alcohol, though.

Again, here in CO, "prescriptions" are easily available for anyone who wants one - no valid need necessary. We set the system up so it wouldn't be that way, and yet here we are.

[slamjet]

You don't need a prescription for alcohol, though.

Point taken.

[Vort]

Tough issue, because (forgive me for creating an artificial distinction) there is a correct answer and there is a right answer, and the two are different.

The correct answer is: Of course we should allow medicinal marijuana. Using a relatively harmless herb to mitigate serious chronic pain? How can this even be a question? You can get over-the-counter drugs with arguably more dangerous side effects and potential for abuse than cannabis.

The right answer appears to be: No, we should not allow it. It is an excuse for recreational use. The number of people who would actually benefit from such a law is very small, while the number of abusers (and their concomitant overall effect on society) would be very large. Most of the potential beneficiaries could be treated with existing legal drugs as well as, or in many cases better than, they would be treated with marijuana. So the cost-benefit analysis to society clearly shows it is better to disallow medicinal marijuana.

Of course, to those who insist that there is no harm in smoking pot, the above paragraph will be specious.

Maybe sometimes Balkanization is the only reasonable option. "When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation." At what point do we start drafting out the reasons?

[Dravin]

The right answer appears to be: No, we should not allow it.

Actually I'd be more inclined to say: We should allow it but only if significantly controlled. If it was handled like opiates it'd be a much easier sell that the reason (rather than the excuse) is to allow marijuana to be used as needed (as opposed to desired) for those situations where it is effective and better alternatives are available*. Which I suppose boils down to, "Yes, but not how it's being done."

*Which of course if marijuana is always the poorer alternative kinda kicks the legs out of that argument but I don't actually know if such is the case.

And of course as you point out, if the argument is not a medicinal one such concerns about (some) controls and efficiency are moot.

Maybe sometimes Balkanization is the only reasonable option. "When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation." At what point do we start drafting out the reasons?

Is this in response to Federal legality? Because once you remove the federal control of it there is no reason to dissolve any political bans if Utah wants it illegal but California wants it legal (medicinal or otherwise).

[NeuroTypical]

The right answer appears to be: No, we should not allow it. It is an excuse for recreational use. The number of people who would actually benefit from such a law is very small, while the number of abusers (and their concomitant overall effect on society) would be very large.

Don't forget the joys that come with US growers and dispensaries and governments joining the world drug trade as rival factions, or sometimes as customers. If you listen carefully, you'll hear that we don't call them Drug Trafficking Organizations any longer. We now call them Transnational Criminal Organizations - which rightly acknowledges the other fun things they do like child prostitution and kidnapping and slavery and bloody mass-murdering and stuff, no longer limited to any particular side of any particular border.

[FanOf31]

Tough issue, because (forgive me for creating an artificial distinction) there is a correct answer and there is a right answer, and the two are different.

The correct answer is: Of course we should allow medicinal marijuana. Using a relatively harmless herb to mitigate serious chronic pain? How can this even be a question? You can get over-the-counter drugs with arguably more dangerous side effects and potential for abuse than cannabis.

The right answer appears to be: No, we should not allow it. It is an excuse for recreational use. The number of people who would actually benefit from such a law is very small, while the number of abusers (and their concomitant overall effect on society) would be very large. Most of the potential beneficiaries could be treated with existing legal drugs as well as, or in many cases better than, they would be treated with marijuana. So the cost-benefit analysis to society clearly shows it is better to disallow medicinal marijuana.

Of course, to those who insist that there is no harm in smoking pot, the above paragraph will be specious.

Maybe sometimes Balkanization is the only reasonable option. "When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation." At what point do we start drafting out the reasons?

When you say "Most of the potential beneficiaries could be treated with existing legal drugs as well as, or in many cases better than, they would be treated with marijuana". what are you referring to? I hope not pills, as pills are all terrible for you! Smoking is bad and everyone knows it, but what about vaporizing or eating it? I think the church just thinks being high on it allows the devil to have greater influence on you, and THAT in my opinion might just be true but I don't know for sure.

[applepansy]

You don't need a prescription for alcohol, though.

That depends on the medical need.

At age 20, pregnant and having false labor, my doctor told me to drink vodka to stop the contractions. This is an old school treatment for false labor. I wasn't old enough to buy it. My mom (LDS and an RN) bought it for me. My husband wouldn't. So.... my doctor gave me a prescription.

It works to stop the false labor and doesn't stop real labor. There are other medical uses for alcohol.

[Blackmarch]

Depends what you mean by dedicated, there are drug stores/pharmacies.

in that a store is set up only to distribute only one kind of drug. Technically there isn't anything wrong with that... i just find it a little disturbing.

Edit: And my concerns about medical marijuana would be the same even if you could get it at Walgreen's, but it kinda makes sense due to the fact you can't order cannabis through the same distribution chain you can penicillin and that it is still against federal law that larger more diverse chains would be disinclined to pick it up for sale. That leaves you with smaller distributors willing to take the risk, also if one doesn't have to be a pharmacist* to run such a shop then they probably can't sell any other prescriptions. Which would leave them selling OTC stuff only.

* Which would be another way it differs from other prescription drugs if it is the case.

and with marijaunna you're bound to have custumers... so not much incentive to risk investing in other OTC stuff that would be occasional, or have potential other problems, If what you say is a significant factor (it makes sense).

[NeuroTypical]

Interesting historical tidbits: Back in Prohibition days, physicians were writing prescriptions for liquor on prescription forms provided by the government. Pharmacies kept medicinal whiskey stocked, and the government produced it.

Churches and clergy also could receive wine for the sacrament - and there are a lot of accounts of people becoming ministers and rabbis and whatnot in order to get and distribute wine legally.

[AGStacker]

They have never said anything directly against marijuana. It is an herb which God created and it has many benefits to it. I think if anything, the evil designs come from governments making it illegal because they'd rather profit off selling prescription pills. Anyone could go in their backyard and grow marijuana but this isn't profitable.

Their are nonviolent criminals in jail because of smoking marijuana. This is idiocy in its purest forms. Do I think people should use it while driving? Of course not. Should it be legalized? Of course it should. We saw what prohibition created.

The fact is if you support the Constitution than you would support no laws prohibiting marijuana. It isn't the government's responsibility to control everything you do.

Also, many Mormons think it is OK to be 500 pounds or pop prescription pills like it is candy because the governments approve but don't you DARE touch marijuana!

Drinking wine or smoking cigarettes DO NOT make you a bad person but God knows the risk of doing so. Drunk driving accident, lung cancer, possibly infidelity while drunk, losing virginity, unwanted child etc. It isn't wise to partake in things that can potentially cause harm. The only harm I see with marijuana is the risk of being thrown in jail because the government has made it illegal.

For the record, I am 25 and have NEVER consumed alcohol, cigarettes, marijuana or illegal drugs (including pharmaceuticals besides when I had pneumonia, very painful). Never! I just thoroughly understand the Constitution whereas my fellow brethren and sisters do not.

I know many here will disagree with me but the truth will win in the end.

[Vort]

They have never said anything directly against marijuana.

Not so. Just last October, in General Conference, Elder Ballard said: "Some of the most addictive drugs that, if abused, can hijack the brain and take away one’s agency include nicotine; opiates—heroin, morphine, and other painkillers; tranquilizers; cocaine; alcohol; marijuana; and methamphetamines."

Their are nonviolent criminals in jail because of smoking marijuana. This is idiocy in its purest forms. Do I think people should use it while driving? Of course not. Should it be legalized? Of course it should. We saw what prohibition created.

Yes. Prohibition created an environment where non-gang-related violent crime and domestic violence rates both plummeted. If not for the proliferation of organized crime (a problem which began and gained strength before the 18th amendment was ever passed, and which continued long after Prohibition ended) and the extensive systemic corruption introduced by it, overall crime rates would have dropped significantly.

The fact is if you support the Constitution than you would support no laws prohibiting marijuana.

Not everyone agrees with your interpretation of the Constitution.

It isn't the government's responsibility to control everything you do.

No. It is the government's responsibility to insure domestic tranquility, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty for ourselves and our posterity, all of which belie marijuana distribution and use.

Also, many Mormons think it is OK to be 500 pounds or pop prescription pills like it is candy because the governments approve but don't you DARE touch marijuana!

Please show me the Mormons who "think it is OK to be 500 pounds or pop prescription pills like it is candy". I do not believe such Mormons exist. If they do, they are a tiny, insignificant minority. Even (or especially) 500-pound Mormons don't think it's OK.

Drinking wine or smoking cigarettes DO NOT make you a bad person

How about intentionally breaking the law? Does that make you a bad person?

The only harm I see with marijuana is the risk of being thrown in jail because the government has made it illegal.

The fact that you fail to recognize the very real health and social dangers of marijuana usage is hardly a convincing argument for legalization.

I just thoroughly understand the Constitution whereas my fellow brethren and sisters do not.

Quite the bravado for a 25-year-old. You ought to consider the possibility that, just maybe, it's you whose values and perceptions are wrong, and not everyone else's.

I know many here will disagree with me but the truth will win in the end.

And the truth is that we should be 420 friendly?

[AGStacker]

Imprisoning millions of people for marijuana use is not providing for the general welfare of the people. Intentionally breaking unconstitutional laws? Do you understand what the Constitution is? It is the supreme law of this land and no law can negate it by any means meaning if I wish to intake marijuana the government has no legal authority to tell me no. 420 friendly? I am correct on what the Constitution says. It is not the government's responsibility to tell me what I can or cannot take into my body.

Many Mormons do not understand the war in Heaven. How do you think Satan executes his plan? He does it primarily through government and the United States is no exception. We were warned specifically in Ether to "awake" to our "awful situation" and warned to not let secret combinations get above us. The government conspires against the people. They did so in the Old and New Testaments, the Book of Mormon and in the early days of the Church and they definitely do so now. It is wrong to believe that someone who intakes marijuana to self medicate is going to suffer damnation. The early Apostles and saints drank and smoked regularly. The Word of Wisdom, which I recognize are commandments now, helped the people better respect and take care of their bodies. We obey the Word of Wisdom now as a commandment because it isn't worth the risks. The risks that I mentioned in my previous post.

Marijuana has proven medical benefits. Here is one of them.

Cannabis and Cannabinoids (PDQ®) - National Cancer Institute

Edited June 17, 2011 by AGStacker

[AGStacker]

I don't disagree that actual act of smoking marijuana is totally dumb and would have negative side effects but it can be taken without smoking it.

[NeuroTypical]

Anyone could go in their backyard and grow marijuana but this isn't profitable.

Could I ask you to go back in this thread and read my posts? Not profitable indeed. If that doesn't do it for you, maybe this link will. (It's a slow load, because of so many pins on the map.) And this is just Colorado, one of 15 states to have legalized MMJ.

The only harm I see with marijuana is the risk of being thrown in jail because the government has made it illegal.

Could I ask you to go back in this thread and read my posts? Or are you arguing that supporting transational criminal organizations, with all the child prostitution, kidnapping, and murdering that goes along with them doesn't qualify as "harm"?

I know many here will disagree with me but the truth will win in the end.

It won't as long as people talk past each other and refuse to interact with facts placed before them...