Does being religious make you more judgemental?

[Suzie]

This question is open to all members of this board, whether they're LDS or not. I would like to know if you think that being religious or if religion can make someone more judgmental towards others, more critical and less tolerant compared to those who are not religious and if that's the case, what is the reason?

[Dravin]

If we're talking unrighteous judgement, if you are an atheist you won't be passing judgement on someone's final disposition in the next life and that cuts down a lot on that avenue, though the standard you are a inferior/bad person is still available I suppose.

If we're talking about judgement of the "your behavior is wrong" type, it wouldn't surprise me. Actually I would expect it because religions (by and large) have behaviors that are delineated as wrong. A less religious person (or some other religions) don't have that issue. Consider the LDS position (and quite a few other Christians) on chastity, extra marital sex is wrong. Remove the underpinnings of religion and one can take a morally relativistic viewpoint on more subjects.

Edited October 2, 2011 by Dravin

[Suzie]

The issue with the question is judging is not necessarily bad. The issue is unrighteous judgement. Considering if you are an atheist you won't be passing judgement on someone's final disposition in the next life and that cuts down a lot on that avenue, though the standard you are a inferior/bad person is still available I suppose.

If we're talking about judgement of the "your behavior is wrong" type, it wouldn't surprise me. Actually I would expect it because religions (by and large) have behaviors that are delineated as wrong. A less religious person (or some other religions) don't have that issue. Consider the LDS position (and quite a few other Christians) on chastity, extra marital sex is wrong. Obviously that's a judgement one isn't going to make without the underpinning belief.

Thanks for the answer Dravin. Yes, I meant judgement as "your behavior is wrong".

And yes, it is true that someone who are not religious don't have that issue. Having said that, I wonder where is the line drawn between knowing what is right and wrong and now passing judgement on those who don't live according to our beliefs or expectations? (including those of our own faith). It seems to me (in my personal experiences of course) that those who claim to be religious are often more harsh, more critical, more judgmental and I wonder if it is because (somewhere in our little brain and our natural man behavior) perhaps we deem ourselves to be above others or better than others? (not consciously).

I would love PrisonChaplain to answer this thread.

Edited October 2, 2011 by Suzie

[Backroads]

While a big part of me is all "Nooo!!!! Being religious does not automatically make you a judgmental meanie-head!" I do think that yes, religiousness can contribute to being judgmental. In my mind there is a difference between righteous judgement and a judgmental attitude. "Judgmental" leaves a bad taste in my mouth--it seems to disregard spirit of the law and intent of the heart in favor of mere actions.

I was thinking about today's talk about justifying our actions and moral choices. While I did indeed agree with the talk, part of me did have to play Devil's Advocate and I wondered whose morality is the correct one. I think, to a certain extent, we can justify our morality. But because religions tend to be very black-and-white with a lot of moral behavior and those religious have plenty of writings and saying to back them up, I think it can get easier to focus on those actions and not on the heart and intent of people.

Let's be honest... does anyone like the ones who "darn y'all to hell" for your miniscule actions?"

[Guest mormonmusic]

It probably doesn't surprise anyone that I think religion CAN lead to excess judgmentalism, although there are many who recognize that and curb it.

Why is this so? I'm going to rely on some recent training I took from Gallup Corporation as a Strengths Mentor. They have a personality test that identifies your five major sources of "passion" -- things you naturally do that can be productive if channelled properly. There are 34 "Strengths" or patterns of thinking and acting. Only two are relevent to this discussion.

The first is Belief. People with Belief have a core set of values that drives their behavior. In my experience working with people from Christian schools, the people with Belief in their top 5 Strengths tend to be driven by religious values. They are ethical, have a strong sense of right and wrong. I believe belonging to a group of people who share their values (a Church) tends to reinforce this significantly. A downside is they tend to be unsympathetic to people who make mistakes. If others "sin" or break rules, people with Belief tend to look at the negative consequences as just reward for what the person did.

The other is Empathy. Someone strong in Belief, but with little Empathy has to be on guard about being too judgmental. Not only do they have the just world hypothesis of Belief leading them to believe others deserve what they get, and tend to judge them harshly based on their group's values, they don't have Empathy to temper that harshness.

But Empathy is a blessing of hardship. I notice my wife, who is strong in Belief, has a real "shoot the dirty rascals" attitude toward anyone who is part of a high profile crime or who gets themselves into a suffering situation from their own bad choices. She thinks the criminals should get a harsh punishment for what she assumes they did.

However, she had a period of many years when she was unable to have children. She is very loving and kind toward women who are childless. She doesn't judge women who choose to work outside the home, or who have delayed children, because, as she says "we don't know the reasons". Although she still lacks empathy in a variety of other areas, the areas in which she has been forced to suffer has unleashed a great amount of kindness and non-judgmentalism toward others.

I believe the Savior was strong in Belief, but also Empathy. Harsh judgments were tempered with Empathy for the person. Without condoning what the person did, He understands their weakness, the circumstances which might have prompted the thought to sin, and also sees the person's need for self-forgiveness and change.

I think He knew very well the tendency for people strong in Belief to be judgmental, which led to his Judge Not scripture we read about in the New Testament. That's why he said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone".

It dawned on me a while ago that I have very little authority to judge anyone. As a university teacher I judge the quality of student's writing, and how I should behave within my own microcosm. Occasionally I have been part of disciplinary councils in the Church, and have been asked to give an opinion on whether someone should be subject to certain levels of Church discipline. As a parent, my kids occasionally come to me with a conflict, and I must mediate, sometimes making my best judgment about what happened.

Beyond that, I have no authority. All I can do is decide what is right and good in my own life. At least I have intimate knowledge of all the factors affecting me -- as far as I can see. When someone does something, and I'm tempted to judge, I always remind myself that I don't have all the facts. Nor do I know their background. Nor can I rival the impact of potentially, decades of hardship or other factors that led others to make decisions I might think are questionable after a moment's thought.

Sadly, judgmentalism doesnt' get a lot of attention in the landscape of teaching and training I've seen in some of the Churches I've belonged to, as I see judgmentalism everywhere -- often among the people who believe themselves to me among Christ's most ardent followers as I've seen with the Christian school people I work with.

[NeuroTypical]

Being overly or underly judgemental happens for a wide range of reasons - religious belief is merely one facet.

Surely, there are plenty of self-righteous judgemental jerks to go around - in and out of churches. Scripture takes a bit of study to sort through all the counsel and commandments.

Required reading for anyone wishing to know how to properly judge: “Judge Not” and Judging by Elder Dallin H. Oaks

[a1000tears]

Can religion lead to being judgmental...hmmmm...I'm not sure about that. I think we all form judgements at early ages prior to the influence of religion. There are so many factor's that lead to people being judgmental. I think being human we all do it, especially when we gossip about one another. But I think the error lies when we start thinking of ourselves better or start to measure our own worth against others and vice versa. Aside from all that, is it really religion we are talking about or culture. Each religious faction have cultures within themselves and I would think culture has more influence on that then religion.

[LeKook]

Personally I think once I've crossed over to being judgmental of another human being for any reason, I cease to be Christlike in the finest sense of the word. It's a warning sign for me, in other words, that I've lost compassion for others, the same compassion Christ has for me. That's not to say I condone certain actions of others, but to write someone off as being permanently lost based on my own faulty observations, well, that can't be a good thing.

[Vort]

This question is open to all members of this board, whether they're LDS or not. I would like to know if you think that being religious or if religion can make someone more judgmental towards others, more critical and less tolerant compared to those who are not religious and if that's the case, what is the reason?

In my experience, the irreligious tend to be far, far more judgmental and condemnatory toward those who don't live by their (the irreligious') rules than do the vast majority of religious folks. Religion tends to foster tolerance, which is probably one of the reasons every civilized society is historically religious.

[beefche]

If we propose to be "religious", then aren't we REQUIRED to judge? It's not as if I'm going to walk up to someone and say, "you are a horrible person because you have premarital sex!" But, I am going to understand that premarital sex is wrong. If that person asks for my opinion, I'll share it--respectfully, but honestly. I'll speak openly about my beliefs and really live them.

One of the speakers in Conference (can't remember which one) said something about not being afraid to stand up for our beliefs--not excuse or mitigate our beliefs. So, how is it that if I speak openly against sinful behaviors and be an example of moral behavior (not a perfect one as no one is perfect), that makes me overtly critical?

[skippy740]

Maybe!

Take this as an example:

Jewish mother stereotype - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Jewish mother or wife stereotype is a common stereotype and stock character used by Jewish comedians and authors whenever they discuss actual or fictional situations involving their mothers or other females in their lives who possess mother-like qualities. The stereotype generally involves a nagging, overprotective, manipulative, controlling, smothering, and overbearing mother or wife, one who persists in interfering in her children's lives long after they have become adults.[1] Lisa Aronson Fontes describes the stereotype as one of "endless caretaking and boundless self-sacrifice" by a mother who demonstrates her love by "constant overfeeding and unremitting solicitude about every aspect of her children's and husband's welfare".[2]

Just another stereotypical example... and it's NOT limited to "Jewish" mothers... but to anyone.

[Blackmarch]

This question is open to all members of this board, whether they're LDS or not. I would like to know if you think that being religious or if religion can make someone more judgmental towards others, more critical and less tolerant compared to those who are not religious and if that's the case, what is the reason?

Considering all the discussions ive been in.... Religion does not have a noticeable impact in how judgemental someone is. Theres equal number of -bleeps- on both sides of the fence...

However it seems that the religion camp generally has a couple more folk who take longer to get their buttons pushed before blowing up.

[Backroads]

If we propose to be "religious", then aren't we REQUIRED to judge? It's not as if I'm going to walk up to someone and say, "you are a horrible person because you have premarital sex!" But, I am going to understand that premarital sex is wrong. If that person asks for my opinion, I'll share it--respectfully, but honestly. I'll speak openly about my beliefs and really live them.

One of the speakers in Conference (can't remember which one) said something about not being afraid to stand up for our beliefs--not excuse or mitigate our beliefs. So, how is it that if I speak openly against sinful behaviors and be an example of moral behavior (not a perfect one as no one is perfect), that makes me overtly critical?

I think this is where we get the opposite side of the fence, the people Vort mentioned. Now I want to say that not being religious does not automatically make one judgmental, just as being religious does not make one jugdmental. Beefche, I don't think any fair-minded person would call your assessment of premarital sex has judgmental.

In the non-religious camp, I do think you get a group of people that are so defensive against those criticizing your beliefs they're ready to snap anytime someone says "Hi, I'm Betty and I'm <insert religion.>"

[Guest mormonmusic]

If we propose to be "religious", then aren't we REQUIRED to judge?

Only when placed in a rightful position to do so. Wc can judge for ourselves what is right and wrong for our own life decisions , but the actions of others -- unless their decisions impact us, or have the potential to force us to act against our conscience, we often have no business judging the decisions of others.

It's not as if I'm going to walk up to someone and say, "you are a horrible person because you have premarital sex!" But, I am going to understand that premarital sex is wrong. If that person asks for my opinion, I'll share it--respectfully, but honestly. I'll speak openly about my beliefs and really live them.

Here you said "IF THEY ASK"...there is a big difference between someone asking for your opinion, and passing judgment on others in the back office. I think it's the latter situation we're questionoing here, not the first.

However, even when asked what we think, I would hope we would invest the necessary time in understanding the person's situation before necessarily giving a harsh, blunt judgment. Some matters are black and white, but ordinarily, many are very grey. If asked, I would want to err on the side of really understanding the person's life situation, efforts they have made so far, and other factors that would influence my opinion.

One of the speakers in Conference (can't remember which one) said something about not being afraid to stand up for our beliefs--not excuse or mitigate our beliefs. So, how is it that if I speak openly against sinful behaviors and be an example of moral behavior (not a perfect one as no one is perfect), that makes me overtly critical?

Nothing wrong with being an example of moral behavior through one's daily actions. Be a Light, not a judge. Speaking up -- well, here is where one must use a lot of judgment about whether it's one's place to speak up. If asked to participate in something that violates a person's moral code, then it's time to speak up, kindly and respectfully. But in my view, we speak up about whether we are going to participate. If pressed, we may give reasons. But we dont' grandstand all our moral opinions an alienate others as a result.

When a law is being passed that could make it hard to live a certain moral code, then we have every right to participate in the process.

There are so many ways in which people do pass judgment that is none of their business, their opinion not asked for, or when they are asked, they deliver their "judgment" so harshly as to lose all influence over the person asking the question. Or they see a situation, and react in a way that is judgmental without even considering the vast quantity of unknown facts that may justify the person's behavior.

[annewandering]

If you are truly religious then how can you be judgmental?

[Vort]

If you are truly religious then how can you be judgmental?

What do you mean by "judgmental"?

Can you give examples? For example, is God judgmental? Is a bishop in council judgmental? Is a stake president who excommunicates an adulterer judgmental?

Knowing what you mean by the term will aid in giving an answer that makes sense.

[beefche]

I'm so totally confused.

What is judgment? Are ya'll talking about "unrighteous" judgment? That is, assigning fault or condemnation for the individual? Or are you talking about making a decision or stand on words, behavior, actions, standards, etc.?

Obviously, the former is wrong. The latter is required of us each and every day.

In particular, I think of this board. We have dozens of people come on here to get an opinion, advice, thoughts, etc. on private matters--we get one side of the story and even then it is an abbreviated version. Invariably, someone offers an opinion that is unpopular or emphatic and immediately they are accused of being judgmental. Please explain to me how one can be decried as judgmental when they offer their opinion in a situation where one is asked for such opinion? How is it being judgmental to state that an action is against the standards of God? How is it being judgmental to offer an opinion on a thread that asks for opinions?

[Vort]

I'm so totally confused.

What is judgment? Are ya'll talking about "unrighteous" judgment? That is, assigning fault or condemnation for the individual? Or are you talking about making a decision or stand on words, behavior, actions, standards, etc.?

Obviously, the former is wrong. The latter is required of us each and every day.

In particular, I think of this board. We have dozens of people come on here to get an opinion, advice, thoughts, etc. on private matters--we get one side of the story and even then it is an abbreviated version. Invariably, someone offers an opinion that is unpopular or emphatic and immediately they are accused of being judgmental. Please explain to me how one can be decried as judgmental when they offer their opinion in a situation where one is asked for such opinion? How is it being judgmental to state that an action is against the standards of God? How is it being judgmental to offer an opinion on a thread that asks for opinions?

I am appalled at your judgmental attitude toward those who condemn judgmentalism. I condemn you in the strongest terms I can muster, without being judgmental.

[annewandering]

Judgmental is an attitude not an act. Of course we have to judge various things every day. Judgmental is self righteous and condemning not loving judgement.

[Backroads]

I'm so totally confused.

What is judgment? Are ya'll talking about "unrighteous" judgment? That is, assigning fault or condemnation for the individual? Or are you talking about making a decision or stand on words, behavior, actions, standards, etc.?

Obviously, the former is wrong. The latter is required of us each and every day.

In particular, I think of this board. We have dozens of people come on here to get an opinion, advice, thoughts, etc. on private matters--we get one side of the story and even then it is an abbreviated version. Invariably, someone offers an opinion that is unpopular or emphatic and immediately they are accused of being judgmental. Please explain to me how one can be decried as judgmental when they offer their opinion in a situation where one is asked for such opinion? How is it being judgmental to state that an action is against the standards of God? How is it being judgmental to offer an opinion on a thread that asks for opinions?

What is judgment? Are ya'll talking about "unrighteous" judgment? That is, assigning fault or condemnation for the individual? Or are you talking about making a decision or stand on words, behavior, actions, standards, etc.?

I'm getting the vibe we're using "judgmental" as a condemning attitude without any desire to hear another side of the story. I personally see nothing wrong about standing up for my own values. I figure if another person gets the right, I do, too.

In particular, I think of this board. We have dozens of people come on here to get an opinion, advice, thoughts, etc. on private matters--we get one side of the story and even then it is an abbreviated version. Invariably, someone offers an opinion that is unpopular or emphatic and immediately they are accused of being judgmental. Please explain to me how one can be decried as judgmental when they offer their opinion in a situation where one is asked for such opinion? How is it being judgmental to state that an action is against the standards of God? How is it being judgmental to offer an opinion on a thread that asks for opinions?

Because it's easy to call someone "judgmental!" as an insult. It stirs up bad feelings and gets everyone defensive. By calling another person judgmental, you are an innocent victim, a martyred saint.

Yes, if you come asking for an opinion, you can't be too picky with the answers. You can dislike certain replies, but you can't fault the responder for responding to you question.

I think there is a fine line here. There is nothing wrong with stating why you believe <insert questionable behavior> is wrong. It is wrong to say a sin completely and irrevocably defines a person.

But If I'm being super-defensive, I don't want your opinion, your beliefs, your reasoning. I want you to baby me and assure me I'm just fine. If you don't do that, social norms allow me to call you judgmental.

[Guest pogi]

To answer the question, "does being religious make you more judmental?"

The answer is no, it does not make anybody do anything or act in any way. That was Satan's plan remember.

Edited October 3, 2011 by pogi

[Vort]

Judgmental is an attitude not an act. Of course we have to judge various things every day. Judgmental is self righteous and condemning not loving judgement.

Then the answer is obvious. Based on the definition you give, one cannot simultaneously be "truly religious" and "judgmental".

For the record, I disagree with your definition of "judgmental".

[annewandering]

Then the answer is obvious. Based on the definition you give, one cannot simultaneously be "truly religious" and "judgmental".

For the record, I disagree with your definition of "judgmental".

I would be happy to hear your definition but please not from a dictionary.

[Vort]

I would be happy to hear your definition but please not from a dictionary.

"Judgmental" is the condition of rendering judgment.

In the common vernacular, it has come to mean pretty much what you suggest. But that doesn't mean I have to condone the usage. If someone wants to say "condemnatory" or "self-righteous", he can say "condemnatory" or "self-righteous".

[Guest mormonmusic]

Invariably, someone offers an opinion that is unpopular or emphatic and immediately they are accused of being judgmental. Please explain to me how one can be decried as judgmental when they offer their opinion in a situation where one is asked for such opinion? How is it being judgmental to state that an action is against the standards of God? How is it being judgmental to offer an opinion on a thread that asks for opinions?

I assume you mean "unempathetic"....Why is that judgmental?

Because some of those comments are based on people making assumptions about the person's motives half the time -- when there is no evidence that the assumption is warranted. I've seen that many times. It's happened to me a lot where a harsh judgment is thrown out after the person ASSUMED something that couldn't be further from the facts.

Or they impose the "standards of God" uniformly to everyone when there is something in the person's life experience that is a mitigating factor that may well be deserving of a not-so-harsh judgment. Or, due to limited life experience, or lack of imagination, they see only one angle of the problem. This monochromatic vision can be obvious to the person who may have experienced something like the triggering even that led to the "bad" decision -- and therefore sees the issue from multiple sides.

I admit, I have been guilty of it here. I was that way about a group of people who are somewhat disenfranchised in our religion a couple years ago. Someone kept coming back at me over and over again with respectful counterpoint, and as I listened and asked questions, I realized how wrong I'd been, how shallow my assessment, how stereotypical my judgment.

I also think the manner in which the judgment is delivered can be very harsh sometimes. So many times we get new people here and I cringe at the comments people make on their situations -- not always about the basic content, but the manner in which it's delivered. I often private message those new people with an empathetic word of comfort to counterbalance what was said to them -- particularly after they respond a bit shocked, as I would, at the unkindness or sarcasm with which the judgment was delivered.

Edited October 3, 2011 by mormonmusic