The literal gathering of the lost tribes

[cwald]

I've been thinking about this lately, and I know that it is part of the LDS church's creed that they believe in the literal gathering of the lost 10 tribes to Missouri - or at least it use to be part of their creed in Smith's time.

1. Does the church really believe in a literally gathering of the lost tribes? Or is that a doctrine that "I don't know if we teach it, I don't know that we emphasize." What does the church believe?

2. If they do believe in the lost 10 tribes, where are they now? And if they were here on this planet, wouldn't we know it by now? I mean the LDS church has converts in what, 100 different countries, so you would have expected to see some of these tribes declared in patriarchal blessings no?

Any thoughts?

[alexm8]

We are gathering the lost tribes, it is a big part of LDS theology. The mistaken part is that we need to gather them to Missouri, not sure where you are getting that from.

They live among the peoples of all nations are are being gathered to the Church. They are identified when they receive their Patriarchal Blessing and all 10 tribes have been represented for quite a while. It is not something that is advertised as PBs are rather sacred and meant for the individual, not the world.

[cwald]

I thought that Smith's taught that the 10 tribes would be gathered in Missouri? Hmmm?

Interesting about the PB thing.

I did not know that there are already people from all the 10 lost tribes in the LDS church. Do you know this for a fact, like do you know people with PB who are from a tribe other than Judah, Joseph or Dan, or is this just a Mormon myth?

[Backroads]

I do know people from different tribes, so that's not a Mormon myth... as for the literal gathering in Missouri... I have trouble believing that... anyone have any official quotes?

[cwald]

Maybe I'm confusing the gathering of the ten tribes in Missouri with the building of the New Jerusalem in Missouri?

[alexm8]

The most common are Ephriam (European descent), Manassah (Native/Latin American and Polynesia), Judah (Jewish). There have been Patriarchs throughout the world who have testified they have given blessings to Dan, Ashur, Benjamin, Levi (source Joseph of Egypt, Mark E. Petersen's (1981). I've heard since my youth in the 80's that all tribes have been found.

[Just_A_Guy]

Cwald, as I understand it the building of the New Jerusalem is major element of the "gathering of Israel" and elements of all ten lost tribes are probably to take part in it. However, it is also anticipated that there will be localized "gatherings" all over the earth. For a crash course in current Mormon thinking about the gathering of Israel, see here and here.

I, for one, don't think the "ten tribes" exist anywhere as organized, self-identifying bodies. Rather, I think there's been so much intermarrying and migration over the centuries that today pretty much everyone's got a little of everything in them. Before dying, Jacob the patriarch made specific pronouncements about the blessings inherited by different tribes of Israel; and so I think the tribal identification that occurs in the Mormon patriarchal blessing has more to do with identifying one's covenant relationship with God and Israel than about tracing out a particular (and exclusive) genealogical lineage.

I've met one a person who was told she was of Levite lineage, and as I recall I was in a class at BYU where someone declared himself to be of Issachar (!); but the vast majority of Mormons at this point will probably have patriarchal blessings declaring them to be through Ephraim--because, per our doctrine, the house of Ephraim was given primary responsibility for preaching the gospel during the latter stages of the earth's history.

[Madriglace]

A friend reported that her entire family (herself, husband adn children) were all from Ephrium except one sone was from Dan ... very interesting. The gathering started with the restoration of the gospel and continues full speed today. More and more you hear of the different tirbes being represented in the the blessings.

Growing up I was taught in church classes and seminary that in the last days the bulk of the lost tribes would come from the north and go to the temples and that they would have first access to the temples to complete their work. Fanstastic ... yes ... unbelievable ... for me no. Not sure how to verify but I am going forward on that assumption and doing my temple work for my family as fast as possible.

[cwald]

Very interesting. I've only heard of Ephraim, Mannassah and Dan.

I think you folks have answered my question about the tribes and the church members belief. Thank you.

[JudoMinja]

What about patriarchal blessings that specifically identify someone being "adopted" into a tribe? My mothers says that, while my fathers, mine, my sisters, and my older brothers all say we were "born" into a tribe.

Since the tribe identified in the PB is identifying the blessings/duties we will receive, why would one specifically point out that someone has been "adopted" into a particualr tribe?

[RescueMom]

A friend of mine is from Dan...I've read her PB. My mothers says she is from mixed tribes, although her lineage (from both parents) is from pioneer, first generation church stock. In fact I have my great great great great great grandfathers PB given by Hyrum Smith, says Ephraim.

I'm from Ephraim, even though my mothers PB says mixed and my father was Jewish descent.

I have heard most Muslims believe they are of the lineage Ishmeal or at least Mohammad was his descendant. Something like that, I am not 100% sure and this maybe entirely off base.

[TheMightyQuinn]

In my wife's PB she is described only as "a decendant of Abraham".

[Magen_Avot]

There are really two parts.

The first part of the 8th article of faith states: We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes.

So considering this, when we speak of the 'gathering' we are speaking of Isael. When we speak of restoring anything this may require putting in new parts or pieces to restore something to it's former self. So as the 10 tribes are restored some will be adopted in and others will be born in the lineage.

The tribe of Ephraim also has a lot of adopting in. There are some interesting cases and I'm sure I know very little, but my wife is of the "tribe of manasseh with the blood of Judah" and so is her sister. I know someone from the tribe of Dan. I'd love to see data on tribes and where they lived when given the lineage. Fathers also have the right to pronounce lineage but I think it's discouraged.

I've heard in years past that preference had been give for certain lineages to be pronounced but that may be a myth.

I was born into Ephraim but my sons were adopted into Ephraim (to their unliking I might add).

Anyway, if anyone really knows it'd be a good read.

[RescueMom]

Growing up I was taught in church classes and seminary that in the last days the bulk of the lost tribes would come from the north and go to the temples and that they would have first access to the temples to complete their work. Fanstastic ... yes ... unbelievable ... for me no. Not sure how to verify but I am going forward on that assumption and doing my temple work for my family as fast as possible.

I have to wonder if this isn't already being fulfilled. Ephraim is a lost tribe, we are in North America, and there are lots of temples with a lot of temple work going on...well all the tribes except Judah were lost....how many our temples are in the northern hemisphere.

Just a curious thought on my part.

[volgadon]

The most common are Ephriam (European descent), Manassah (Native/Latin American and Polynesia), Judah (Jewish).

Not that clear-cut. I'm Jewish, yet my tribe is Ephraim and my brother's is Dan. My wife is Ukrainian and is from Menasseh, as is a Greek friend of ours. My mother-in-law is from Gad and a good Russian friend of mine is Simeon.

[annewandering]

Is it my imagination or are there a lot more from other tribes than Ephraim lately? When I was a kid it seemed like almost all were from the one tribe.

[mirkwood]

Pretty clear cut evidence that they are gathered "somewhere" as a body, probably in the North.

Joseph Fielding Smith, The Signs of the Times, p. 185-186.

“First let us say something further about the restoration of the ten ‘lost tribes of Israel.’ Strange to say, notwithstanding all that has been written, there are many members of the Church who think that these ‘lost tribes’ were scattered among the nations and are now being gathered out and are found through all the stakes and branches of the Church. They reach this conclusion because the general opinion is that these tribes went into the North, and it is the northern countries from whence most of gathered Israel has been found. . . .Whether these tribes are in the north or not, I am not prepared to say. As I said before, they are ‘lost’ and until the Lord wishes it, they will not be found. All that I know about it is what the Lord has revealed, and He declares that they will come from the North. He has also made it very clear and definite that these lost people are separate and apart from the scattered Israelites now being gathered out. If this be not true, then the commission of Moses to the Prophet Joseph Smith is without meaning, wherein we read: ‘Moses appeared before us, and committed unto us the keys of the gathering of Israel from the four parts of the earth, and the leading of the ten tribes from the land of the north.’ The statement that the tribes are to be led from the north harmonizes perfectly with the words of Jeremiah (Jer. 16:14-15) and Section 133, verses 26 to 34.”

Joseph Fielding Smith, The Signs of the Times, p. 187-188.

“Another striking statement pointing to the fact that these people are now in a body in preparation for their return is the statement by the Prophet Joseph Smith at the conference held in Kirtland, June 3 to 6, 1831. At this conference the Prophet said: ‘John the Revelator was then among the ten tribes of Israel who had been led away by Shalmaneser, king of Assyria, to prepare them for their return from their long dispersion.’ The Savior also bore witness that these tribes were in a body like the Nephites and he would visit them. (3 Nephi 15:20 and 16:1-4.)”

[Traveler]

I believe that we have a rather good idea concerning the populations of the world. I believe we also have a good idea concerning what has happened to Israel. The prophet Ezekiel tells us that there will be two gatherings of Israel. This is specifically called the House of Joseph and the House of Judah. We also know that each will have their own records.

We are told by our prophets that the scripture specific to the House of Joseph is the Book of Mormon. We are given more information about the disbursement in chapter 15 of 3 Nephi. Here we learn that the reason for the disbursement and the reason we will not know of it is because of iniquity. The ancient type of this separation is the epoch of Joseph in Egypt.

With this understanding we may now move forward in understanding what will be in the “Last Days” when Israel is gathered. Moses becomes the type and shadow of how Israel is gathered in Egypt which is the type for the world and then is lead to Zion or the land of promise. Because these things are symbolic and because the same symbols are given as type in our temples - I suggest one of the best means to understanding these things comes by attending the “L-rd’s University” - which from Isaiah (chapter 2) is the temple.

I believe it is most important to understand that the gathering in the last days is both literal and spiritual and that this understanding is centered on the temple and temple covenants. I submit that the gathering is taking place and that those gathering are attending to the call by going to the temples. As much as it is believed that missionary work is directing the gathering - it is only an initial step. The gathering will be to temples.

In short - those that are not attending the temple are not yet part of the gathering of Israel in the Last-days. Consider the statement in scripture - "How beautiful upon the mountains (temples) are the feet of them that bring good tidings”.

The Traveler

[Snow]

I do know people from different tribes, so that's not a Mormon myth... as for the literal gathering in Missouri... I have trouble believing that... anyone have any official quotes?

And it shall be called the New Jerusalem, a bland of peace, a city of refuge, a place of safety for the saints of the Most High God;

And the glory of the Lord shall be there, and the terror of the Lord also shall be there, insomuch that the wicked will not come unto it, and it shall be called Zion.

And it shall come to pass among the wicked, that every man that will not take his sword against his neighbor must needs flee unto Zion for safety.

And there shall be gathered unto it out of every nation under heaven; and it shall be the only people that shall not be at war one with another.

And it shall be said among the wicked: Let us not go up to battle against Zion, for the inhabitants of Zion are terrible; wherefore we cannot stand.

And it shall come to pass that the righteous shall be gathered out from among all nations, and shall come to Zion, singing with songs of everlasting joy (Doctrine and Covenants 45:66-71).

[spamlds]

I'm surprised nobody answered the first question directly, regarding the literal gathering. The tenth article of faith says:

10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

There are five separate elements here that are not necessarily connected.

1. There will be a literal gathering of Israel.

2. The lost ten tribes will be restored.

3. The Zion known as the New Jerusalem will be built in the Americas.

4. Christ will reign personally on the earth.

5. The earth will be renewed and resume its Eden-like state.

It doesn't say that the literal gathering of Israel will be to the Holy Land only and it doesn't say that the ten tribes will gather only to the New Jerusalem. Missionary work is gathering Israel. In the patriarchal blessings since the beginning of this dispensation, there have been members of the lost tribes identified by revelation.

It is interesting to note that Joseph's name means "one who gathers." Joseph, the son of Jacob, had a wife whose name was Asenath. Her name meant "City of Refuge." Their marital union significantly points to the role of their posterity in the gathering of the elect to Zion, the city of refuge in the last days.

Edited November 11, 2011 by spamlds
fix typo

[volgadon]

It is interesting to note that Joseph's name means "one who gathers."

It means one who adds or increases. The Bible also includes a folk etymology of taking away, referiing to the Lord taking away Rachel's shame of being childless.

[volgadon]

Joseph, the son of Jacob, had a wife whose name was Asenath. Her name meant "City of Refuge." Their marital union significantly points to the role of their posterity in the gathering of the elect to Zion, the city of refuge in the last days.

In what language? Certainly not Hebrew, and the likely Egyptian etymology means "belongs to me/father/mother."

[Blackmarch]

I've been thinking about this lately, and I know that it is part of the LDS church's creed that they believe in the literal gathering of the lost 10 tribes to Missouri - or at least it use to be part of their creed in Smith's time.

1. Does the church really believe in a literally gathering of the lost tribes? Or is that a doctrine that "I don't know if we teach it, I don't know that we emphasize." What does the church believe?

yes, We believe in the gathering. earlier in church history it was gathering to the americas for new jerusalem/ zion. Currently with the membership ever growing it's currently to be part of the stake ward/ community you are part of or closest to. In the future there will be more movement or gathering to both the new jerusalem and the old jerusalem for when Christ is to come.

2. If they do believe in the lost 10 tribes, where are they now? And if they were here on this planet, wouldn't we know it by now? I mean the LDS church has converts in what, 100 different countries, so you would have expected to see some of these tribes declared in patriarchal blessings no?

Any thoughts?

aa. yes.

ab. We don't know exactly. However there has been study on this and there are some really good theories and evidence.

b. yes, and yes we do know that they exist on the planet.

c. Partially, Patriarchal blessing also designate which house one is brought into.

Another thing to remember is that technically there has been so much mixing by now that quite a significant portion of the world population is related to at least one or more tribe by blood.

Edited November 14, 2011 by Blackmarch

[lds2]

President Benson talked of Jesus' first appearance to us in the New Jerusalem, then he talked of His visit to the Jews in Jerusalem and then the appearance to all the world which will mean the "end of the world". From his talk...

"One appearance will be to the righteous Saints who have gathered to the New Jerusalem here in America. In this place of refuge they will be safe from the wrath of the Lord which will be poured out without measure on all nations."

"Another appearance of the Lord will be to the Jews. To these beleaguered sons of Judah, surrounded by hostile Gentile armies, who again threaten to overrun Jerusalem, the Savior—their Messiah—will set His feet on the Mount of Olives, “and it shall cleave in twain, and the earth shall tremble, and reel to and fro, and the heavens also shall shake.”

"Yet another appearance of Christ will be to the rest of the world. Here is His description of His coming: “The Lord shall be red in his apparel, and his garments like him that treadeth in the wine-vat."

"Prepare Yourself for the Great Day of the Lord"

Ezra Taft Benson, New Era, May 1982, 44–50

Prepare Yourself for the Great Day of the Lord - New Era May 1982 - new-era

In this talk he also says this to those who are now around 50 years of age...(he also said similar things in his talk "In His Steps" to the Young Adults in 1979 who are solidly in their 50s now.)

"Youth of Zion, do you realize you are living in the days of the fulfillment of these signs and wonders? You are among those who will see many of these prophecies fulfilled."

Edited November 14, 2011 by lds2

[AGStacker]

The 10 tribes are somewhere on this Earth on a part of the land that we cannot see. This is according to the earlier Apostles and Prophets. I think I know where but can't say.