Meat-free diet

[mikbone]

Bar-b-que at my house on the 4th!

You know at BYU campus you have a hard time finding a soda with caffeine as an ingredient.

But you can get pork, beef, or chicken at any time of day...

[Dove]

I would like to get to a place where I could be a little more involved with my meat--as in, raise/hunt my meat (I actually don't eat much meat, it just doesn't taste all that great to me). In general, we as a society are so far removed from where our food comes from. Many of us are so ready to abstain from meat, not kill an animal, ship organic veggies from the other side of the world, but we still don't necessarily "get it", understand what goes into raising that food. Which is more environmentally friendly, the man who goes out and shoots a couple of deer that can feed he and his wife for months, or the person that is wasting land, fuel, etc for organic vegetables that have wilted by the time they arrive?

Just saying I don't think vegetarianism, veganism, or omnivorism are as simple as we might like to think they are.

Hello, Backroads,

You have a good point. Interestingly enough, there is a community class in Salt Lake City that teaches one how to garden here year round. I'm planning to take it as soon as I lose some weight and get fit enough for gardening. (I weigh a great deal.)

I don't go for the elitist arrogance/highly priced food that can be associated with being vegetarian/vegan. There are many simple/economical/home done ways of eating this way. Eating a bag of beans/rice/legumes that has been soaked at home and cooked in the crock pot awhile is certainly inexpensive and goes a long way. I can't dispute, though, that "organic" food costs a bundle. The sad thing is, a lot of our produce comes from So. America, where the legal standard of chemically treating crops is a lot lower than the U.S. So, while there is still the fuel and land waste, the food is treated with stronger chemicals that the U.S. wouldn't allow. Also, while there is processed vegan food, one doesn't have to eat that to truly follow a vegan/vegetarian diet. Does anyone disagree with how important it is to eat plenty of vegetables and fruit? Yet, if I'm correct, it does say in the Doctrine and Covenants to eat these in their season~

[Dove]

Bar-b-que at my house on the 4th!

You know at BYU campus you have a hard time finding a soda with caffeine as an ingredient.

But you can get pork, beef, or chicken at any time of day...

Hi Mikbone;

I know there is a point to what you are pointing out a BYU. Sorry, I'm not quite sure what it is....

There's no doubt caffeine is a stimulant and unhealthy. But, so is pork, beef and chicken unhealthy if used unwisely and in excess, imo. As I said earlier, obesity in the US is becoming epidemic.....And the WofW does say to eat meat sparingly. We would all do better if we followed this principal.

I'll never forget being at BYU when I was a lot thinner and really striving to eat a healthy diet. I saw a woman praying over her Kentucky Fried Chicken. It struck me as so ironic that we usually pray over food to "nourish and strengthen our bodies," yet often the food we pray will do this for us is so unhealthy; high in fat, empty calories and processed to the point that all the vitamins and fiber are long gone. Now when I pray over my food, I always ask that I will use food wisely and sparingly...

[Dove]

PS, what is "paleo?"

[Vort]

PS, what is "paleo?"

"Paleo-" is a prefix meaning "old, ancient, original", as in "paleolithic" = "old stone age" (as opposed to "neolithic" = "new stone age"). In context, I assume "paleo" refers to those who adopt a diet that supposedly resembles that eaten by our ancestors ten thousand or more years ago. If I weren't so darn lazy, I would Google it and tell you more. But I *am* lazy, so there you go.

[Dove]

Hey, Vort;

Thank you for the info. I was surprised you were the one that answered, rather than the ones who used this term on this thread. Maybe they will, and explain what it means to them.

Gee, if I hadn't been so "lazy" myself I would have googled it and brought the meaning here for anyone else who didn't know. I'm chuckling as I write this~

Anyway, thanks again

Dove

[Vort]

Hey, Vort;

Thank you for the info. I was surprised you were the one that answered, rather than the ones who used this term on this thread. Maybe they will, and explain what it means to them.

Gee, if I hadn't been so "lazy" myself I would have googled it and brought the meaning here for anyone else who didn't know. I'm chuckling as I write this~

Anyway, thanks again

Dove

You bet. Turns out the etymology is even simpler than I thought: Paleo is short for Paleolithic diet.

[Guest]

The main idea of Paleo diet is to go back to the original natural energy sources for our bodies - like in the caveman days... or more nicely put - the hunting/gathering age. I'm not a "true" Paleo dieter - I'm Asian, gotta have rice.

What I take from the Paleo diet is the "eating in the season thereof" - un-preserved, minimally-processed. It's a little easier now that local markets are coming into fad again. My child's new Montessori School (Public School, interestingly), hold a farmer's market every other Wednesday. They have local farmers who grow fruits and vegetables locally and organically sell their stuff at the school.

The meat in the Paleo diet also follow Paleo principles. That is - the animal is fed food that is natural to its wild counterpart. So, beef is pastured and grass-fed, chemical-free and all that jazz. Interestingly, Paleo meat has more taste than the regular grocery meat. Fat from animal meat is fine to eat in moderation.

And, for the purposes of this thread, Paleo meat is "compassionate" to animals - cows are not penned in small cubbyholes all their lives eating corn that causes them to get sick so that they have to be given doses of anti-biotics as part of their routine and then dosed with hormones to get them bigger. Paleo beef comes from cows who go out to pasture, eating different types of grass that comes naturally to them. They are kept healthy by nature and nurture, not by meds. Chicken are free-range, etc. etc. So, it's like the old caveman days of hunting the cow from its natural habitat.

[QuoththeRaven]

Another big component of paleo is an absence of all grains and sugar.

I'm primal, which is like paleo but with dairy and more fat. It's been a great change for me. When I'm eating meat and fat and plants, I have a lot fewer hunger issues than when I made grains part of my diet.

[Dove]

Anatess;

Thanks much for explaining a little more in depth about the paleolithic diet....It's nice to know the movement for raising animals kindly seems to be growing.

Hi, QuoththeRaven;

Your diet sounds a lot like the Atkins' diet. One my step-dad has followed. I have big reservations and concerns about only eating meats and vegetable, given that I'm prone to vegetarianism/vegan-ism and what it says in the WofW. But; hey, if it works for you, who am I to say? LOL.....Just please be sure you're getting all the nutrients (fiber and vitamins) your body needs to be healthy. A lot of people like this diet. My own family, a lot who are very physically fit and healthy, are very leery of not eating animal protein in ones' diet....I'm not speaking for anyone else in how I choose to feed my body. Personally, I've been trying to go by what the Spirit tells me is good for me to eat....

Dove

[mikbone]

Hi Mikbone;

I know there is a point to what you are pointing out a BYU. Sorry, I'm not quite sure what it is....

There's no doubt caffeine is a stimulant and unhealthy. But, so is pork, beef and chicken unhealthy if used unwisely and in excess, imo. As I said earlier, obesity in the US is becoming epidemic.....And the WofW does say to eat meat sparingly. We would all do better if we followed this.

The point is that meat can be found in abundance at the church schools, the MTC, and even in temple cafeterias.

Although the WoW mentions to eat meat sparingly it has never been enforced. Adam ate meat. A part of the old testament practice of sacrifice included the priests consuming the meat of the animals. How many shepherds are mentioned in the scriptures? Shepherds tended livestock not only for milk but for the flesh of the animals...

I have B.S. in nutrition science. The USDA stock of poultry, beef, and pork are very safe. I personally prefer grass fed and hormone / antibiotic free beef, free range chicken, and my bacon thick cut and peppered!

I believe that the greatest threat to the health of Americans is corn. Go watch the documentary King Corn if you want a good scare. The vast majority of the corn we raise is actually indelible. It is caloric dense and nutritionally deficient (high fructose corn syrup...)

Judging by the waistline of Americans, Mormons included, we would be better off if the WoW recommended that we eat calories sparingly, and worked out every once in a while...

A vegan diet is devoid of vit B12. Vitamin B12 deficiency can potentially cause severe and irreversible damage, especially to the brain and nervous system.

Edited July 4, 2012 by mikbone

[Dove]

Wow, I'm so glad I asked you what your point was.

Thank you for the added information....I didn't realize the vegan diet was devoid of vit B12....I know for myself how important that vitamin has been for me in my health..I'm stunned to think that one can't find that vitamin in a vegetable or fruit....Seems to me I need to do a lot more research into diets before I choose to do one (i.e., vegetarianism, vegan-ism, etc.)

I've been dieting for about a week now with good results. However, I'm starting to feel a little weak and sick. As I reviewed what I've been eating the past week, sadly, it's really not that healthy. Even though I've been eating small amounts, I've been eating a lot of trash food. I'm praying that if I eat whole grains, vegetables, fruits, and perhaps protein in moderation, that I'll be able to lose weight without getting sick...There's no doubt good exercise is a major part of becoming physically fit.

If you would, could you give me some more ideas as to how to diet successfully without getting weak/sick?

Thanks much.

Dove

[mikbone]

Sure.

Avoid processed foods. Fresh fruits and vegetables are awesome. Eggs are great. Find foods you love and cook them yourself.

Use a food diary. It is the best way to really understand what you are eating.

I recommend Free Calorie Counter, Diet & Exercise Journal | MyFitnessPal.com. It is free, easy, intuitive, and fun. They have apps for the iPhone and android. I have found a simple heart rate monitor watch indispensable for tracking and motivating my workouts.

Diets don't work. Lifestyle changes do.

[Dravin]

A vegan diet is devoid of vit B12. Vitamin B12 deficiency can potentially cause severe and irreversible damage, especially to the brain and nervous system.

Is there something nutritionally insufficient with the B12 found in Nori? Though I suppose even if there isn't I don't expect most vegans are making sure they get their daily dose of Nori. Note I'm not arguing in favor of a vegan diet.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Dravin

[Ral Omicron]

In this one I believe it is important to fallow the word of wisdom. The science is important but the spiritual is just as important to our health. I have a friend that pointed some things out about the word of wisdom and then had me read it again. This is what I found. (I posted this in The Paleo Diet topic as well)

 

(D&C 89:11-12). There is a foot note for prudence that refers to temperance in the topical guide. In the next verse sparingly has a foot note that refers to temperance in the topical guide. This got me to look up the definition of sparingly and its history. I found reference to frugality as in uses with the mind of conservation.

 

(D&C 89:12-13). There is a comma that may be misplaced. If the comma is taken out it seems to reads differently, it has no fragment, and its a complete sentence.

 

(D&C 89:14-15) The semicolon in thees verses is showing that you are meant to read the verses together. Grain can be used to maintain life, "to be the staff of life", and best "only in times of famine".

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Wow, my diet (or the one I strive for) is Paleo!  I had no idea.  Honestly I thought Paleo was just another fad, so I hadn't bothered looking into it.  I will have to do that now, I might pick up some good tips!  

[Quin]

"Let's eat Gramma!"

"Let's eat, Gramma!"

Commas save lives.

Q

[Ral Omicron]

"Let's eat Gramma!"

"Let's eat, Gramma!"

Commas save lives.

Q

"As for saving lives,...

...let's not eat Gramma!"

...let's not, eat Gramma!"

 

Good observation but commas can kill too.

 

I'm not interested in getting into a debate on this but to show what I have found. There may be more evidence that the comma could have been added latter (New Cool Thang » The Case of a Comma, a Question on D&C 89:12-13). Kinda a crappy reference and you might find more questions then answers but I can't find a better one with the website that is still up. Hunt and you'll find it.

 

K, now lets broaden our prospective. I'm not get too much into the science on this because I thought others covered it pretty well. Meats have vitamins that your body needs. Look into it more if you need. As for me I don't believe we should cut meats but eating all meat can be bad too.

 

D&C 49 was given to provide revaluation about the beliefs of the Shakers. The shakers diet did not have meat and verses 18 and 19 answers this particular question about their diet.

 

The revelation in D&C 89 could have been supporting a balanced diet(knowing about the comma helps this make more sense). At the time of the revelation it may have been difficult to get fruits and vegetables during the winter but meat was most likely available all year round. So during the winter meat could have been eaten more often and during the harvest some may have not eaten any meat. Grains though could be stored for during the winter and If grains are prepared properly they could be consumed without casing digestive problems. To balance there diet they may have needed to eat grains during the winter, fruits and vegetables when they could be harvested, and meats all year round.

[Traveler]

The reason we have on and off seasons for hunting is so we don't deplete the supply. If we were allowed to hunt all year round the animals wouldn't be given a chance to procreate and raise their young.

 

There is some principles about hunting and nature that you have not taken into account.  Here are two examples:

 

Example one:  Most other animals, other than man that hunt, hunt year round and the young (even the young of predators) are a prime target.

 

Example two: In Utah more dear are killed by automobiles than by hunters - and drivers of automobiles kill year around.

[Traveler]

A meat free diet is not necessary for health reasons.  Those that argue meat free diet strictly for health reasons are misleading themselves and others concerning healthy diets.  Variety and moderation are better principles to be considered for a healthy diet.

 

My biggest concern considering variety and moderation in our current society would be the extremely unhealthy use of processed simple sugar in our diets.  Currently the average person in the USA consumes more sugar in 5 days than the average person consumed in a year - 100 years ago.

[mirkwood]

Everyone that I personally know who is on a no meat diet has developed significant health issues.  One is probably going to die due to this mentality.

[Guest]

Everyone that I personally know who is on a no meat diet has developed significant health issues.  One is probably going to die due to this mentality.

 

I work with a bunch of people from India, most of them are vegetarians, 2 of the vegetarians only eat food above the ground (no potatoes!).  All healthy, alive, alert, enthusiastic....

[Quin]

Everyone that I personally know who is on a no meat diet has developed significant health issues.  One is probably going to die due to this mentality.

I've known some really stupid (or willfully ignorant) vegetarians & vegans, too.

One only ate French fries & grilled cheese sandwiches.

Yeah.

Another couldn't figure out why their pets (kept on a vegan diet) kept dying.

Um. CARNIVORE.

We're omnivores... We can choose our diet to a certain degree.

Pick a living thing, and eat it. Plant based, animal based, whatever. As long as they've got the same nutrients in them, we're good.

Carnivores & Herbivores cannot.

They can only digest nutrients found in one source or another.

Or, to a degree, SOME carnivores can digest plant materials that have already been denatured in acid (why they go for the guts of herbivores).

But not all. And they can't live on acid cooked veg alone.

Much les on a diet a bear can (which is an omnivore, nor a carnivore!)

THATS why your dogs and cats keep dying!

But most of the vegetarians and vegans I know have been so most of their lives (20-80+ years, Buddhist & Hindu predominantly) and make sure to eat complete proteins (legume+grain, embryonic anything - eggs, nuts, etc.). Although they DO tend to get grumpy when I ask for the almond flavored tree fetus or baby bush. Can't imagine why.

For myself... I eat vegetarian, vegan, Midwest artery clogging, pescatarian, kosher. Halal, the whole shebang.

I do get odd looks when I order the vegetarian omelette with bacon, though.

Except in Israel.

Blew my mind to find bacon in Israel.

WTH? Just wrong. Twitch.

Q