Blackmarch Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 A group is exploring principles and designs on how to create a fully functional gun using a 3d printer. Afterwhich they wish to be able to make it a freely shared system... similar to how Mp3s freed up music...I have a bad feeling about this.You don't bring a 3D printer to a gun fight -- yet - Yahoo! News Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 More dangerous for the user, at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmarch Posted September 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 More dangerous for the user, at least.At first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 I have a bad feeling about this.I don't. This technology has been in the works for a long time, and is very exciting. I hear they've started to marketize stuff that will "print out" a house, wiring and plumbing already built into it.As the technology advances, so will the laws and regulations. Regulating the 'ink' that could be used to make bullets or hardened casings or what have you will keep up with the technology to do so.(Besides, once people can do this, why print a gun when you could print whatever you wanted to get with it and cut out the middleman?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 I guess I fail to see the big deal. The technology's cool, and I don't see how this is significantly more dangerous than any other gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 I guess I fail to see the big deal. The technology's cool, and I don't see how this is significantly more dangerous than any other gun.Its not about guns being more dangerous (other then the possibility of being poorly designed and blowing up in the users face) Its about guns being more accessible... Got a guy who is currently unable to legally carry? All he will need is a printer, or a friend with a printer or someone with a printer that he can intimate/bribe. Now admittedly a harden criminal is going to find a way to get a gun anyways... But there are other classes of people that would be scary to have holding gun. Like a kid, or like anyone that prints one up because they can but they don't bother to get trained on how to use it safely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annewandering Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 I guess I fail to see the big deal. The technology's cool, and I don't see how this is significantly more dangerous than any other gun.It would be the fact that you could get the gun with no regulation at all. They would be virtually untraceable if used in the commission of a crime. Anyone could get one including clearly mentally compromised individuals and yes I know they can now if they try but it just would make it easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlJibbs Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 I dont see this as a problem. If you have ill intentions to murder or rob someone you will get a gun. The strictest gun controls in place will not stop that. So, why spend upwards of 4K for the cheaper machines and then materials "printing" your own gun? You can purchase some amazing guns for 4K. Could someone potentially start an operation of making the weopons and then selling them out of their house? Possibly and that may be your point, but I dont think it would be any more dangerous. I do think however that the 3d printer tech is amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annewandering Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 The tech is clearly amazing. No doubt about that. Ok for 4k I can make a gun. Can I use the same 4k to make an Uzi? Or a mortor? Or ok lets go all the way. Can I use it to make a bomb? Where is the limit? Size? Materials? Can I use it to make a Paris fashion dress for just the price of the material? Are there limits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Ooh, I hope for that Paris dress technology! All right, I definitly get the accessibility (which is exactly what I find cool) but if this were to become a problem, wouldn't laws be developed to match everything? I'm still not 100% how this works, but clearly this will require materials. Couldn't those be limited through permits and whatnot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMGuy Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 50 years ago all you needed was a lathe and a lot of people could make a gun with basic machining skill set. Heck my 14 year old daughter is proficient enough with a mill and lathe to make one easily right now. This just brings it to the computer savy, the machinists of today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlJibbs Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 (edited) The tech is clearly amazing. No doubt about that.Ok for 4k I can make a gun. Can I use the same 4k to make an Uzi? Or a mortor? Or ok lets go all the way. Can I use it to make a bomb? Where is the limit? Size? Materials? Can I use it to make a Paris fashion dress for just the price of the material? Are there limits?Did you know that the 3d printer has been in use since the 1980's? This is not necessarily new tech. I think you need to place into perspective the cost and size of the printer. The 4K printer I am talking about appears to be the same size as a good sized desktop computer or smaller. The print size is hardly capable of making an Uzi let alone different componants out of metal? Even if it is $20,000 or $50,000, to get one large enough and advanced enough to make a mortar or a bomb out of plastic... you can do that without a fancy 3d printer. And you would still have to buy the material to prduce it and I doubt that you will be able to buy components for the bomb undetected just because you are using the printer. The printer itself would make a shell, it doesnt make any chemicals needed or electronic companants. You can make a shell out of wood for heavens sake. I dont see this as the new underground of gun making.It sounds like you are comparing it to the food replicator on Star Trek.... "Tea, Earl Grey, Hot". It doesnt do everything...yet. ( I say that light hearted of course, and not as a slam) :) Edited September 11, 2012 by EarlJibbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipplecutBuddha Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 Just a bit more needs to be done before guns can be printed. for instance, the gun that was printed only had the lower reciever printed, in other words, the part of the gun not under pressure during firing. As of right now the only metal reliable enough to make the barrel of the gun is steel or stainless steel. It will be some time before metals of any kind can be 'printed'. For instance there are some coneal-carry guns with titanium frames, yet the barrel still has to be steel. Right now there is no polymer or other synthetic material strong enough to withstand the firing pressures of today's firearms. Sure you could make a full gun out of printed ABS plastic, and maybe even fire it once. However even if the gun didn't blow up in your hand, it would immediately be damaged well beyond any ability to fire it again. The damage done to your target would also be quite lower than would be expected due to the loss of power. Essentially, this process of printing guns is fascinating and all, but if one is determined enough to obtain a gun that he/she is willing to buy the printer/software/etc., then they either are already knowledgeable enough to build a gun traditionally, or not knowledgeable enough to produce any useable weapon at all. The knowledgeable people will know what all needs to be printed in order to construct a gun. Those less knowledgeable will just look for the program that says 'gun'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) Okay, stop the presses (pun intended)! Think about it... Right now, I can just print myself some money out of my printer. Yep. I can print as many cashier's checks as I want and buy stuff from ebay with it. So, you're saying, WHAT? WHOA. WHAT? Then anybody could just print money! ANYBODY! Uh, no. Why not? Because a printed cashier's check is useless without the banking authority that goes with it. So sure, you wanna print yourself a gun and you're a criminal or a kid! Uh, no. I'm sure there are going to be tons of bureaucratic hoops that you have to jump through to print one. So, it would be just as if you walked into a gun shop or machinist and made one... except, now you don't have to leave your garage. And I'm sure the crooks are going to find every single way to go around the bureaucratic hoops... just like they do now. Nothing's changed really except... we're closer to the invention of the Replicator! I'm not as excited about that as the "Beam me up, Scotty!" machine... Edited September 12, 2012 by anatess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunkyTown Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 The tech is clearly amazing. No doubt about that.Ok for 4k I can make a gun. Can I use the same 4k to make an Uzi? Or a mortor? Or ok lets go all the way. Can I use it to make a bomb? Where is the limit? Size? Materials? Can I use it to make a Paris fashion dress for just the price of the material? Are there limits?I think you might misunderstand what a 3D printer is.A 3D printer takes a generic polymer and turns it in to a shape. That's it.A gun is just a generic shape with a tube and a lever at its base.You could not use it to print out a bomb because it isn't printing with gunpowder or weapons grade plutonium. You could use it to make a mortar, which is just a shallower tube that points upwards.It can print a gun, but it can't print bullets. It can print a car(When sufficiently advanced) but it can't print gasoline.As an aside, someone could go on the internet right now and learn how to turn a metal block into a .44 caliber gun for a whole lot less than 4K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applepansy Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 (Besides, once people can do this, why print a gun when you could print whatever you wanted to get with it and cut out the middleman?)Unless what you want it so to kill people, for whatever reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmarch Posted September 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) I don't. This technology has been in the works for a long time, and is very exciting. I hear they've started to marketize stuff that will "print out" a house, wiring and plumbing already built into it.that capability is still quite some time off now or at least for effective house building anyways, but i've seen the price for 3d printers come down pretty drastically still not cheap but they are starting to get affordable now.As the technology advances, so will the laws and regulations. Regulating the 'ink' that could be used to make bullets or hardened casings or what have you will keep up with the technology to do so. i'd imagine so, but generally it usually comes after stuff happens. Even then, it opens up more fronts that have to be checked. I'd wager that more than just the resource materials will have to be regulated but the actual printers themselves.Even if you could limit use of the resource material that would be considered weapons grade you could still use cheaper stuff to still assist in making decent weapons that are somewhat competent (IE better than normal zipguns and etc) while at the same time reducing the difficulty of doing such.(Besides, once people can do this, why print a gun when you could print whatever you wanted to get with it and cut out the middleman?)It won't get rid of the middle man; it notches up the proliferation (just having more guns around increases the percentage that are stolen or abused) and/or changes the bottlenecks in the case for organized arming... now instead of (or in addition to) having to rely on obtaining stolen arms either through black market deals or doing such directly, having to go to various gunshows that are more lax in their checks, or on "clean" individuals to obtain weapon purchases. In the case of the second point, i'd wager that it would be pretty much limited to organized crime where it would be used most (and its usage would depend on how risky or difficult it is to obtain better grade arms).Another point to consider with 3d guns is the capability of being able to modify the shell of the gun to appear however you want.I doubt that its use will increase much by standalone criminals (or soon to be criminals), at least after once regulation gets in place, unless by some weird and totally unforseen series of events that make firearms in the USA become a lot harder to obtain. Edited September 12, 2012 by Blackmarch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmarch Posted September 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 I think you might misunderstand what a 3D printer is.A 3D printer takes a generic polymer and turns it in to a shape. That's it.A gun is just a generic shape with a tube and a lever at its base.You could not use it to print out a bomb because it isn't printing with gunpowder or weapons grade plutonium. You could use it to make a mortar, which is just a shallower tube that points upwards.It can print a gun, but it can't print bullets. It can print a car(When sufficiently advanced) but it can't print gasoline.As an aside, someone could go on the internet right now and learn how to turn a metal block into a .44 caliber gun for a whole lot less than 4K.it can't print the gun powder but it can print the shells and the actual bullet. I have no idea to the strength of the material, but I doubt it's as good as the stuff that is used to make weapons.However, historically to make up for weaker material you compensate by using more material, and then binding that material with something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmarch Posted September 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 Okay, stop the presses (pun intended)!Think about it... Right now, I can just print myself some money out of my printer. Yep. I can print as many cashier's checks as I want and buy stuff from ebay with it. So, you're saying, WHAT? WHOA. WHAT? Then anybody could just print money! ANYBODY! Uh, no. Why not? Because a printed cashier's check is useless without the banking authority that goes with it.So sure, you wanna print yourself a gun and you're a criminal or a kid! Uh, no. I'm sure there are going to be tons of bureaucratic hoops that you have to jump through to print one. So, it would be just as if you walked into a gun shop or machinist and made one... except, now you don't have to leave your garage. And I'm sure the crooks are going to find every single way to go around the bureaucratic hoops... just like they do now.Nothing's changed really except... we're closer to the invention of the Replicator!I'm not as excited about that as the "Beam me up, Scotty!" machine...actually quite a few people do print money illegally. that has been an "arms race" for quite some time...It's what has driven the US treasury money presses to become very sophisticated. Right now i think the US treasury has the upper hand, but they have to keep finding new techniques to foil counterfitters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 So what is the solution to this problem? I still fail to see how this is a significant increase in danger, and we have a bunch of people complaining about it and refusing to make proactive laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmarch Posted September 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 So what is the solution to this problem? I still fail to see how this is a significant increase in danger, and we have a bunch of people complaining about it and refusing to make proactive laws.I have no idea how significant it will be- it adds more danger to the situation in the sense its another step towards increasing the rate that weapons will be proliferating. How much so will depend on quite a few factors. but if i were a leader in a gang or some other organized group I'd be totally researching this because at the moment there is not a lot of focus on it. the potential for getting things under various radars and still have something that does its job is big.Solutionwise, for shorterm legal solution the best i can think of is regulating printers in a manner similar or beetter than firearms to slow or reduce the impact.longterm solutions, the best would be anti-gang/organized crime efforts, especially on the social level. Another solution that would be good is removing or reducing the image of the gun in the general psyche of people.. and i have no idea how to achieve that one against how ingrained and addicted we are to our medias.Another componenet would also be implementing a system that promotes mutual respect between people. Currently i think churches have the best shot for that in our society.A system that promotes better parenting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 I have no real problem of gun creation--I am a firm believer of the people kill people adage. I prefer the anti-crazy violence tactic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 actually quite a few people do print money illegally. that has been an "arms race" for quite some time...It's what has driven the US treasury money presses to become very sophisticated. Right now i think the US treasury has the upper hand, but they have to keep finding new techniques to foil counterfitters.That's why I mentioned it. It's one of the biggest scams infiltrating ebay today - people buying stuff with cashier's checks printed right off their home printer... of course, they're all fake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 That's why I mentioned it. It's one of the biggest scams infiltrating ebay today - people buying stuff with cashier's checks printed right off their home printer... of course, they're all fake!I went through a short period where my hobby was baiting internet scammers. I got quite good at identifying fake checks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmarch Posted September 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 i went through a short period where my hobby was baiting internet scammers. I got quite good at identifying fake checks. lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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