Before I strangle the onslaught of Scouting volunteers with the same stubborn misunderstanding

[Backroads]

The BSA council I work in has a high percentage of LDS units.

My job involves a great deal of obnoxious paperwork concerning these LDS units. It's a sad fact of life, but there you go.

Every now and then, someone can't understand why there must be paperwork to transfer a boy from Boy Scouts to Varsity when that boy isn't moving wards. We have our standard explanations that work more often than not.

But this week has been something else. Every day this week I have had at least three people yell at me over this. They don't care about the differences between packs and troops and varsity. They tell me that their scouting program functions as one big group with no differences between the groups.

I hate being yelled at (does anyone love it?) and the usual explanations just aren't working because no one seems to want to hear them and I don't know where these people are coming from.

So... looking for customer service advice here. Not necessarily any explanation suggestions, but just ways on keeping my cool before I lose it. I have a much nicer co-worker who has been handling the complaints to her by filling out all the paperwork for these Scoutmasters, but I refuse to do that.

Edited September 12, 2012 by Backroads

[Dravin]

Depends exactly what your policy is, but nothing productive is happening if you're being yelled at, "Sir, I can't help you if you're yelling. You need to stop yelling or this conversation is over until you can."

[Backroads]

And yet, short of filling out the applications for them in order to move these boys (which I do not believe is my job--and according to policy it isn't and also is not ethical as it pertains to potential fake numbers), there really isn't anything I can do. But yeah, the standard "I can't help you if you're yelling" might get them to listen more rationally.

[Delanie]

Is the only reason you won't fill out the applications is because you all think it's unethical? I'm sure people would be happy to sign as leaders for them. That should solve problems. If it solves the problem of moving the boys and makes people happy, why not do it? Being a Scout leader is a huge job. It's hard to collect applications from everybody and it's frustrating to arrive at the office to find out you missed stuff or have more to do. I hate to say it, but I have arrived at the office in a bad temper (which I know I shouldn't do) and not being able to be cut a break doesn't help. These people are probably overworked in their callings and the rest of their lives and honestly don't have time to fill out paperwork for the same boy every two years--times that for twenty boys. It's constant work. And I understand the tendency to put all the Scouting programs together (my ward downsized to just a pack and a troop) but that's how it works in LDS scouting and you probably won't get people to change the way they think. I know this probably sounds harsh, but it might be best for everyone if you just put on a smile and did the work for them every now and then. Tell them the paperwork is necessary, fill in all the information (I know you have access) and see if you can't get the leader to sign for them.

[Dravin]

And yet, short of filling out the applications for them in order to move these boys (which I do not believe is my job--and according to policy it isn't and also is not ethical as it pertains to potential fake numbers), there really isn't anything I can do. But yeah, the standard "I can't help you if you're yelling" might get them to listen more rationally.

Then there isn't anything you can do :shrug:. It sucks when people don't understand that a lack of planning on their part doesn't make something your job or your emergency, so you have my sympathy.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Dravin

[mirkwood]

I hate being yelled at (does anyone love it?)

I usually get to yell back. But I understand your frustration (at least I usually get to yell back, or at least raise my voice.)

[beefche]

Is the only reason you won't fill out the applications is because you all think it's unethical? I'm sure people would be happy to sign as leaders for them. That should solve problems. If it solves the problem of moving the boys and makes people happy, why not do it? Being a Scout leader is a huge job. It's hard to collect applications from everybody and it's frustrating to arrive at the office to find out you missed stuff or have more to do. I hate to say it, but I have arrived at the office in a bad temper (which I know I shouldn't do) and not being able to be cut a break doesn't help. These people are probably overworked in their callings and the rest of their lives and honestly don't have time to fill out paperwork for the same boy every two years--times that for twenty boys. It's constant work. And I understand the tendency to put all the Scouting programs together (my ward downsized to just a pack and a troop) but that's how it works in LDS scouting and you probably won't get people to change the way they think. I know this probably sounds harsh, but it might be best for everyone if you just put on a smile and did the work for them every now and then. Tell them the paperwork is necessary, fill in all the information (I know you have access) and see if you can't get the leader to sign for them.

Are you actually telling her to go against her own ethics? You actually want her to forego her own integrity to molly coddle a bunch of adults who refuse to fill out necessary paperwork? Please tell me I am misunderstanding you.

[slamjet]

"Madam, Sir, you raising your voice at me does not inspire me to help nor go out of my way for you."

I worked at one clinic where the owner would get incensed if any patient treated her with aplomb and praise, but treated her office staff like dirt. I could count on her telling them to stop, or D/C'ng them. What you need is a manager who will tell these people to either get it together and get the forms filled out, or don't to it and see how far they get that way.

But then, I'm not nice.

[Dravin]

"Madam, Sir, you raising your voice at me does not inspire me to help nor go out of my way for you."

I worked at one clinic where the owner would get incensed if any patient treated her with aplomb and praise, but treated her office staff like dirt. I could count on her telling them to stop, or D/C'ng them. What you need is a manager who will tell these people to either get it together and get the forms filled out, or don't to it and see how far they get that way.

But then, I'm not nice.

Alternatively if you know that management has your back you can tell them yourself. A blank look after explaining the situation can do wonders too, what I like to call the, "You're still here?" look. It could garner complaints though, so make sure that management does in fact have your back.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Dravin

[annewandering]

But then, I'm not nice.

I can not believe that.

[Wingnut]

Are you actually telling her to go against her own ethics? You actually want her to forego her own integrity to molly coddle a bunch of adults who refuse to fill out necessary paperwork? Please tell me I am misunderstanding you.

And go against the policies of the BSA simply because LDS people don't feel like following them? LDS aren't the only ones with busy lives...

[slamjet]

I know I use the "F" word - Fraud - as in , I'm sorry but that's fraud and I will not do it.

[slamjet]

I can not believe that.

Oh my, you're so cute sometimes

[Dravin]

I know I use the "F" word - Fraud - as in , I'm sorry but that's fraud and I will not do it.

What always got me is the people who would hear you say something like that or, "That is against Federal law." and stand there waiting for you to do what ever it is that they asked of you. As if you were just letting them know in case they were curious but you'll get right on it regardless.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Dravin

[SanctitasDeo]

I have always enjoyed telling people that what they want is against Federal law. It just sounds so...serious. But yeah, I've seen that, too.

[NeuroTypical]

If all else fails, go to notalwaysright.com and read a few stories. You'll either find yourself in good company, or happy you don't have it so bad.

[NightSG]

Depends exactly what your policy is, but nothing productive is happening if you're being yelled at, "Sir, I can't help you if you're yelling. You need to stop yelling or this conversation is over until you can."

My favorite when I was in customer service was "sir, there are two people on this planet who care about your problem, and you're alienating the other one right now."

[pam]

And yet, short of filling out the applications for them in order to move these boys (which I do not believe is my job--and according to policy it isn't and also is not ethical as it pertains to potential fake numbers), there really isn't anything I can do. But yeah, the standard "I can't help you if you're yelling" might get them to listen more rationally.

We use the words "please keep the conversation professional" when the customers start yelling. Sometimes that works..sometimes it doesn't. But we warn that if it doesn't stop, we will disconnect the call.

[skippy740]

The BSA council I work in has a high percentage of LDS units.

My job involves a great deal of obnoxious paperwork concerning these LDS units. It's a sad fact of life, but there you go.

Every now and then, someone can't understand why there must be paperwork to transfer a boy from Boy Scouts to Varsity when that boy isn't moving wards. We have our standard explanations that work more often than not.

But this week has been something else. Every day this week I have had at least three people yell at me over this. They don't care about the differences between packs and troops and varsity. They tell me that their scouting program functions as one big group with no differences between the groups.

I hate being yelled at (does anyone love it?) and the usual explanations just aren't working because no one seems to want to hear them and I don't know where these people are coming from.

So... looking for customer service advice here. Not necessarily any explanation suggestions, but just ways on keeping my cool before I lose it. I have a much nicer co-worker who has been handling the complaints to her by filling out all the paperwork for these Scoutmasters, but I refuse to do that.

Backroads, you need help. And I'm going to give it to you. I hope you'll thank me for it later.

You need a method and a way to turn a bad situation into one where you can both have a greater understanding and no longer be adversarial against each other.

We can't count on the customer to do it... so we'll have to do it.

First - the person who raises their voice in anger and frustration is the loser. We must discipline the loser and afterwards show forth an increase of love (understanding) towards that person. (Where have I heard that before?)

How?

1) After a person raises their voice at you, stop. Look at them in the eye. No contention in your face. Simply examine their face as though you're trying to get any additional facial cues in order to fully understand. Even if they're on the phone, you can still pause enough for both of you to breathe. Take a few seconds to do this. You might even wait to respond until they ask "are you still there?"

2) Respond in a very calm tone and offer a statement of understanding. "I know... that this can be frustrating... that sometimes the LDS ways... and the BSA ways... don't always work well... especially when it comes to paperwork? Right? I understand... so let me help you make it easier, okay?"

Now you should have confirmation of what you both need to do, composed yourselves and you will lead them to do exactly what they need to do... because you understand.

Treat each person as an individual, instead of trying to cure the same problem for a large group of people. When you think in terms of 'herds', you're going to lose patience and wonder who the next person will be with the same problem. It's as though everyone who has the same problem is going to come to you and you are thinking of how to deal with it... as a procedural problem.

Take time to breathe and work with each individual with their individual problems. You may know how to solve problems for everybody and want to write a book on how to do it (so they don't bother you again, right?). Nope. Can't do that. Just take it one person at a time, one-on-one, one-by-one. Work with the person to solve the problem, and you might even start to enjoy it? :)

[Backroads]

And go against the policies of the BSA simply because LDS people don't feel like following them? LDS aren't the only ones with busy lives...

And that's the thing.

Technically, we could get away with filling out everything and just having the right person sign it--though that does fall in the gray area between fraud and customer service. My co-worker who does fill out the paperwork does use the argument that the LDS volunteers do have a lot on their plates--but I fail to see how it is any more than the non-LDS volunteers.

Delanie, I really do sympathize with those who travel clear out of their ways only to go back, but there's only so much I can do.

Skippy, thanks for the specifics. Lately I do feel more in control when a volunteer I CAN help starts yelling at me, but it's hard in cases like these where I have no wiggle room.

[john doe]

I think the first thing to do when people start yelling at you is to remember that they are not yelling at you personally, they are yelling at a system that they don't understand. It's rarely personal, even if they make personal comments directed toward you. And even if they make personal comments directed at you, it's best just to ignore those comments. The best way to deal with these kinds of people is to calmly explain what they need to do to rectify the situation, and put the responsibility for their problems back on them. If they want to be abusive, then you calmly tell them that you won't tolerate their abuse, and if they do it again you will hang up.

[beefche]

Be calm? Whatever....call them a cotton headed ninny muggins and let them stew on that one.

[Delanie]

If her co-worker is able to fill out applications without getting in trouble, clearly the ethics are in a gray area.

Non-LDS scout volunteers are there because they want to be. LDS scouters are there because they were called to it. It was not their choice. I know we should have a better attitude about it, but it can be a very time-consuming calling we did not plan on having.

Backroads may have some very good explanations, but if the volunteers choose not to listen the result is an angry and frustrated person on the phone or in the office. They may not understand or want to understand why they have to do the paperwork, and they obviously have no intention of listening. The kindest and simplest thing to do is to do what needs to get done and let the volunteer worry about the situation on his own time.

[Wingnut]

If her co-worker is able to fill out applications without getting in trouble, clearly the ethics are in a gray area.

Let's be clear: the co-worker's ethics are gray -- Backroads' ethics are not gray.

Non-LDS scout volunteers are there because they want to be. LDS scouters are there because they were called to it. It was not their choice. I know we should have a better attitude about it, but it can be a very time-consuming calling we did not plan on having.

Which is exactly why Scouting in the Church is broken.

Backroads may have some very good explanations, but if the volunteers choose not to listen the result is an angry and frustrated person on the phone or in the office. They may not understand or want to understand why they have to do the paperwork, and they obviously have no intention of listening. The kindest and simplest thing to do is to do what needs to get done and let the volunteer worry about the situation on his own time.

This is the very definition of enabling. This is why kids can't function when they grow up: because their parents have always done everything for them.

[skippy740]

Non-LDS scout volunteers are there because they want to be. LDS scouters are there because they were called to it. It was not their choice. I know we should have a better attitude about it, but it can be a very time-consuming calling we did not plan on having.

It is possible to refuse a calling in the church. It's not exactly in our culture, but you have the choice to accept or reject any calling.

Of course, I find the biggest farce about LDS scouting is the way they call you (or at least the way they called me) is that "it's only an hour a week!"