carlimac Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 (edited) France set to ban words 'mother' and 'father' on official documents under plans to legalize gay marriage | Fox NewsThis is one of the more bizarre effects I've heard of. Could it be possible in the US?*I just realized this might fit better in the "Current Events" forum. If anyone wants to change it that's fine by me. Edited September 25, 2012 by carlimac * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 France set to ban words 'mother' and 'father' on official documents under plans to legalize gay marriage | Fox NewsThis is one of the more bizarre effects I've heard of. Could it be possible in the US?Wow. That's an overreaction. I hope the US never gets that ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Unfortunately, I must point out that "ridiculous" is the wrong word. The correct word is "obvious". And yes, I expect the US to follow France's brave lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anddenex Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Unfortunately, I must point out that "ridiculous" is the wrong word. The correct word is "obvious". And yes, I expect the US to follow France's brave lead.I second Vort's response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravin Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 (edited) Unfortunately, I must point out that "ridiculous" is the wrong word. The correct word is "obvious". And yes, I expect the US to follow France's brave lead.Indeed. While I can get objection to the proposed legal situation that is leading to these changes, the changes are an obvious solution to what the situation will be (particularly with the law). I suppose one can use a bunch of ors in the laws and on the forms, or possibly find an alternative like legal guardian but it makes sense that some changes are going to need to be made in the legal code and forms.The change in the civil marriage ceremony (presumably as performed by agents of the state) is weird though as it seems like it wouldn't be to bad to change up wording as appropriate. Actually... why are they mentioning the parents during the ceremony? Or does the Telegraph consider the forms to be part of the marriage ceremony? Edited September 26, 2012 by Dravin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 I'm completely with Dravin on this. One, I don't understand why parents are mentioned during marriage vows at all. Otherwise, yeah -- these changes need to be made. It's not at all an overreaction, but rather completely appropriate. This isn't a ban of the words altogether, but a change of vocabulary on legal documents in order to accommodate a proposed law. It doesn't make any sense to have "father" and "mother" listed on paperwork being filled out by a married lesbian couple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 To clarify: I do think it's ridiculous, despite what I wrote, and I am sorry that there is any possible need or desire to remove "Father" and "Mother" from official forms. People have fathers and mothers, and listing those people seems a natural thing to do in an important government record such as a marriage record. That we would have "alternative families" in society as substitutes, not just placeholders, for the so-called "nuclear" family is horrible and disheartening. And I certainly do expect the US to follow suit. I recently filled out a form for my child that had two slots for "Parent" -- not "Father" and "Mother", but "Parent" and "Parent". I think it is sickening. I do not remember what form it was. Maybe it was not a government-sponsored form. But I have little doubt that's on its way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connie Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Unfortunately, I must point out that "ridiculous" is the wrong word. The correct word is "obvious". And yes, I expect the US to follow France's brave lead.Maybe "ridiculously obvious".... or perhaps even better "obviously ridiculous." Vort 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applepansy Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 I see this as another move away from the core of society, which happens to be the family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlimac Posted September 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 So now "parents" can be not only any number of combinations of human beings but they can also be genderless. I mean isn't gender relative anyway? So a lesbian couple, let's say Jo and Frankie, sign their names on the birth certificate for an adopted child. Anyone looking at the paper won't know if the "parents" are male/female, male/male, or female/female. And if the "parents" come to collect the form in person, their gender still may not be identifiable. So really, gender can be totally neutral and anonymous if so desired. Who needs gender anyway? Sounds like a plan! A plan hatched by Satan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 This is already happening guys. Haven't you been filling out School Forms for your kids? There's no more Mother or Father in those forms. It's just Parent/Legal Guardian 1, Parent/Legal Guardian 2. And this is not even because of same gender parents. It's because your biological father may not be your "parent". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 I got married in Massachusetts. When we went to apply for the marriage license, we were instructed to decide who was Party A, and who was Party B. They had to remove the terms "husband" and "wife" from the license because it didn't make sense in the case of same sex marriage. I didn't have a problem with it then, and I don't have a problem with gender neutral terms on forms now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlimac Posted September 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Flaxen cord leading us gently down... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anddenex Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 If you have ever done genealogy work, then you know quite well how nice it is when you come across a marriage record that has both parents (i.e. "Father" and "Mother") mentioned. Yes, very appropriate for the "Mother" and "Father" to be recognized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmarch Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 France set to ban words 'mother' and 'father' on official documents under plans to legalize gay marriage | Fox NewsThis is one of the more bizarre effects I've heard of. Could it be possible in the US?*I just realized this might fit better in the "Current Events" forum. If anyone wants to change it that's fine by me.absolutely its possible. There is no limits to thickheadedness.Quite frankly i think the Gov would be better off getting out of the marriage business altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Remember, same-sex marriage proponents have assured us that theirs is a quest for equal rights only. There will be absolutely no infringements or changes on our lives. We've had it shouted at us angrily - we're idiots for being afraid that two guys getting married will have any impact on our lives at all. Up next, 'hate-crime' similar legilsation that attaches additional penalties for laws broken with excessive masculinity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 absolutely its possible. There is no limits to thickheadedness.Quite frankly i think the Gov would be better off getting out of the marriage business altogether.The government is in the business of promoting and enhancing society. The foundation of society is the heterosexual relationship, as typified and strengthened by marriage. Do away with marriage, either through recognizing pretty much anything as a marriage or, equivalently, not recognizing anything as marriage, and you very greatly weaken the very foundation of society.Our government cannot "[get] out of the marriage business altogether" if we want our society to continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlimac Posted September 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 This is already happening guys. Haven't you been filling out School Forms for your kids? There's no more Mother or Father in those forms. It's just Parent/Legal Guardian 1, Parent/Legal Guardian 2. And this is not even because of same gender parents. It's because your biological father may not be your "parent".Not at our schools. Still Mom and Dad on the forms with another line for legal guardian. Call us old fashioned here in Idaho. I hope it stays that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Not at our schools. Still Mom and Dad on the forms with another line for legal guardian. Call us old fashioned here in Idaho. I hope it stays that way.I need to move to Idaho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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