Loaning a temple recommend?

[Backroads]

Last year, a close friend of the family was married in the temple. Did not attend the sealing, passed on my congratulations, never thought much about it. This morning I found out that another close friend--who happens to be a staunch life-long Catholic--had attended the sealing. The family had borrowed a friend's temple recommend to get her into the temple.

Now, this Catholic woman is extremely close to the bride, and I can appreciate wanting this woman to be there at this special occasion, but this strikes me as completely dishonest.

I realize it's none of my business and I'm trying not to waste too much thought on it, but I'm afraid I've lost a lot of respect for the people in question. I believe I'm also more bothered by the concept in general than this individual incident.

Now I'm wondering about just how common this is.

[Dravin]

Now, this Catholic woman is extremely close to the bride, and I can appreciate wanting this woman to be there at this special occasion, but this strikes me as completely dishonest.

It strikes me as dishonest as well, both in the case of the person providing the recommend to be borrowed and the person actually borrowing the recommend.

Now I'm wondering about just how common this is.

It's not really something you'll be able to get reliable numbers about. The best you'll get is some anecdotes from the members of the board but that won't tell you how prevalent it is.

[BrendaM]

Just reading this put my stomach in knots. I wonder how common this is too! Wow, really wrong!

[applepansy]

I would lose respect for them too.

[Backroads]

I would lose respect for them too.

What's really sad is this is one of quite a few respect-losing incidents from this family in the past few years. Maybe I shouldn't be surprised. I'm not nearly as close to the family as I once was... can't speak for the rest of my family.

[BrendaM]

I'm thinking if their Bishop knew about this, there should be some kind of disciplinary action?

[BrendaM]

I almost feel sorry for them. Just knowing the Lord could see me giving someone not worthy to enter the Temple a Temple Recommend!

I'd be afraid lightning would strike me.

[MorningStar]

That's horrible.

[Backroads]

I almost feel sorry for them. Just knowing the Lord could see me giving someone not worthy to enter the Temple a Temple Recommend!

I'd be afraid lightning would strike me.

That's how I feel. I haven't seen the Catholic woman for years (she lives on the other side of the country, but I do remember quite liking her) but I imagine she's probably a very nice woman who is a wonderful Christian--but by nature of not having gone the correct path to getting a temple recommend is therefore "not worthy".

My biggest thought here is truly "mocking God" and putting personal relationships before covenants and integrity.

[NeuroTypical]

This falls under "here, let me stop working on my sins so I can talk to you about yours". Of course it was dishonest and wrong. Judging actions are easy - assuming you have your facts straight. But a few questions to consider before judging the people involved:

Think of stewardships - do you have any in this matter? You cannot judge a righteous judgement without stewardship to do so.

You've now discovered something about someone. You say "the family", but do you know all the details? Did they hold a family counsel? Is there shared guilt by inaction? Are they weak and easily manipulated? Or are they weak in understanding or keeping covenants? Were they intentionally mocking God? You can't judge a righteous judgement if you don't have all the facts - and insight into their motivations and contents of their heart are necessary.

What do you do? I dunno. You say 'close friend' - maybe you ask them what they were thinking? Show up with a big smile and say "I've given into temptation on a lot of stuff over my life, but I've gotta admit that smuggling a Catholic into the temple hasn't really hit my radar until now. Tell me all about it!"

If you find out, then you'll know a bit more about how someone else struggles with doing the right thing. Maybe it would give you some ideas on how to be their friend in more useful ways.

[Backroads]

Loudmouth_Mormon, you are absolutely right. I really am trying not to worry myself over it, but I don't know how to maintain the same level of respect for these people and I also don't think it's my place to find out more--I just can't bring myself to starting something with "Why did you sneak Ms. Catholic into the temple? What was your thought process there?"

Yet here I am shamefully ranting about it online.

As for being friends with them... like I said, I'm no longer the same friend I used to be with most of them--and not because of this incident, but because they have personally cheated me. My husband actually wants nothing to do with them. I do call them a friend of the family because the relationship goes back before my birth and it's hard to fully separate myself from that.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Backroads

[Vort]

Unbelievable. Simply unbelievable. Everyone involved should be ashamed of themselves, and those who "loaned out" their temple recommend should, in my judgment, be immediately relieved of the burden of their sacred covenants.

[LittleWyvern]

I'm curious what could be done to stop this sort of thing from happening short of having a picture on your temple recommend (which would be weird) or having the temple recommend desk at the temple display your lds.org picture as you check in, and force everybody who has a temple recommend to have an lds.org picture (which would be... weirder). Maybe this is better left as a honor system sort of thing?

[beefche]

The Catholic woman isn't, in my opinion. She is not under any covenants and doesn't understand the nature of the recommend and temple.

The LDS members, on the other hand....

[Vort]

The Catholic woman isn't, in my opinion. She is not under any covenants and doesn't understand the nature of the recommend and temple.

She understands the nature of telling the truth and of not misrepresenting herself. She is not guilty of the gross sins of the "friend" who "loaned" her the temple recommend, but her actions are despicable and disgusting, just using her own moral framework.

[Backroads]

I'm curious what could be done to stop this sort of thing from happening short of having a picture on your temple recommend (which would be weird) or having the temple recommend desk at the temple display your lds.org picture as you check in, and force everybody who has a temple recommend to have an lds.org picture (which would be... weirder). Maybe this is better left as a honor system sort of thing?

I'd prefer to keep it as it is, with the honor system. I imagine most temple recommend holders understand the basics of what is okay and what is not. I hate the idea of automatically mistrusting everyone who steps into the temple.

[slamjet]

Well now, doesn't that show just how seriously they take their temple marriage and covenants.

[estradling75]

I'm curious what could be done to stop this sort of thing from happening short of having a picture on your temple recommend (which would be weird) or having the temple recommend desk at the temple display your lds.org picture as you check in, and force everybody who has a temple recommend to have an lds.org picture (which would be... weirder). Maybe this is better left as a honor system sort of thing?

You could do temple recommend and a Picture ID (like a drivers license)

[Backroads]

She understands the nature of telling the truth and of not misrepresenting herself. She is not guilty of the gross sins of the "friend" who "loaned" her the temple recommend, but her actions are despicable and disgusting, just using her own moral framework.

True. I'm sure Catholics get "don't use another person's ID" as much as anyone else.

[rameumptom]

If I were you, I would mention it to the bishop, so he can look into the incident. The person lending the recommend needs to lose that recommend for at least a year, to ensure it does not happen again.

If members do not step up as witnesses, then this kind of thing will only become more common and ugly.

[Traveler]

Last year, a close friend of the family was married in the temple. Did not attend the sealing, passed on my congratulations, never thought much about it. This morning I found out that another close friend--who happens to be a staunch life-long Catholic--had attended the sealing. The family had borrowed a friend's temple recommend to get her into the temple.

Now, this Catholic woman is extremely close to the bride, and I can appreciate wanting this woman to be there at this special occasion, but this strikes me as completely dishonest.

I realize it's none of my business and I'm trying not to waste too much thought on it, but I'm afraid I've lost a lot of respect for the people in question. I believe I'm also more bothered by the concept in general than this individual incident.

Now I'm wondering about just how common this is.

I believe - if you know or suspect - that it is you business -- absolutely!!! you have a responsibility to inform the brethren. I believe every temple endowed member has obligation (because of their temple covenants) to inform the brethren of such things. If you feel this is tattling and beneath the behavior of a Saint - I do not think you understand sacred covenants.

The Traveler

[beefche]

She understands the nature of telling the truth and of not misrepresenting herself. She is not guilty of the gross sins of the "friend" who "loaned" her the temple recommend, but her actions are despicable and disgusting, just using her own moral framework.

I agree with you. I was responding to Backroad's statement:

My biggest thought here is truly "mocking God" and putting personal relationships before covenants and integrity.

I'm not sure Catholic friend was mocking God because, regardless of her personal integrity, she is under no covenant as the LDS members are regarding keeping the temple clean. I do, however, agree with you completely that she understands what misrepresenting herself and having a moral code and integrity. Perhaps, her moral code is different than ours, but I would hope it would include being honest, having integrity and not disrepecting other's beliefs.

[Vort]

If I were you, I would mention it to the bishop, so he can look into the incident. The person lending the recommend needs to lose that recommend for at least a year, to ensure it does not happen again.

If members do not step up as witnesses, then this kind of thing will only become more common and ugly.

In my judgment, the "loaner" should be losing her membership, not merely her recommend. She has openly defied her covenants and defiled the temple.

[NeuroTypical]

It's not that I'm disagreeing with a lot of what is being said here. I guess I just know a pile of sinners who ought to be ashamed of themselves, and I've figured out how to love them like I'm commanded to. So it's easier to not get all hot under the collar when I hear some story online.

BTW, this article is a great roadmap to figuring out what to do when stuff like this happens:

“Judge Not” and Judging - Elder Dallin H. Oaks

[Vort]

Loudmouth_Mormon, you are absolutely right. I really am trying not to worry myself over it, but I don't know how to maintain the same level of respect for these people and I also don't think it's my place to find out more--I just can't bring myself to starting something with "Why did you sneak Ms. Catholic into the temple? What was your thought process there?"

Yet here I am shamefully ranting about it online.

As for being friends with them... like I said, I'm no longer the same friend I used to be with most of them--and not because of this incident, but because they have personally cheated me. My husband actually wants nothing to do with them. I do call them a friend of the family because the relationship goes back before my birth and it's hard to fully separate myself from that.

I disagree. I think LM is flat-out wrong (and I seldom disagree with LM). This is a deeply serious action. If you know or have strong reason to believe it is true, you should tell the bishop and/or stake president and provide all relevant information. They can take it from there. But you should not just wink at it and say, "Oh, well, la de da, not my problem."