Inactive with a testimony

[BrendaM]

I know how you feel. I'm a SA in a "family church". Never married, however I do have an adult daughter who is not active.

I just went to our Christmas dinner last week. Did someone ask me to sit with them? No, I went and sat myself down at a table and started talking. I'm not a hugely outgoing person, but I push myself.

I'm not sure why your HT or priesthood members have not befriended you?

I say, suck it up buttercup! The Lord needs you and you are giving up. You say you have a testimony, if you do, then you should be attending church to develope your relationship with the Lord.

It was tough for me when my daughter decided not to go to church when she was in YW. Every time a talk by a YW or musical number by YW was happening, I thought my heart could break no more and I never wanted to go back to church. I was sad beyond measure. I sucked it up and went anyways.

Sometimes I feel included, sometimes I don't. These are people, not my Savior or my Heavenly Father. I always feel included when I remember who I am, where I came from, and where I'm going.

Good luck.

[JosephP]

Maybe meds to get you through this rough spot are in order, self-help notwithstanding. You sound very severely depressed to me and I know when I'm in a deep depression, my thinking is altered and it's hard to see anything but my despair.

I am considering that, but to me antidepressants are bottled apathy. If I'm hoping for anything it's to get angry enough to motivate myself to improve. I'm not sure the dulling effect of drugs will do more than make the pain more tolerable. I'm still working, laughing with coworkers, and all the things required of me. It's the inner peace, the spirituality and hope that's been shattered. I don't think there's a pill for that. Thanks for the suggestion.

[JosephP]

I know how you feel. I'm a SA in a "family church". Never married, however I do have an adult daughter who is not active.

I just went to our Christmas dinner last week. Did someone ask me to sit with them? No, I went and sat myself down at a table and started talking. I'm not a hugely outgoing person, but I push myself.

I'm not sure why your HT or priesthood members have not befriended you?

I say, suck it up buttercup! The Lord needs you and you are giving up. You say you have a testimony, if you do, then you should be attending church to develope your relationship with the Lord.

It was tough for me when my daughter decided not to go to church when she was in YW. Every time a talk by a YW or musical number by YW was happening, I thought my heart could break no more and I never wanted to go back to church. I was sad beyond measure. I sucked it up and went anyways.

Sometimes I feel included, sometimes I don't. These are people, not my Savior or my Heavenly Father. I always feel included when I remember who I am, where I came from, and where I'm going.

Good luck.

Good response, right on target. Sadly I just don't have any "suck it up" left in me. That's what's so different. I know all the right things I should be doing, but my prayers are unfeeling mumblings, my scripture reading is just my mind drifting while waiting for the last verse to finally get there. In still glad to be of service, but not a lot of people call me and last summer I embarrassed myself telling people I was available if they needed anything.

At some point you just have to admit that all you're doing isn't working, and trying to convince myself to do more of the same failed behavior isn't convincing me.

[Windseeker]

Well for what it's worth I think you're a good guy Joseph. Just the concern you've revealed that you have for those you home teach reminds me how far short I'm coming to fulfilling my "Duty". I'm a worm when it come to my home teaching, never bothered with a substitute and I (with much shame) still show up every Sunday.

I think of the heart break my ex-wife experienced from all the glowing warm talks at church on Mothers Day when her Mother was psychotic and abusive. (Her older sister prefered being subject to rape and other horrors on the streets of Portland at 15 then live in the household my ex-wife was raised in).

Sitting in church with my 4 kids who were abandoned by their mother and the pitiful and somtimes judgemental glances from those around me and hearing all the talks on Eternal Families and my daughters cry of "what happend to "Families are Forever"?" when I annouced the plans to divorce ringing in my ears.

And recently as I mentioned, sitting at a Christmas Program and wondering if I will ever have Love at Home.

I don't know..I think if all us who have missed blessings and opportunities in our lives just left because we didn't fit in, the only people that would be there would be these "stepford" families that may not even exist.

What I'm saying is, We all have struggles. I'm sure there is someone there that needs you. It might not be now, it could be later when their life crumbles around them that they remember the faith of that man who awkwardly sat alone at the Christmas Party (and didn't run off to the beach ).

Whatever you decide I wish you the best. I don't judge you either way. Our Fathers Plan is a plan of salvation not a plan of damnation. We didn't come to this earth to fail. You will make it one way or another.

Edited December 12, 2012 by Windseeker

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Joseph, I wish I knew what to say, but I don't. I hope that you will reconsider, though I am at a loss to give you any reason to do so. I know that doesn't help, but my point is to suffer with you and not try to fix you. I personally believe that is the most appropriate response here.

I could not read this whole thread, because I put myself in your shoes and find some of the well-meaning reasons utterly painful. That is so echoes my own experiences...so yeah, I had to skip much of it. I am sory that well-meaning people possibly added to your pain.

I'm not sure why so many people think that after years of trying to reach out, to fit in, the failure rests with me that I'm not fellowshipped.

I think they do it from a self-preservation posture. If the ball is placed back in your court (or the blame) then they and everyone else are absolved from feeling any need to change or to help... It is not done intentionally, and it is not just Mormons who do it. Unfortunately it seems to be a solid part of American culture.

I don't know if this will help, but I, personally, have found much comfort in the book, The God Who Weeps, by Terryl and Fiona Givens (published by Deseret Book). The way they explain God is much more helpful to me than the usual pedagogy of adversity. It couldn't hurt to check it out. It won't solve anything, but it may be comforting in some way.

[Guest]

Maybe I should put this in another thread, but in regards to fellowshipping at activities and such, let me give you my perspective.

I have 5 small kids. My husband works so much that often he's either not able to come to activities, or he's too worn out to do so (especially being an introvert. . . activities really drain him). On top of that, I'm often asked to play the piano or help otherwise. So I come in, I'm wrangling all my kids, trying to get them settled and behaving, filling all their plates, making sure the toddlers aren't throwing food, finding a way to accompany on the piano in between. I probably notice the single adult man sitting nearby. But I do not have the physical ability to juggle everything and take care of him, too. I would LOVE it if he or anyone came and asked if they could help fill plates, entertain kids, or get them settled. I can only do so much. That I'm seen as cold or uncaring because of that kind of irritates me. Is it easier for someone standing around waiting for someone to take their hand to come find some way to help someone, or for parents of young kids and those running the activity to juggle yet another glass ball, so to speak?

Actually that literally happened at the ward Christmas party, and I only had one of my kids. I had no opportunity with everything I was doing to stop and ask him how he was and invite him to sit. But had he come and asked if he could help or even if he could sit at our table, I would have been more than happy to have him and wouldn't have thought it creepy at all.

I'm sorry to sound harsh and it's not personally directed at anyone. I just hope that everyone remembers that every single person in a room has challenges they're facing and stuff they're worried about and things weighing them down. Some of those things are more visible than others. You can't really condemn a person for not seeing and fixing your (collective) stuff when you don't have any idea what they are carrying themselves. It's on everyone to reach out, and those who are raising families or busy trying to pull an activity off aren't in as much position, at that exact moment, to do so.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I don't want to hijack the thread, but I think this is related. I agree with you Eowyn. To clarify my position, I don't blame JosephP, but I don't blame his ward either.

I think the whole blame game needs to stop. We can only change ourselves, so each of us should try to do more to help others. I know it is hard when we are overwhelmed with our own issues, but there are always ways we can help.

For example, Admiral Jim Stockdale was a POW during Vietnam. One could say that as a POW, how could he help anyone, they need to help him...and yet, he and his fellow prisoners created a type of tapping system so they could communicate even while they were in solitary confinement.

Neal A. Maxwell reminds us that the Savior served others even during his suffering, "If we use Jesus as a model in the midst of the suffering about which we're speaking, then it is also noteworthy that even in the midst of his exquisite agony he managed to have compassion for those nearby who were then suffering much, though much less than he—those on the adjoining crosses or about him below the cross. How marvelous it is when we see people who are not so swallowed up in their own suffering that they cannot still manage sympathy, even empathy, for those who suffer far, far less. How many of us here may have undergone the embarrassment of being comforted by those who had more reason to be comforted than we? Yet we recognize in that act of theirs a saintliness to which we would so gladly aspire." Speeches

How I translate this to myself on a personal level is this...as a working mom of 5 kids, going to therapy twice a week (with all the emotional turmoil that involves)...I do not feel obligated to take meals, or help someone clean their house because I REALLY don't have time...BUT there are other ways I can help. I can pray and ask who I can help...I can call or email those who are suffering. There are things I can do...

BUT if I place blame, if I take a position of "it is YOUR problem YOU are hurting" then I won't see opportunities to help others. All lof us can do something to lift one another...to succor the weak, lift up the hands which hang down and strengthen the feeble knees...

[RMGuy]

LP, great post (it deserved more than a thanks).

-RM

[NeuroTypical]

Hi JosephP,

Sorry to hear about your loss of hope. Hope is quite an important ingredient to happiness in life.

Not sure what I can do to help bear your burden, but I wish you well.

[Guest]

Tell me this: would a single man be uncomfortable sharing a holiday meal with a family he barely knows (especially considering the meal will most likely be a bit chaotic)? What about going to a large family gathering with a family in his ward?

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Tell me this: would a single man be uncomfortable sharing a holiday meal with a family he barely knows (especially considering the meal will most likely be a bit chaotic)? What about going to a large family gathering with a family in his ward?

Why does it have to be a family he barely knows? In an ideal world, some family would befriend him, and not wait for his home teachers, or the Bishop, or someone else to do that.

One of my concerns, generally speaking, is that we put too much reliance on home and visiting teachers and our poor over-worked leaders. We know home and visiting teaching are fraught with flaws and inconsistency, but still when there is a problem we assume the home/visiting teachers will take care of it.

I am not saying that you, Eowyn, have to be the one to do that...I don't know your situation other than what you have posted here. Maybe the Lord would like you to befriend another young mother in the ward, and He is nudging someone else to befriend...I mean real friendship, not just a once a year dinner invitation...the single person.

That is why I said we should pray about what we can do...we can't all do everything. That is impossible. But we can all do something, and usually we can do more than we are already doing and more than we think we can.

[RMGuy]

Why does it have to be a family he barely knows? In an ideal world, some family would befriend him, and not wait for his home teachers, or the Bishop, or someone else to do that.

One of my concerns, generally speaking, is that we put too much reliance on home and visiting teachers and our poor over-worked leaders. We know home and visiting teaching are fraught with flaws and inconsistency, but still when there is a problem we assume the home/visiting teachers will take care of it.

I am not saying that you, Eowyn, have to be the one to do that...I don't know your situation other than what you have posted here. Maybe the Lord would like you to befriend another young mother in the ward, and He is nudging someone else to befriend...I mean real friendship, not just a once a year dinner invitation...the single person.

That is why I said we should pray about what we can do...we can't all do everything. That is impossible. But we can all do something, and usually we can do more than we are already doing and more than we think we can.

Why does the answer have to be in the church...why not find someplace he fits in outside of it?

-RM

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Why does the answer have to be in the church...why not find someplace he fits in outside of it?

-RM

Excellent point. Something or someone that makes us fill fullfilled outside of the church can be helpful as well. I recently listened to a podcast by Claudia Bushman, and she said she has been "making her own callings for years"...meaning finding service opportunities outside of the church.

[beefche]

Why does the answer have to be in the church...why not find someplace he fits in outside of it?

-RM

Because the church has saving ordinances and covenants. One cannot be saved if one isn't willing to make and keep covenants. I thought that would be an obvious answer. What am I missing?

[Seminarysnoozer]

Thanks, your response was 100% related to what I'm experiencing. It's what I needed to hear. I don't imagine my situation is permanent. But right now I just can't see past the pain.

I would imagine that one of the hardest lessons for God to teach all of his children is finding joy in the success of others. This is probably why the greatest commandment is not love thyself. It is the opposite of love thyself and the second greatest commandment like it. One of the major tests of this world is a measure of how much we are willing to give of our self to assist another, to be Christlike.

I would propose the reason that that is one of the major tests in this life is because all those that make it to the Celestial Kingdom are of that type, they disregard personal ownership and exclusivity. There is a Kingdom for that kind of thought, the Telestial, as one star differs from another.

If there is any positive that comes out of the situation you are in, it is the development of the trait to find joy in the success of others in this regard as that trait is very difficult to teach, I would imagine. If one develops that trait while in this life, I am sure they surpass everyone else who "has it all".

Like the young rich man that Jesus asked to sell all and he couldn't, those who forsake all in this life (meaning, don't lay any personal claim on it with a selfish or jealous heart) will have heavenly treasures.

Matthew 19 :" 29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first."

[Vort]

Because the church has saving ordinances and covenants. One cannot be saved if one isn't willing to make and keep covenants. I thought that would be an obvious answer. What am I missing?

I understood his point not as being that the man should leave the Church, but that he could look for support in other places, rather than limiting his support structure to the Church. I agree with this, though it's sad that such support cannot be found within the group of Saints, as it should be.

[JosephP]

Tell me this: would a single man be uncomfortable sharing a holiday meal with a family he barely knows (especially considering the meal will most likely be a bit chaotic)? What about going to a large family gathering with a family in his ward?

I spent thanksgiving with a large family where I only knew the host and hostess. It was awkward but I made the best of it. It was better than being alone.

[bytebear]

Have you considered getting a dog?

[mnn727]

Have you considered getting a dog?

Some may laugh at that but my brother swears his cat was the only thing that kept him sane when he was going through his divorce.

[Dove]

Hello, Joseph;

I hear the pain and loneliness in your posts. It hurts me to read them for you. Please don't feel I'm being patronizing when you read this. I mean it sincerely. I didn't marry until my late 30's and then I married a nonmember man who is wonderfully loving and kind; albeit, we are not one in the gospel, which is a heartache to me.

Here are some ideas I can only hope will help you~They are said with the best of intent and with the intent to strengthen and support you as a fellow member in your trials at this time.

I know I have based a great deal of my worth and value on my marital status throughout my life. Also, a lot of my identity was wrapped around being a wife and mother, as is taught to be the woman's role in our church. What a disappointment to not only be single most of my life, to eventually marry outside of the temple; but, to also find out that I had so many gynecological problems that having a child could never have been an option for me. So, no "happy little feet" in our home, sadly. I also struggle with depression and this deep seated loneliness that has never really gone away, even when I was married.

So, what do we think/do/say? Realize, I am no paragon of virtue in remaining active in the church, as I have been "inactive" now for many years. Another sadness to me, as I have come to realize that there is a big difference (for me) between remaining true to my covenants and "getting along" in wards where it seems I can do anything but. It is quite a humbling and painful process to learn what I feel are invaluable lessons to learn in becoming more like Christ and remaining true to my covenants.

Here's the ideas. I remember my beloved sister-in-law telling me that "if I wasn't happy being single, I wouldn't be anymore happy being married," for true happiness comes from within, rather than from my outward circumstances. I also know what it's like to feel lonely and amongst strangers in a room full of people. Or, even to feel lonely in my dear husband's presence. Wow, what a revelation to me.

So, perhaps it may be worth questioning why you truly feel so lonely and despairing? Is it really the people around you? Or, is something going on within you to leave you feeling this way? One beautiful and sweet concept I feel I have learned through the Spirit is that I am invariably my own problem. Yet, the upside to this is that ultimately I, along with the Holy Ghost and through the atonement of Jesus Christ, can find the answers within to being okay in "my own skin." Without having to have validation from others around me.

In High School, I was very "isolated" from my peers. I think I went to one dance (or two) my whole High School career. I often went to movies by myself and did things this way. I was pretty oblivious to how much of a loser I must have appeared to others. I was never invited to any parties or even graduation celebrations by my peers~I was pretty much ostracized in school. Probably as much by myself as others. Do you know that I was okay with this? That I was okay with myself being this way? That, relatively speaking, I was pretty happy doing my own thing? I had some friends here and there throughout school. But, not much.

My point in relating this, is at that time I loved myself enough to feel okay about that. I was probably somewhat a snob as I didn't base my worth and value on other's approval of me.

Now, I really struggle with going to church events alone. Somehow I have garnered a great deal of self-hatred. I'm not okay being alone anymore or doing my own thing. I wish I could be.

Why not question if "going inactive" is really the solution to the trials/problems you are facing? Referring to yourself as "that creepy guy," no matter how true it may seem, is quite and indictment against yourself. I'm not suggesting that you "force" your company on anyone without their invitation. I am suggesting to not blame yourself for your circumstance of being the "5th wheel" in ward social settings. I have really rued leaving the gospel and being true to my covenants because of my sorrows. Why not go to God/go within yourself to figure out how you can make yourself happier? Please don't be offended; but, have you considered maybe going into counseling for awhile to come to terms with your situation and the feelings you have surrounding it?

Please consider "inactivity" as your last resort. Get in touch with your pain/emotions. Go to God. (Prayer and scripture study). Getting a dog may be very helpful. (I've recently acquired one, to my sweet joy.) Work on loving yourself and being happy in your own skin. Maybe there will come a day where you can spend a holiday taking care of yourself all alone and enjoying it. (I spent New Year's Eve of 1999-2000 all alone, even though I had really tried not to. It ended up being an intense spiritual teaching experience for me) Don't give up on singles wards, there may be one for your age group with a lot of people in your predicament. Remember, singles wards can be more for socializing than hooking up and getting hitched. Love yourself, love yourself, love yourself. Take care of yourself and go to God.

Lastly, I have an older single sister who really struggles with these issues as well. Let me know if you're interested, and I will hook you up, if you want.

Best of wishes

Dove

[FunkyTown]

Sounds like someone needs to have a Merry Christmas!

DARN YOU, GRUMPY CAT! You have destroyed my attempts at bringing holiday cheer.

[MorningStar]

Joseph,

I'm so sorry to hear you feel this way. It surprises me how even married people I know feel lonely. A friend and I were talking about this and she said people have the impression she has this great social life, but she doesn't. People assume her social calendar is all filled up.

It's hard for people in unhappy marriages to go to church and see all the people they assume are happy in their marriages.

It's hard for infertile couples to hear about the importance of having children.

It's hard for the poor to hear about being self-reliant when they have been trying so hard.

Have you told your bishop or your home teachers how you feel? I am betting that a lot of people in your ward would feel terrible if they knew you are so upset.

A friend of mine has been underemployed for years now and is barely surviving. She is most likely going to lose her home and rarely comes to church. She sneaks out before anyone can approach her because she's tired of comments like, "You still don't have a job?" When I talked to her the other day and asked if she had a visiting teaching route, she said she asked not to because she's been so anti-social. She also said she was trying to get out of having dinner with neighbors that invited her because she's so depressed. I said, "I know it's hard because you're depressed, but when you withdraw from people, you could be withdrawing from opportunities." If she has to listen to 10 annoying comments for every 1 helpful comment, I think it's worth it if it helps her get a job because what she has chosen hasn't gotten her any closer. Her despair only increases and after getting turned down for another job, she said, "Sometimes I feel like God hates me." There are a lot of people who want to support her and they are sad because they feel rejected.

I think you should start with telling people how you feel and maybe fast and ask the Lord what you need to do to build relationships with your ward family. You never know where that will lead.

[Star_]

I've asked to be released from my callings and plan not to attend meetings. I know the church is true, that God is God and all the rest. It's just that in my loneliness I can't keep sitting there listening to talks and lessons about loving families, supporting your spouse, and all of that. I despise being a single adult in a family church. Way too old for YSA. Most other SA I know have children, siblings, etc. who are members. I'm alone in this and I'm tired of being the outsider both inside the church and out. I'm tired of being rejected by women I meet for being LDS, and I've exhausted the local area of single sisters. My last long distance relationship was a disaster and I won't ever attempt that again.

I know all about "in God's time" but it falls like empty platitudes on me now. I'm hurt, angry and simply unwilling to listen to happy families telling happy family stories. It mocks my pain and isolation.

Again, its not about losing faith, it is simply the complete absence of any hope. I know it appears I am giving up, but inside it feels like I've just been beaten down.

Joseph, I am sorry for your pain. I am going to take a different angle though. You need to not give up. You are not the only single person in the church. There are many single people, whether never married, divorced, widowed.

As far as the singles meetings goes, I don't think you should give up on it. My grandma goes to those single church meetings and she is almost 90 years old, LOL! She has a great attitude about it and enjoys going. Make the most of it and don't have any serious expectations for it. I know some wards have singles meetings for older adults (age 30 or xx and over) instead of young single adults meetings.

Get outside yourself and help others. Volunteer for a cause you like. Focus on your hobbies and take up a new hobby. Focus on work if you are working. Get a pet. You need to not focus on the singleness factor. Don't dwell on it. Accept it and get on with your life. Happiness really does come from within. You really think giving up on church will improve your life? I personally don't think so. I have been inactive for years in my life. It made me less happy, not more.

There are MANY married people that are miserable. Marriage does not equal automatic happiness. Divorce is rampant. Even the marriages that seem "perfect" are not. Two imperfect people have to learn to live together in harmony. Trials and challenges of all sorts keep coming in marriage. Marriage takes work, patience, unselfishness, humility, dedication, devotion, determination, faithfulness and never ending forgiveness.

I know it is hard to look ahead but this mortal life is only a speck of our existence. Try to remember the big picture. If you don't get a chance to marry in this life, you will have an opportunity to marry and be exalted after this life! Perhaps you need to prepare all throughout this life for your special sweetheart in the next life.

Pray, read your scriptures, fast, attend the temple if you have a recommend. If you don't have a recommend- walk around the temple grounds. Say a silent prayer while you are walking around the grounds. In your prayers, tell God exactly how you are feeling and sincerely ask him for strength and guidance. Hang in there!