Where Do You Think The Two Witness Come From ?

[Chanteemomof6]

1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the daltar, and them that worship therein.

2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

3 And I will give apower unto my two witnesses and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4 These are the two olive trees, the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to aturn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all bplagues, as often as they will.

7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13 And the same hour was there a great aearthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

[Nate]

Elder Mconkie in Mormon Doctrine (I think thats were I read it) said that they will be faithfull followers of the Prophet Joseph Smith and would no doubt be from the 12.

[Chanteemomof6]

here is some more !

D&C 77: 15

15 Q. What is to be understood by the two witnesses, in the eleventh chapter of Revelation?

A. They are two prophets that are to be raised up to the Jewish nation in the last days, at the time of the restoration, and to prophesy to the Jews after they are gathered and have built the city of Jerusalem in the land of their fathers.

ZECH 4: 11-14

11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?

12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?

13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.

14 Then said he, These are the two aanointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

[Josie]

Church Institute lessons on D & C teach that these two witnesses will be from the First Presidency or Quorum of the 12 and they will be in Jerusalem approximately 4 years or 4 1/2, I cannot remember which.

[Nate]

Josie, thats the Elder Mconkie quote.

[Traveler]

My opinion is that there is a 10 and 1/2 year period that is devided in to 3 equal parts. The two witnesses will be known during the last 3 and 1/2 year part. What they will be doing for the preceeding 7 years is not certain but this will be a major event. From what I can tell the 10 and 1/2 year period has not begun. There is speculation (associated with this that got a person excommunicated) that the name of the president during this time will be David.

Rather than focus on the crazy things that may or not happen in our life time - we would be wise to be aware of things going on as we speak.

The Traveler

[mom_of_jcchlsm]

Elder Bednar comes to mind . . .

[Rosewood]

I love Elder Bednar, he's so great!

I've also heard that they were suppose to be members of the Twelve; "Special witnesses".

Traveler, I thought the witnesses came at the beginning of the war over there & helped hold off the armies. Then they get killed & are raised 3 1/2 days later, then 7 yrs of clean-up. It's so confusing. And it doesn't help that I can never find my resources. I listen to a lot of talks on tape or on BYU broadcasting, but that way I can't reference anything!

[Nate]

Elder Bednar? Is there a link?

[mom_of_jcchlsm]

There is speculation (associated with this that got a person excommunicated) that the name of the president during this time will be David.

Hence Elder Bednar (David A.) - a rising superstar among the 12 - very well liked - and still very young, but could be Prophet some day.

[Nate]

I feel that they are here and young right now.

Just a personal feeling.

There is speculation (associated with this that got a person excommunicated) that the name of the president during this time will be David.

Person excommunicated? For what and who said it would be david?

[Eric Pierre]

St. Matthew / Chapter 20

 20 ¶Then came to him the mother of Zebedee’s children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing of him.

 21 And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom.

 22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.

 23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

You will notice here that Jesus did not deny that these seats or positions did not exist, but merely indicated that He did not have the possession to give and appoint these two chosen callings.  Yet He indicates that the Father has appointed them, these two chosen seats.  These two are the two witnesses, the two candlesticks, the two olive trees yet to fulfill there appointed anointed time.  And no, one of them is not a David.  

The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that "the throne and kingdom of David is to be taken from him and given to another by the name of David in the last days, raised up out of his lineage" (TPJS, p. 339). Elder Orson Hyde, in his dedicatory prayer on the Mount of Olives, October 24, 1841, prophesied that the Jews would return to Jerusalem and that in time a leader called David, "even a descendant from the loins of ancient David, [would] be their king" (HC 4:457).

These witnesses are not kings as the world views kings or defines kings.

[Finrock]

 

St. Matthew / Chapter 20

 20 ¶Then came to him the mother of Zebedee’s children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing of him.

 21 And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom.

 22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.

 23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

You will notice here that Jesus did not deny that these seats or positions did not exist, but merely indicated that He did not have the possession to give and appoint these two chosen callings.  Yet He indicates that the Father has appointed them, these two chosen seats.  These two are the two witnesses, the two candlesticks, the two olive trees yet to fulfill there appointed anointed time.  And no, one of them is not a David.  

The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that "the throne and kingdom of David is to be taken from him and given to another by the name of David in the last days, raised up out of his lineage" (TPJS, p. 339). Elder Orson Hyde, in his dedicatory prayer on the Mount of Olives, October 24, 1841, prophesied that the Jews would return to Jerusalem and that in time a leader called David, "even a descendant from the loins of ancient David, [would] be their king" (HC 4:457).

These witnesses are not kings as the world views kings or defines kings.

 

 

Hi Eric Pierre. I hope you are doing well! :)

 

3 Nephi 16 would seem to support the idea that the David would be raised from the Jews in Jerusalem as God has promised in the last days that the gospel would come to the House of Israel. It is a very hopeful message:

 

At that day when the Gentiles shall ^asin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be ^blifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and ^cmurders, and ^dpriestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall ^ereject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.

11 And then will I ^aremember my covenant which I have made unto my people, O house of Israel, and I will bring my gospel unto them.

12 And I will show unto thee, O house of Israel, that the Gentiles shall not have power over you; but I will remember my covenant unto you, O house of Israel, and ye shall come unto the ^aknowledge of the fulness of my gospel.

13 But if the Gentiles will repent and return unto me, saith the Father, behold they shall be ^anumbered among my people, O house of Israel.

14 And I will not suffer my people, who are of the house of Israel, to go through among them, and tread them down, saith the Father.

15 But if they will not turn unto me, and hearken unto my voice, I will suffer them, yea, I will suffer my people, O house of Israel, that they shall go through among them, and shall ^atread them down, and they shall be as salt that hath lost its savor, which is thenceforth good for nothing but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of my people, O house of Israel.

16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, thus hath the Father commanded me—that I should give unto ^athis people this land for their inheritance. (Emphasis added)

 

-Finrock

[Vort]

David ben-Gurion was the first prime minister of the modern state of Israel.

[hagoth]

I happen to believe the two witnesses came from New England, and died in Illinois in 1844.

[Finrock]

I happen to believe the two witnesses came from New England, and died in Illinois in 1844.

 

Who, in 1844 or even in the whole of the 19th century, was calling down plagues, breathing fire from their mouth, or turning rivers in to blood? Or, who came back to life in 1844 after being dead for three days?

 

-Finrock

Edited August 6, 2015 by Finrock

[hagoth]

Who, in 1844 or even in the whole of the 19th century, was calling down plagues...or turning rivers in to blood?...

Hi Finrock,

 

I would suggest that you're actually misquoting/distorting the text.

 

First, the text merely says the two witnesses had the power to do those things.

Those two had the power to shut heaven that it rain not, reminiscent of Elijah.

Those two had the power to call down plagues, reminiscent of Moses.

Those two had the equivalent power/authority of Moses and Elijah.

It says nothing about whether they would actually flex that power in the same way that Moses and Elijah did.

 

Who, in 1844 or even in the whole of the 19th century, was...breathing fire from their mouth...? Or, who came back to life in 1844 after being dead for three days?

 

As to some of the other issues you happen to bring up, please consider that John was speaking figuratively, or as he specifically spells out in verse 8, "spiritually". I won't spell every aspect out, but as a partial response, consider this from Jeremiah.

 

Thoughts?

[Finrock]

Verse 5

"And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies"

 

You can't take away the plain meaning by replacing it with a "spiritual" meaning.

 

-Finrock

[hagoth]

Verse 5

"And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies"

 

You can't take away the plain meaning by replacing it with a "spiritual" meaning.

 

-Finrock

Hi again Finrock,

 

In response to the passage you quote above, I would encourage a careful reading of the linked passage in Jeremiah provided earlier. This is because John was using figurative language throughout much of Revelation, frequently alluding to Old Testament prophetic writings. And in response to your concluding sentence, if you insist that this reality somehow takes away from the message of Revelation, I don't have much more to offer, since we would clearly be talking past each other. 

[hagoth]

 "I make this broad declaration, that whenever God gives a vision of an image, or beast, or figure of any kind, He always holds Himself responsible to give a revelation or interpretation of the meaning thereof, otherwise we are not responsible or accountable for our belief in it. Don't be afraid of being damned for not knowing the meaning of a vision or figure, if God has not given a revelation or interpretation of the subject."

Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 291

 

I happen to believe God has provided interpretations of the fire-breathing prophets of Revelation - but they are interpretations that simply have to be diligently sought out piece by piece. If any of you happen to disagree, I'm certainly fine with that. Believe whatever you wish.

[cdowis]

 would no doubt be from the 12.

 

I think we could agree that anyone in the Q12 will be too busy to spend several YEARS doing missionary work.  It will be two "ordinary" missionaries, or, perhaps, two Seventies.

[BurningSword]

They are already here being prepared, behold it is Elias and Moses and how that is so is a mystery which few will accept, so if it was spoken many would become contentious but in wisdom is it withheld. They shall come in sackcloth in ways mankind does not expect for does mankind decide in whom God gives authority or how God works in His mysterious ways and is all the priesthood truly giving to the church or has some been withheld at this time. Behold the two witnesses shall have power in last days to Gather the tribes of Israel unto repentance, and power over the nations to bring forth all manner of plagues as chastisement for the evil of those days, that some may come to repentance and those whom are in condemnation be justified by the law. This is the power of Heaven the fire from their mouth for it is the truth and will come to pass as spoken by the Holy Spirit out their mouth. And any whom do wicked to them in those days shall not be able to stand in the day of burning when the Son of man comes in His Glory. 

 

They are LDS but not active at this time as have higher purpose, in their own time they may go unto the church and it leadership but it will only be if directed by the Father or Christ in which is in direct communication with both of them. It was said God works in mysterious ways it is pride of mankind to assume they know all Gods works and how things are done. Elias shall seal the chosen 144,000 before the release of the cup by Christ for he Elias is the ascending angel of the east, the four angels are already here and so you may know John the beloved of revelations is one of the four angels and can appear to whom he is appointed to appear. 

[BurningSword]

The Two witnesses will also be preparing the way before the day of burning the Second Coming as understood by mankind, this does not mean Christ has not been doing things before that day only that his revealing in true glory and form is held back until the day of burning. The higher elements that higher body's of eternal and immortality are made of can not enter this density without causing matter of this organisation to ignite, so it is that the final day was kept until the end of the Great tribulation when world has become filled in darkness. It is true their will be a secret meeting with those of the elect chosen as known to the Father, before the Second coming event happens it is necessary to correct and reorganised the Church in preparation for the bridegroom.

[BurningSword]

I think we could agree that anyone in the Q12 will be too busy to spend several YEARS doing missionary work.  It will be two "ordinary" missionaries, or, perhaps, two Seventies.

 

Wont be to do with current church standards, God works outside of the church also the church holds a partial authority for purpose of sealing and baptism they do not hold all authority of God, that will be given to the two witnesses which will be directly in contact with God and been in a translated form. 

[The Folk Prophet]

God works outside of the church also the church holds a partial authority

 

Incorrect.

Edited August 12, 2015 by The Folk Prophet