What is grace?

[Torn]

In laymans terms... what does it truly mean? I thought I understood it, but I'm learning that I don't.

[Connie]

Read this article, it really helps: His Grace Is Sufficient - New Era Aug. 2012 - new-era

[bytor2112]

What is the grace of God? It is his mercy, his love, and his condescension—all manifest for the benefit and blessing of his children, all operating to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

We rejoice in the heavenly condescension that enabled Mary to become “the mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh” (1 Nephi 11:18).

We bask in the eternal love that sent the Only Begotten into the world “that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life” (John 3:16).

We are profoundly grateful for that mercy which endureth forever and through which salvation is offered to erring mortals. -Elder Bruce R. McConkie

[bytor2112]

And perhaps the follow up question: * from Elder McConkies talk, "What Think Ye of Salvation

by Grace?

Does salvation come by grace, or grace alone, by grace without works?

It surely does, without any question in all its parts, types, kinds, and degrees.

We are saved by grace, without works; it is a gift of God. How else could it come?

In his goodness and grace the great God ordained and established the plan of salvation. No works on our part were required.

In his goodness and grace he created this earth and all that is on it, with man as the crowning creature of his creating—without which creation his spirit children could not obtain immortality and eternal life. No works on our part were required.

In his goodness and grace he provided for the Fall of man, thus bringing mortality and death and a probationary estate into being—without all of which there would be no immortality and eternal life. And again no works on our part were required.

In his goodness and grace—and this above all—he gave his Only Begotten Son to ransom man and all life from the temporal and spiritual death brought into the world by the Fall of Adam.

He sent his Son to redeem mankind, to atone for the sins of the world, “to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man” (Moses 1:39). And again all this comes to us as a free gift and without works.

There is nothing any man could do to create himself. This was the work of the Lord God.

Nor did we have any part in the Fall of man, without which there could be no salvation. The Lord provided the way, and Adam and Eve put the system into operation.

And finally, there neither has been, nor is, nor ever can be any way nor means by which man alone can, or any power he possesses, redeem himself.

We cannot resurrect ourselves anymore than we can create ourselves. We cannot create a heavenly abode for the Saints, nor make provision for the continuation of the family unit in eternity, nor bring salvation and exaltation into being. All these things are ordained and established by that God who is the Father of us all. And they all came into being and are made available to us, as free gifts, without works, because of the infinite goodness and grace of Him whose children we are.

Truly, there is no way to overstate the goodness and grandeurs and glories of the grace of God which bringeth salvation. Such wondrous love, such unending mercy, such infinite compassion and condescension—all these can come only from the Eternal God who lives in eternal life and who desires all of his children to live as he lives and be inheritors of eternal life.

[prisonchaplain]

God's Redemption At Christ's Expense

[Guest DeusCaritasEst]

And perhaps the follow up question: * from Elder McConkies talk, "What Think Ye of Salvation

by Grace?

Does salvation come by grace, or grace alone, by grace without works?

It surely does, without any question in all its parts, types, kinds, and degrees.

We are saved by grace, without works; it is a gift of God. How else could it come?

In his goodness and grace the great God ordained and established the plan of salvation. No works on our part were required.

James 2:24-You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

[Jamie123]

I know this forum is supposed to be about the LDS Gospel only, but I can't not recommend the book "What's So Amazing About Grace?" by Philip Yancey. (What's So Amazing About Grace?: Philip Yancey: 9780310245650: Amazon.com: Books) Warning: Much of what Yancey says flies in the face of LDS teaching.

[Jamie123]

James 2:24-You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Yeah - but what about...

Romans 6:11 - "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."

?

You can't be a synergist or a monergist without twisting one or the other of these verses on its head to suit your purpose. You end up saying: "Well, what Paul really meant was..." or "What the author of James was really saying was..."

The best thing I can compare it to is the wave/particle duality in physics. But try telling that to a committed Calvinist...

[Guest DeusCaritasEst]

Yeah - but what about...

?

You can't be a synergist or a monergist without twisting one or the other of these verses on its head to suit your purpose. You end up saying: "Well, what Paul really meant was..." or "What the author of James was really saying was..."

The best thing I can compare it to is the wave/particle duality in physics. But try telling that to a committed Calvinist...

That is one aspect of salvation that I get frustrated trying to explain to those who preach John 3:16 as if that were the whole of scripture...especially to those who follow Calvinist thought.

[prisonchaplain]

The doctrine of salvation remains a serious divide between Evangelicals and LDS. Our theologians will continue to discuss/debate and even argue over the deeper implications of our differences. However, in the daily discussions our two groups have, it often boils down to us evangelicals saying, "You can't earn it!" (GRACE), and LDS responding, "You've got to honor/own it!" (GOOD WORKS - HOLINESS)

Again, there's no discounting the true divide that exists in our teachings. Nevertheless, on these two matters, we're both right, and it is largely a matter of emphasis.

[Guest]

The doctrine of salvation remains a serious divide between Evangelicals and LDS. Our theologians will continue to discuss/debate and even argue over the deeper implications of our differences. However, in the daily discussions our two groups have, it often boils down to us evangelicals saying, "You can't earn it!" (GRACE), and LDS responding, "You've got to honor/own it!" (GOOD WORKS - HOLINESS)

Again, there's no discounting the true divide that exists in our teachings. Nevertheless, on these two matters, we're both right, and it is largely a matter of emphasis.

PC, this "salvation by works" and "salvation by grace" debate between Evangelicals and Catholics is actually bridged by LDS. This is one of those things that I saw where the Catholic belief is true but only up to the extent that it is missing one vital piece of knowledge... and, similarly, the Evangelical teaching is also true but only up to the extent that it is missing one vital piece of knowledge. And that vital piece is the Degrees of Glory.

[Blackmarch]

In laymans terms... what does it truly mean? I thought I understood it, but I'm learning that I don't.

for me, the simplest term is anything god does for your benefit (more than his).

Edited May 23, 2013 by Blackmarch

[prisonchaplain]

Good insight, Anatess. Then again, many evangelicals accept that within the Kingdom of Heaven there will be varying levels of responsibility. We sometimes speak of "earning a star in our crown." While we are reticent to say we are trying to earn one of the better spots (all glory to Jesus, right???), we see in the parable of the talents that some are richer in harvesting than others. The degrees of glory puts a lot more detail into what it means to work for God--but many Christians have a vague understanding that faithfulness to God brings eternal rewards WITHIN heaven.

[Traveler]

The doctrine of salvation remains a serious divide between Evangelicals and LDS. Our theologians will continue to discuss/debate and even argue over the deeper implications of our differences. However, in the daily discussions our two groups have, it often boils down to us evangelicals saying, "You can't earn it!" (GRACE), and LDS responding, "You've got to honor/own it!" (GOOD WORKS - HOLINESS)

Again, there's no discounting the true divide that exists in our teachings. Nevertheless, on these two matters, we're both right, and it is largely a matter of emphasis.

As I understand the first step of grace is sacrifice. In Genesis we are told that G-d created the heavens and the earth. The one consistent message of scriptural creation as well as scientific discovery; is that creation was an intensive process of great investments. The process was not simple but an act of sacrifice and divine commitment. Every act of G-d is an act of sacrifice propelled by his love and compassion for man. The word we use to describe this loving dedicated sacrifice is “Grace”.

But the great gift of grace is only made great by how it is received. Various sects can argue over details but the truth of grace stand in glory unaltered by human opinions. The grace of G-d is activated and becomes significant by our emulation of sacrifice. The grace of G-d is not in us as long as we seek glory unto ourselves. The grace of G-d is only activated by our sacrifice propelled by our love and compassion for G-d and our fellow man.

The truth is that in order to fully receive the grace of G-d we must become the example of him and his grace to ourselves as well as others – we become what he is. That is the piece of the puzzle revealed to some LDS that seems to be too difficult an idea for Evangelicals to even consider.

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

Traveler, you are spot on in this--for informed and active evangelicals the teaching that we can become what God is cannot be reached by investigation, discussion, or gradual progression. It's one of those doctrines that can only be arrived at by conversion--or at least by first rejecting core understandings of the historic church. As I said in another thread, it is not at all hard for me to understand why Joseph Smith believed he had to start a new church.

On the other hand, your post does bring to mind my relationship with my own children. I suppose we grace our children when we invest in them with our hearts, heads, time, and resources. They may choose to embrace faith, and find great comfort in our family traditions and customs. In such cases, there is pride, easy love, warm holidays--the stuff of your church's promotional materials. In other cases, our children choose to leave the family path, and find their own way--apart from church, God, and the family values. Our hearts ache, we pray, and we hope. God is like that too. This too is grace.

[Seminarysnoozer]

In laymans terms... what does it truly mean? I thought I understood it, but I'm learning that I don't.

Grace is like being accepted to college, it is a great opportunity that you could not offer yourself alone but you still have to take the classes, study and pass the exams.

[justinc]

Late to the discussion but I noticed the Grace, Faith & Works topic came up.

Someone mentioned Romans 6:11 "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."

What we cant forget is that when Paul speaks of grace he is really saying 'grace through faith'. The reference to 'works' here is most likely an abbreviation of the phrase 'works of the law' which refers to things like circumcision etc within Judaism. Paul was arguing that it is on the basis of our faith in Christ that we are Gods people and not by our 'works' (circumcision etc). We will all be judged in accordance with a moral life lived, our Lord Jesus was very clear on this.

[bytebear]

I always think of it this way. Jesus paid for our sins 2000 years ago. Regardless of what we do or how we act, the debt is paid. But we will still be judged by our works, and we still need to covenant with God to accept certain blessings. As stated before, it's not about a specific task or how many times we do something, but it's about who we become. But there are covenants we MUST make to increase in becoming like Christ. We most be baptized. These "saving" ordinances aren't works though. They are steps to understanding Christ. They are doors that open our hearts and minds to a more sure knowledge of Him. And they bring us closer to becoming like Him. But His grace is already in place.

[ElectofGod]

Latter-day Saint scholar Richard Draper: “To receive grace for grace is to receive assistance on the condition of giving assistance.” “Apparently, it was necessary for the Lord to grow through this process. In order to do so, he first received grace, or divine assistance from the Father. This grace he extended to his brethren. As he did so he received even more grace. The process continued until he eventually received a fulness of the

glory of the Father” (‘Light, Truth, and Grace,’ 37-38)

Another thought to add to this.

[applepansy]

James 2:24-You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Search the word "merit" in the LDS standard works. You'll get your answer in all nine verses. :)

[Drpepper]

The funny thing about this thread is that grace is not found in intellectual conversation. But those who have experienced grace know exactly what it is.

[Letrell]

The funny thing about this thread is that grace is not found in intellectual conversation. But those who have experienced grace know exactly what it is.

THANK YOU, Dr.Pepper. That is exactly how I feel. I have read all the comments and I am thinking, dang it, I know what it is. I feel it. I understand grace, but I can't put it into any words to define it other than it too, is a gift to us.

I turned to the Church website and searched "define Grace". Silly me. It took me straight to the Bible Dictionary. The first comment in there is EXACTLY how I see grace. I hope this helps:

"A word that occurs frequently in the New Testament, especially in the writings of Paul. The main idea of the word is divine means of help or strength, given through the bounteous mercy and love of Jesus Christ."

I think of comments such as, "There but by the Grace of God, go I" and "God's Grace saved me". I understand those comments. I have a difficult time with the indepth comments.

I want to thank all of you for putting so much time into this topic. Wow. I will indeed read all the explanations and probably do some studying up on what you have been posting. I'm amazed at how indepth it goes. I think maybe I am too simple-minded when it comes to the Gospel. But, hey, it's me. I love it with all I have inside of me. And I know it's the truth. So all that y'all post in this sight only adds to my education? (LOL).

Enjoy your day today!

Letrell

[Guest DeusCaritasEst]

The doctrine of salvation remains a serious divide between Evangelicals and LDS. Our theologians will continue to discuss/debate and even argue over the deeper implications of our differences. However, in the daily discussions our two groups have, it often boils down to us evangelicals saying, "You can't earn it!" (GRACE), and LDS responding, "You've got to honor/own it!" (GOOD WORKS - HOLINESS)

Again, there's no discounting the true divide that exists in our teachings. Nevertheless, on these two matters, we're both right, and it is largely a matter of emphasis.

I agree, as I understand Catholic teaching God gives us Grace freely, we do nothing to earn it, and we can choose to act upon that Grace(good works) to spread the Love of Christ.

[bytebear]

Grace is neither works nor faith. Grace is the sacrifice of Christ and the atonement which he did 2000 years ago. Our faith, our works cannot change the act that he already performed. That is grace.

[Guest DeusCaritasEst]

Grace is neither works nor faith. Grace is the sacrifice of Christ and the atonement which he did 2000 years ago. Our faith, our works cannot change the act that he already performed. That is grace.

I agree that Grace is not works. Faith is a gift given by Grace (Eph 2:8). And it's not our faith that changes Christ's sacrifice, but our response to our faith that changes us.