Ex husband attempts at convincing me divorce was of God

[budding]

I've posted on this forum before regarding my ex husband reason for divorce ... God told him to divorce me so he could get the spirit back and have the darkness that plagued him since marrying me disappear. I received many comforting and straightforward answers from fellow forum members ... thank you!

Now on to the latest .. Which begs another question to my fellow forum members ...

Background:

My ex husband continues to try to convince me that divorcing me was God directed, sacred and sanctified. I don't understand his choice and never will understand. I have told him this time and time again

Yet, he is asking me to consider and to pray for understanding.

Now he is throwing in my face my precious conversion story as a comparison to his reasoning. He is using my conversion to the Mormon Church and comparing it to his choice to leave our marriage. He thinks I will relate to his choice by using something familiar to me.

My choice to leave the Catholic Church broke my parent's heart. On the other hand, saw it as a God directed choice. However my parents saw it as a wrong choice.

He sees his decision as God directed choice, yet I see it as a wrong choice

I told my husband that divorce destroys and conversion is life altering. He doesn't see it that way. He sees that I had to "destroy" my current life, my relationship with my parents and their religion to become the person I wanted to be. This is the way he see his choice ... Walking away from our marriage to have the spirit return and become the person God wants him to be.

He also uses Abraham being commanded to sacrifice Isaac ... Nephi being commanded to kill Laban and Joseph Smith being commanded to practice polygamy as additional support to his decision.

There is no reasoning with him. When I told him that divorce destroys and conversion uplifts he became agitated with me. I stayed calm.

He said, "You will never understand and no one will." He says that God warns him to not discuss his choice because no will understand and he will feel darkness if he does.

He's right ... no one will understand. The only one who does understand is the other woman who was a background influence in his decision to leave this marriage and is waiting to marry him.

Ok folks ... What would be your reply to him (make it nice :) ) regarding using my conversion choice and all the other scriptural accounts of obedience? Or another thoughts.

What could I say to at least bear witness to him. He won't listen, but I must bear witness and move on.

Thanks for the constructive input!

[lagarthaaz]

Tell him he has a borderline narcissistic personality disorder - and should seek psychiatric advice.

Ok...I've got nothing 'nice' to say about his idiotic reasoning so I'll stop right there

[beefche]

Do you have kids with him? If not, then why are you communicating with him at all?

[pam]

I'm with Beefche. If you don't have children you need to communicate about don't communicate at all. If he wants to believe that way let him. I think it's idiotic reasoning on his part but that's just my opinion.

[NeuroTypical]

You could suggest that he come to this site, and try to convince us...

[Dravin]

Ok folks ... What would be your reply to him (make it nice ) regarding using my conversion choice and all the other scriptural accounts of obedience? Or another thoughts.

Given that he says that God is telling him not to discuss his decision with anyone I'd ask him why he's discussing his decision with anyone.

[Windseeker]

He said, "You will never understand and no one will." He says that God warns him to not discuss his choice because no will understand and he will feel darkness if he does.

I don't think Heavenly Father would ever provide experiences or ask us to make choices that would cause us to feel darkness when we discuss them with others. If Nephi felt darkness in discussing what he did to Laben then he certianly didn't show it by sharing it with millions and millions of people.

As it has been mentioned there is no reasoning with this person. It's strange he feels such a compulsion to justify his actions and to convince you that he was directed from Heavenly Father. In the end he and all of us will stand and be held accountable for all the choices we made in this life.

As it has been recommended, the deed is done, it’s in the past and so what is the point of discussing it?

You need to move on and not get mired up in this pathetic drama.

[prisonchaplain]

The pentecostal in me wonders...he keeps mentioning a spiritual darkness. Could it be the opposite of what he says--that he has embraced a spiritual darkness? It may be a lying spirit, and adulterous one--something foul that deludes him into believing he can please God by abandoning His clear teaching in favor of self-serving 'spiritual promptings.'

[Dravin]

The pentecostal in me wonders...he keeps mentioning a spiritual darkness. Could it be the opposite of what he says--that he has embraced a spiritual darkness? It may be a lying spirit, and adulterous one--something foul that deludes him into believing he can please God by abandoning His clear teaching in favor of self-serving 'spiritual promptings.'

If every time he explains his reasoning to another he feels a spiritual darkness it being not because he's betraying a sacred confidence (as I'd guess he supposes) but rather that it's the fruits of his actions and decisions being manifest to him seems rather reasonable to me, particularly in light of the decision to attribute them to God. I doubt the spirit sticks around with someone when they are essentially bearing testimony that God told them to sin.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Dravin

[estradling75]

From your prior posts it seems that your husband requires external approval to validate himself and his actions. You are direct reminder of his past/recent actions and you do not approve so you are denying him his validation. Thus for him to be right you need to 'approve' of it.

Of course even as you work on forgiveness you never need to approve of what he did.

As for his argument... If you can at all ignore it then you should do so. If not then point out that when you converted you felt at peace with the choice, even with the cost of your family. While you were more then happy to talk to them. You never felt a spiritual darkness when they rejected you. If he truly feels the same then when discussing the path God has for him he should never feel spiritual darkness. That he does feel such spiritual darkness about his choices is the biggest sign ever that he is going the wrong way... Listening to the wrong spirit.

[Jenamarie]

IMO, you won't convince him. He won't allow himself to be convinced. That would mean admitting he was wrong, and he's trying his hardest to convince everyone (and probably himself, too) that he was right.

I agree with beefche, unless you have kids together, your commitment to him is done and over with*, so just let him be.

(*unless you DO owe him something that's spelled out in the divorce decree, in which case limit your communications to things related to those commitments ONLY. Period. You don't owe him anything more than that)

[applepansy]

I would stop discussing anything with him other than anything related to children or the divorce. Tell him to stop trying to convince you that black is white that bad is good.

[Martain]

Would God ever in any scenario give one of his children a revelation or approval to get divorced? To say no would be to falsely say that all individuals who get divorced are going contrary to the will of God.

The inspiration or source behind his revelation came either from God or the Devil.

Let us say you receive a vision where you're told that the Lord has someone specifically picked out for you who you covenanted with in the preexistence to marry and that you don't need to seek them out for the Lord will reveal them to you when the time is right.

Are there individuals who've made such agreements in the preexistence? Sure! Adam and Eve were one such pair were they not? Are there not marriages where the Lord revealed the right person? Sure! Isaac and Rebecca were one such pair were they not?

Let's say you receive a revelation that the Lord wants you're to leave your home and move somewhere else. Are there such individuals who've received such commands from the Lord? Sure! Was not Nephi's father Lehi one who received such revelation?

Does it mean when a friend received such a vision/dream regarding dating it was of the Lord? No! He asked in prayer and received confirmation that it was not of the Lord.

Does it mean when a friend received such a vision/dream regarding moving to Austin Texas that it was of the Lord? No! He asked in prayer and received confirmation that it was not of the Lord.

The Devil is a wily and cunning fellow and very good at mimicking true revelation. Depending on the method of delivery, it sometimes takes revelation to determine the source of revelation.

Were I the spouse I would have probed more deeply into the manner and form the revelation came. I'd want to know just what was it about the manner in which the revelation was received that makes them so certain it was from the Lord. Armed with this I would then ask the Lord myself the source of the revelation. If the witness from the Lord to me is that the other was of the Devil I would then counter and say something like:

"You indicate you've received a revelation from God to get a divorce from me. I've pondered what you've said, prayed about it and I've received revelation via (insert method, - such as burning in the busom) from God that such counsel was not a revelation from God but from the Devil instead."

"Ask yourself, who here is receiving revelation from God? The one who was committing adultery in his heart at the least or the one who was being fully loyal to the marriage covenants and law of Chastity? If you in your spiritual condition truly received such from the Lord, would he not with much greater ease manifest it to your Bishop as well or are you saying that the Bishop is less righteous than yourself? If not, why did you not counsel with your Priesthood Leader?"

Or something like that. If I myself knew their revelation to be false and couldn't convince them then I would seek out assistance from our Bishop regarding the matter for where as one testimony might not have been sufficient evidence, perhaps multiple testimonies would.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Martain

[Guest]

It sounds to me like he's done you a big favor.

[budding]

Thank you for all your great (and some tongue in cheek) replies. Some made me laugh! Some of you asked why am the heck am I still seeing my ex? Good observation! I can only use three words ... "Still in love" dang it! He ran over me and some of my actions makes it look like he took me for a lovely walk in the park! I'm slooooowly getting to a vantage point of seeing and not putting up with his narcissistic ways! My heart makes me a slow learner! I feel sorry for sick puppies and kitties ... I find myself feeling the same way about him. I feel sorry for both him and the other woman ... both are so misguided. My husband was the one to make the ultimate decision in seeing another woman, but the other woman was a powerhouse behind him. I was spitting mad and revengeful toward the OW and wanted church ACCOUNTABILITY. When I told my Catholic mother that I was going to talk to her bishop ... my mother replied, "I'll pray for you. Why would you want to destroy another person? She will receive her due judgement by the only person who should judge." GULP ... my Catholic mother shamed me. I was humbled by her words and listened. Why stoop? ... I'm low enough. I still have some pretty heavy duty feelings going on, but The Lord is changing my heart ... I feel sorry for her.

I pray, in The Lord's time, I will be blessed with continuing healing and a sure footing to move on! Thanks all!

[applepansy]

If there are no children then your heart will heal faster if you have nothing to do with him.j

[selek]

Thank you for all your great (and some tongue in cheek) replies. Some made me laugh! Some of you asked why am the heck am I still seeing my ex? Good observation! I can only use three words ... "Still in love" dang it!

Based on the dictum "If you can't say anything nice" I was going to limit myself to pushing the various "Laugh" and "Thank" buttons- but this statement made me sit up and take notice.

My ex-wife and I have been divorced for nearly fourteen years now- and we were only married for seven.

There isn't a day that goes by that I don't wake up pining for her, wanting to undo the past, and wanting to build a Celestial marriage with her.

She professes that she doesn't want me any more, but woe betide the moment she finds I might actually be interested in another woman.

She doesn't want me; but can't stand the thought of me being with anyone else.

She's made periodic, half-hearted attempts at single's wards, E-harmony, that sort of thing- knowing full well what that does to me; but thus far, nothing's ever come of it.

Neither of us has (thus far) been willing or able to make the core changes necessary to be togther; but neither have we been willing or able to walk away.

We are trapped in each others orbit, unwilling to be together, unable to leave.

And that's no way to live.

My advice to you (knowing full well the hypocrisy I offer) is to make the break as quickly and cleanly as you can.

Get away before he makes you crazy.

Get away before he damages your testimony.

Get away before he settles down with his sugar momma and starts wondering if things weren't better before- and tries to use YOU as "the other woman".

Get away before he breaks your heart again- because he will.

Get away before it's too late.

Find youself a genuine man- a good and honorable Priesthood holder who will honor his covenants instead of trying to use God to justify his betrayal.

What he did WAS NOT of God.

He knowingly made covenants with you and God- and willingly broke those covenants to feed his appetite. Now he's trying to justify that betrayal in the name of God.

I pray, in The Lord's time, I will be blessed with continuing healing and a sure footing to move on! Thanks all!

[classylady]

I don't have much more to add. You've been given some great advice.

I did want to make several comments about receiving revelation or an answer to prayer to divorce a spouse. There are times when one party in the marriage is miserable, and the marriage becomes so difficult and negative to them, that they can no longer remain in the marriage. The opposite might be true for the other spouse. They may be satisfied with the marriage. Something similar happened to my husband's brother. He and his wife had their ups and downs in the marriage, but he was not aware of just how unhappy his wife was. She went to the temple to pray about divorcing her husband. She says, she received an answer to divorce. My BIL received an opposite answer. He prayed about trying to save the marriage and to try to make the marriage work. Both of these individuals are wonderful people with strong testimonies of the gospel. With counseling, and a desire to work on their marriage, they probably could have made their marriage work. But, she was to the point where it was too late. I believe she did get the answer to divorce. I believe her husband received the answer to try to make it work. I think if she had wanted to save the marriage and prayed about trying to make it work, she would have received an answer to try and make it work. The Lord often gives us what we ask for--remember Joseph Smith and the first pages of the Book of Mormon?

The one thing that the Lord won't do, and that is condone infidelity or other sinful practices. Infidelity, under any circumstance, is never acceptable.

[Martain]

When I told my Catholic mother that I was going to talk to her bishop ... my mother replied, "I'll pray for you. Why would you want to destroy another person? She will receive her due judgement by the only person who should judge." GULP ... my Catholic mother shamed me. I was humbled by her words and listened. Why stoop? ... I'm low enough. I still have some pretty heavy duty feelings going on, but The Lord is changing my heart ... I feel sorry for her.

I pray, in The Lord's time, I will be blessed with continuing healing and a sure footing to move on! Thanks all!

D&C 64

8 My disciples, in days of old, sought occasion against one another and forgave not one another in their hearts; and for this evil they were afflicted and sorely chastened.

9 Wherefore, I say unto you, that ye ought to forgive one another; for he that forgiveth not his brother his trespasses standeth condemned before the Lord; for there remaineth in him the greater sin.

10 I, the Lord, will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men.

11 And ye ought to say in your hearts—let God judge between me and thee, and reward thee according to thy deeds.

12 And him that repenteth not of his sins, and confesseth them not, ye shall bring before the church, and do with him as the scripture saith unto you, either by commandment or by revelation.

13 And this ye shall do that God may be glorified—not because ye forgive not, having not compassion, but that ye may be justified in the eyes of the law, that ye may not offend him who is your lawgiver—

14 Verily I say, for this cause ye shall do these things.

When someone within the church commits such sin (adultery/fornication among others) but remains unrepentant and does not of their own will come forward confessing, the command is to bring them before the Church which unless your ex is a High Priest in this case means their Bishop(s).

The outcome of such church discipline is not our concern but between the Lord and his authorized servants. Once we've brought such to their knowledge, we leave the rest in their hands.

You were on the right path action wise... you just had the wrong reasons originally for wanting to do so. Her counsel was very wise, I feel inspired, because it checked you redirected you from the path of anger and hatred to forgiveness and love.

Go, not because you want to ruin someone's life, not because you don't forgive or are not wanting and trying to forgive but because it's the right thing to do and because you do not want to offend your Savior by not going.

As forgiveness is a gift from God, so is a forgiving heart. Unless your desire is to be sorely chastened and afflicted, once you've reported these deeds, your primary goal then should remain to fully forgive them.

To this end I too prayed for you.

God Bless,

Brother M.

[MomInBabylon]

I had a similar experience with a boyfriend who I thought was "the one." I thought we were perfect together , he was handsome, made me laugh, we both had strong testimonies, etc. Then one day he came to me and told me that he never felt the spirit when he was with me and he had prayed about it and gotten a strong impression that we needed to break up.

I was devastated and went into a really dark place in my life. I took his answered prayer to mean that Heavenly Father didn't approve of me or didn't love me as I thought he did. After awhile I began to pray for understanding. After months of depression and praying I finally got the strongest, warmest, most loving feeling in my heart and the words in my mind, "It was because YOU deserved better than HIM!" I was shocked by this revelation, but finally came to peace with myself.

Now years later I am happily married to the best man for me, have wonderful children, and am happy and at peace with myself. The aforementioned boyfriend is still not married and continues to struggle with relationships and commitment.

So, my advice to you would be to turn your heart and life over to the Lord and ask Him what he wants of you.

[bluedreams]

Ok folks ... What would be your reply to him (make it nice :) ) regarding using my conversion choice and all the other scriptural accounts of obedience? Or another thoughts.

What could I say to at least bear witness to him. He won't listen, but I must bear witness and move on.

Thanks for the constructive input!

Bull!.....that's what I'd say... nicely and with a grin and my death stare that would let him know that arguing the point is beyond stupid.

But if you want it nicer, I'd point out that Abraham didn't actually kill isaac. That all commands...all of them....should be within the bounds the Lord has set. The Lord is pretty dang clear about the eternal nature of marriage and adultery of any sort.

But i wouldn't bother. Sometimes silence is better...like in Alma 30:29 - Now when the high priest and the achief judge saw the hardness of his heart, yea, when they saw that he would brevile even against God, they would not make any reply to his words. He's convinced himself into a rabbit hole. Let him trip on his own....it's bound to happen. In the meantime, do what's right for you and the kids.

with luv,

BD