Ruling Your Own Planets? goddess with God?

[jinc1019]

Correct; however, if you come accross scriptures which you are unsure of or what they mean please do not interpret them from your perspective. In order to understand our beliefs make sure you understand our core doctrines.

I, personally, find it very nerving when I read on the internet, or watch a youtube video, and someone tries to twist our doctrine by saying, "You see, this is what Mormons believe, it is in their scripture," and they are interpreting our scripture incorrectly.

So to speak, coming from a skit with a judge and the man says, "Well, I am not a man, who would commit a murder." The judge responds, "Wait, did you say you are 'not a man,' hmm.."

Taking our doctrine out of context doesn't help in learning what we actually believe.

I agree, but it can't be "out of context" if I am reading it from your scriptures in its entirety.

[Finrock]

You are right. But the problem with this is...if the Spirit doesn't confirm this belief in an individual, which is the case with myself, then there isn't any hope of ever believing it based on that reliance.

That isn't so. How did you gain your belief, whatever it is, in the first place?

Let's take away the veneer, so to speak. Some man or woman told you something that they believe in. However you accepted it and for whatever reasons, you have accepted what you accept. But, it did not originate from you. You heard it from someone else and they heard it from another. You are accepting or rejecting another's witness as to what reality is, whether it's things you accept as scripture or things you don't, unless you have your own experiences with the Divine, which are not passed down to you in the least.

So, now, I offer you my testimony that there is a Heavenly Mother. The Holy Spirit has confirmed this to my spirit which exist inside my mortal body. I received a witness because I sought after the truth of it after hearing the thought from another person. The thought was planted in to my mind. I didn't reject the thought. When I was ready the Holy Spirit confirmed that this was indeed truth as I had supposed that it was.

This isn't essential knowledge at the moment, however, the Holy Scriptures that we have do not deny it even if they do not expressly teach it. You can outright accept, test, or reject my testimony just as you would do with any other witness you receive from a mortal. I hope that no matter what you do, in the end you will seek your own witness of truth from the Holy Spirit and then accept that witness given to you by the Holy Ghost. Is that not the greatest reason we have for accepting truth?

-Finrock

[Just_A_Guy]

I agree, but it can't be "out of context" if I am reading it from your scriptures in its entirety.

Well, I think theoretically, it could. The scriptures, in and of themselves, don't always tell the whole story; or told it in a way that made sense for one audience but not another because their cultural assumptions and values differed. We see this when we're studying the Bible--how much "context" can we get by supplementing our study with a Hebrew/Greek lexicon, or a map, or books on regional archaeology/history?

This may not be quite as much of an issue with the Book of Mormon--just because, since we haven't pinned down the geographical setting, there's not a lot of supplemental material to be had--but it's certainly an issue with the Doctrine and Covenants and portions of the Pearl of Great Price. For example, D&C 132:57 makes absolutely no sense, unless you know that Joseph Smith's wife Emma was at this time demanding that he re-title some of their marital property into her name only (basically trying to secure her marital property prerogatives under the law, in the face of Joseph's polygamous marriages).

[Anddenex]

I agree, but it can't be "out of context" if I am reading it from your scriptures in its entirety.

I would second JAGs response in relation to this statement, and simply add, Yes, unfortunately it can and I continually see it online, especially on youtube, and even sites which profess they are "neutral" providers; However, agreeing with the interpretation and the doctrine is a different matter.

Let me take a different approach. Have you ever watched an episode, a debate, of Hitchens and his interpretation of the Holy Bible which he also would say he had read from the Holy Bible in its entirety? If so, then you will easily notice how easily he misinterpreted scripture and then promoted his misrepresentation. Whether or not a person agrees with the correct interpretation is not the point, but misrepresenting a person's belief is the point.

When on a mission, I learned many different religions. I began to study Jehovah Witnesses to understand their beliefs. I may not agree with their beliefs but I began to understand their interpretation of scripture such that I wouldn't misrepresent it to any other person.

EDIT: Please note I am not specifying that you are misrepresenting any of our beliefs, just that as you study, please make sure you understand our core beliefs.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Anddenex

[estradling75]

I agree, but it can't be "out of context" if I am reading it from your scriptures in its entirety.

Consider for the moment that Mormons have one of the largest set of canonized works of any religion. And our canon is open. So just to put a single scripture in context of the rest of our Canon you have to have read and understood a whole lot of stuff. Then you have our history, our culture, and even modern revelation/guidance/interpretation. That is a whole lot of stuff that you have to absorbed to have 'context'

On the other hand you seem to have some success with the ask us what we believe when you find something you don't understand. We can put it into context for you reasonably quickly

[bytebear]

You must understand that the word "God" is a singular that describes a collection (Father, Son, Holy Ghost). A good example that you already understand is the word "Family' which is also singular (there is one family) made up of separate individuals (Father, Mother, child). We are promised we can become one with God, or using the same analogy, adopted in to a family, but there is still only one family.

[jinc1019]

These are all fair points and I will try not to take anything out of context, seeking the advice of those who know better than I do prior to making any judgments. I am a pretty fair individual, and when it comes to religion, I am more interested in getting to the truth than I am anything else. The truth is my only agenda so I don't ever intentionally try to reach a conclusion I want.

I started really reading the Book of Mormon from beginning to end a few days ago. So far, several things stand out to me, some support the Mormon claim and some do not. Since this thread is really not about those specific issues, I won't address them here but will instead open another thread when the time is right.

Thanks to everyone again for your help.

Justin

[mnn727]

The only place I have ever heard that we think "We will rule our own planets' is on Anti-LDS Websites.

We teach (found in the Bible) that we will be heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ of all the Father has if we are true and faithful. Any details as to what that means is only speculation.

Romans 8:17

New International Version (NIV)

17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

[mnn727]

Apparently I need to learn more about what Mormons actually believe from the BOC, D&C, and Pearl of Great Price. It seems to me that much of what I have heard about Mormonism is largely false or exaggerated or taken to be official doctrine when it is not. Speaking as someone who has never even really known a Mormon personally, you all have really been given the shaft by the general Christian community in America.

If you want to find out about Fords would you ask a Chevy salesman?

Asking questions here is a good start, but yes, study the Book of Mormon, etc for yourself and pray about what you are reading. Start the discussions with the Missionaries - they are not high pressure people, their job is to teach and let you decide.

Meet with the Missionaries | Mormon.org

[Finrock]

The purpose of life is to perpetuate life forever. God's plan is all about an eternal increase. In naturalistic terms, the continuation of the species forever.

If God's work and glory is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man and if we are to be one with the Father and the Son and heirs and joint-heirs with Christ, then there is no other answer except that we will continue the work of the Father of bringing to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. Whatever work He does, we will do. If the Father creates universes, then we will be doing the same. If He creates worlds, then we will be doing the same.

If we are to be Gods, then we will be doing the work of Gods.

-Finrock

[jinc1019]

If you want to find out about Fords would you ask a Chevy salesman?

Asking questions here is a good start, but yes, study the Book of Mormon, etc for yourself and pray about what you are reading. Start the discussions with the Missionaries - they are not high pressure people, their job is to teach and let you decide.

Meet with the Missionaries | Mormon.org

I have spoken with missionaries before and yes they are quite helpful.

[jinc1019]

The purpose of life is to perpetuate life forever. God's plan is all about an eternal increase. In naturalistic terms, the continuation of the species forever.

If God's work and glory is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man and if we are to be one with the Father and the Son and heirs and joint-heirs with Christ, then there is no other answer except that we will continue the work of the Father of bringing to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. Whatever work He does, we will do. If the Father creates universes, then we will be doing the same. If He creates worlds, then we will be doing the same.

If we are to be Gods, then we will be doing the work of Gods.

-Finrock

This is speculation though, correct? I don't see any official passages of your scripture that say this (ALTHOUGH, I obviously don't know them very well).

[andypg]

Personally, my interpretation of exaltation is different than most Latter-Day Saints, so no one report me to President Monson! Also, fully disclosure, I've been a member only 2 and a half months.

Anyways, my view of exaltation and becoming gods is that we will reach a mystical and mysterious union/communion with God. It's a less conventional LDS view of it.

As far as God having a wife, that I'm still not sure I believe, I'm working on it.

[jinc1019]

Personally, my interpretation of exaltation is different than most Latter-Day Saints, so no one report me to President Monson! Also, fully disclosure, I've been a member only 2 and a half months.

Anyways, my view of exaltation and becoming gods is that we will reach a mystical and mysterious union/communion with God. It's a less conventional LDS view of it.

As far as God having a wife, that I'm still not sure I believe, I'm working on it.

Thanks for sharing that. I can certainly understand and relate to those views!

[Finrock]

This is speculation though, correct? I don't see any official passages of your scripture that say this (ALTHOUGH, I obviously don't know them very well).

It's speculation to those who have a problem believing it. There is a certain faction of Mormons who for one reason or another are still influenced by traditional Christianity and so they balk at the idea of being equal with God.

When you say you don't "see any official passages of [our] scripture that say this", I am not exactly sure I know what this identifies. However, there are scriptures that define what God's work is and how He obtains glory. There are scriptures that tells us straight out that we will be gods. There are scriptures that define Eternal Life. There are no scriptures that explicitely say, "When you are a God you will create worlds".

God's Work and Glory

37 And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine.

38 And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words.

39 For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

Heirs and Joint-Heirs

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

We Can Receive Fullness

11 And I, John, bear record that I beheld his glory, as the glory of the Only Begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth, even the Spirit of truth, which came and dwelt in the flesh, and dwelt among us.

12 And I, John, saw that he [Jesus Christ] received not of the fulness at the first, but received grace for grace;

13 And he received not of the fulness at first, but continued from grace to grace, until he received a fulness;

14 And thus he was called the Son of God, because he received not of the fulness at the first.

15 And I, John, bear record, and lo, the heavens were opened, and the Holy Ghost descended upon him in the form of a dove, and sat upon him, and there came a voice out of heaven saying: This is my beloved Son.

16 And I, John, bear record that he received a fulness of the glory of the Father;

17 And he received all power, both in heaven and on earth, and the glory of the Father was with him, for he dwelt in him.

18 And it shall come to pass, that if you are faithful you shall receive the fulness of the record of John.

19 I give unto you these sayings that you may understand and know how to worship, and know what you worship, that you may come unto the Father in my name, and in due time receive of his fulness.

20 For if you keep my commandments you shall receive of his fulness, and be glorified in me as I am in the Father; therefore, I say unto you, you shall receive grace for grace.

We Shall Be Gods

20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.

21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory.

22 For strait is the gate, and narrow the way that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the lives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.

23 But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that where I am ye shall be also.

24 This is eternal lives—to know the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath sent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.

Eternal Life Is God's Life

10 For, behold, the mystery of godliness, how great is it! For, behold, I am endless, and the punishment which is given from my hand is endless punishment, for Endless is my name. Wherefore—

11 Eternal punishment is God’s punishment.

12 Endless punishment is God’s punishment.

-Finrock

[jinc1019]

I was saying it was speculation that you will be creating planets, etc. All your scriptures say is that you will be joint heirs with Christ, gods, etc. It doesn't say what you will be doing or why. You have opinions about that but it isn't doctrine. I know it isn't because I read it wasn't on the LDS website.

Justin

[bytebear]

Creating planets, creating universes? Who knows. But we will have no end. There is no end to our potential.

Here is the clearest verse I can find.

D&C 132:

19 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, that he shall commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever.

20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.

It is important to point out that the definition of a god is not one single person who has all the power in the world. In other words, don't think of it asis traditionally though of what a god is.

Instead, a god in Mormon belief is any person or being who is not dammed, that is, who is progressing, increasing, growing, becoming more.

In that sense, since you are progressing, you are a god right now. But you are not yet one with God, because you have not been judged to be worthy of that yet.

God also progresses. He grows because we, his children, grow. Our progression is his progression. And his progression can be ours.

You probably haven't found this because you didn't know what to search for.

General Search

Teachings: John Taylor Chapter 1: The Origin and Destiny of Mankind

Edited November 8, 2013 by bytebear

[jinc1019]

Creating planets, creating universes? Who knows. But we will have no end. There is no end to our potential.

Here is the clearest verse I can find.

It is important to point out that the definition of a god is not one single person who has all the power in the world. In other words, don't think of it asis traditionally though of what a god is.

Instead, a god in Mormon belief is any person or being who is not dammed, that is, who is progressing, increasing, growing, becoming more.

In that sense, since you are progressing, you are a god right now. But you are not yet one with God, because you have not been judged to be worthy of that yet.

God also progresses. He grows because we, his children, grow. Our progression is his progression. And his progression can be ours.

You probably haven't found this because you didn't know what to search for.

General Search

Teachings: John Taylor Chapter 1: The Origin and Destiny of Mankind

Truly great resources and explanation. You summed things up nicely.

[Blackmarch]

I understand that these questions probably come up a lot for Mormons, but that's because there is a lot of information on the Internet and rumors in general that conflict with one another. I have seen Mormon apologetics sites claim that Mormons do believe that they will eventually rule their own planets and that God (the one single all-powerful God) in some way mated (for the lack of a better term) with a goddess to create life in the spirit world.

On the other hand, I have seen sources which seem to suggest neither is true.

For instance, this site: Mormonism 101: FAQ

clearly states that the LDS Church does not officially teach that Mormons get their own planets and nothing is mentioned about a goddess...So which is it?

Do Mormons believe that when they die, they will someday rule their own planets?

Do Mormons believe that God has a goddess partner with whom God populated the world?

I am not judging Mormons either way on the answer, I just would like to know what it is Mormons actually believe and is doctrine and what is not.

The Bible says the faithful will get to rule with Christ, so 'd imagine that what is ruled would depend upon what Christ will rule. For being the secondmost important being that I know of in this universe/reality I think a planet or even millions of planet would be smallfry.

As for children, we do know that we can Become like Christ who is like God, and that we too can have an increase that never ends, like how God has. Now how that happens or is done exactly we don't know yet.

I'd wager planets will end up being small fry for those who are diligent, humble and obedient enough to get that sort of calling.

We do know that we were with God before this world was and that we were his children. we don't yet have what came before that.

I'd also wager that "ruling" planets will end up something similar to how way a bishop rules his ward, or how a stake president rules his stake, and etc on up on ever increasing numbers.

[The Folk Prophet]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I was reading it and I'm a bit flabbergasted by the general responses. Is the consensus here really that LDS folk do NOT believe in a Heavenly Mother?

Really?

Come on.

We do too. It's in our hymn book, after all. You can argue all day what's doctrinal and what isn't, but when we sing it in our meetings, it's hard to argue that we don't believe it.

I believe it. Anyone who doesn't is denying some pretty basic LDS stuff. That's fine I guess. Everyone has their own level of understanding and belief. Everyone justifies what they want to believe with their sense of logic, etc... But as a whole, undoubtedly, the church does believe this and to argue otherwise is silly.

We believe in eternal families. We believe in becoming Gods. We believe in eternal progeny. We believe in becoming like our Heavenly Father -- that we will inherit all that he has and is. To extrapolate from this that we have a Heavenly Mother, even setting aside teachings by Joseph Smith and other prophets, even setting aside the hymn book, is not much of a stretch.

As to owning our own planet...anti-Mormon garbage. We believe we'll create worlds without number, sure. But owning our own planet is anti, inflammatory rhetoric meant to make Mormons sound like weirdos.

[Dravin]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I was reading it and I'm a bit flabbergasted by the general responses. Is the consensus here really that LDS folk do NOT believe in a Heavenly Mother?

Well, lets take a look through the posts that profess that LDS do not believe in a Heavenly Mother.

<Starts scanning the thread>

We have Andy saying he's not sure he believes it but he's working on it. We have several posts professing a belief in Heavenly Mother or that her existence is logical. It's hard to call Andy saying he's unsure to be a consensus that LDS do not believe in a Heavenly Mother. We do have Estradling saying her existence isn't canonized but that isn't a statement that LDS folk don't believe in her. Even if we do take those two posts to be that LDS folk do not believe in Heavenly Mother its hard to call that a consensus.

Really?

No, not really. I did read the thread rather quickly so I'm open to having this implied consensus that LDS folk do not believe in a Heavenly Mother pointed out to me.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Dravin

[The Folk Prophet]

Well, lets take a look through the posts that profess that LDS do not believe in a Heavenly Mother.

<Starts scanning the thread>

We have Andy saying he's not sure he believes it but he's working on it. We have several posts professing a belief in Heavenly Mother or that her existence is logical. It's hard to call Andy saying he's unsure to be a consensus that LDS do not believe in a Heavenly Mother. We do have Estradling saying her existence isn't canonized but that isn't a statement that LDS folk don't believe in her. Even if we do take those two posts to be that LDS folk do not believe in Heavenly Mother its hard to call that a consensus.

No, not really. I did read the thread rather quickly so I'm open to having this implied consensus that LDS folk do not believe in a Heavenly Mother pointed out to me.

Fair enough. It was my impression of the thread I guess. I suppose I just expected more of a "YES!" response rather than the, "it's not doctrine" sort of replies. No worries though.

[prisonchaplain]

I'd also wager that "ruling" planets will end up something similar to how way a bishop rules his ward, or how a stake president rules his stake, and etc on up on ever increasing numbers.

Wait...so I won't get to preach???

[Blackmarch]

Wait...so I won't get to preach???

lol. I get to hear mine preach every month. Edited January 14, 2014 by Blackmarch

[Blackmarch]

but on the serious side if a person is to end up like how God is, I doubt there will be any time that there will be a lack for some need for some preaching somewhere under that persons authority, whether its spirits that have yet to receive a body, or individuals who are going through a mortality, or individuals who have passed beyond mortality.