What would you do if polygamy were reinstituted??

[classylady]

The Church allows a widower to be sealed to more than one wife. Would that be considered serial polygamy, lol? And divorced couples don't necessarily get their sealing cancelled unless the woman remarries and is sealed to her subsequent husband/s. Even, women are able to be sealed by proxy to all husbands that she has had during her lifetime once she is dead. So, is polygamy still part of the Church?

 

If polygamy is reinstated, and my husband took another wife, it would be very difficult for me to feel that I'm number one in his life. I would question his devotion to me. Many marriages fail because the wife doesn't feel she is number one in her husband's life. And that is a "need" that most women require in their marriage. And what about the 2nd wife?  How does she feel like she is number one in her husband's life. These are basic needs that women need in a marriage.  A wife needs emotional security just as she needs financial security.

 

And then of course, there are these questions. What if the husband had a favorite wife? What if he negatively compares one wife over the other? What if finances were strained because of the subsequent wife? How do you have transparency in a marriage when there is more than one wife? How do wives have their privacy if their husband repeats back to the other what is going on with the other wife? And, honesty is required in marriage. Is the husband going to lie if his wife asks questions about what is going on with his relationship with the other wife? How does a husband meet the emotional needs of each wife, especially if the need is exclusivity? Isn't that what marriage is? We promise to be exclusive to one another. I think many men forget how important that is to a woman.

 

All these questions would come into play with polygamy. In reading my great-grandmother's journals these were questions that were buried. Polygamy was hard. It would still be hard if reinstated today. But, if required it could be done. To quote my great grandmother, who was a second wife, and her mother was a third wife "I am grateful that as a heritage it seemed easy for me to accept and live happily in polygamy as one of my father's numerous posterity. And I leave my testimony as to its power in developing Christian ideals of unselfishness and its marvelous experiencing of live and deep consideration of the feelings of others, which we must all learn if we obtain Eternal Salvation."

[classylady]

My great-grandmother was not "given" to her husband.  My great-grandfather met his second wife, and courted her. My great-grandmother insisted that she meet the first wife, and that they had a good relationship before she would consent to marry my great grandfather.

 

My great-great grandfather, when he married his third wife (my 2nd great grandmother), also met her at some point, courted her, and then married her. I do believe though, that my great grandfather's would have needed permission from the First Presidency to be sealed to subsequent wives.

[The Folk Prophet]

The Church allows a widower to be sealed to more than one wife. Would that be considered serial polygamy, lol? And divorced couples don't necessarily get their sealing cancelled unless the woman remarries and is sealed to her subsequent husband/s. Even, women are able to be sealed by proxy to all husbands that she has had during her lifetime once she is dead. So, is polygamy still part of the Church?

 

If polygamy is reinstated, and my husband took another wife, it would be very difficult for me to feel that I'm number one in his life. I would question his devotion to me. Many marriages fail because the wife doesn't feel she is number one in her husband's life. And that is a "need" that most women require in their marriage. And what about the 2nd wife?  How does she feel like she is number one in her husband's life. These are basic needs that women need in a marriage.  A wife needs emotional security just as she needs financial security.

 

And then of course, there are these questions. What if the husband had a favorite wife? What if he negatively compares one wife over the other? What if finances were strained because of the subsequent wife? How do you have transparency in a marriage when there is more than one wife? How do wives have their privacy if their husband repeats back to the other what is going on with the other wife? And, honesty is required in marriage. Is the husband going to lie if his wife asks questions about what is going on with his relationship with the other wife? How does a husband meet the emotional needs of each wife, especially if the need is exclusivity? Isn't that what marriage is? We promise to be exclusive to one another. I think many men forget how important that is to a woman.

 

All these questions would come into play with polygamy. In reading my great-grandmother's journals these were questions that were buried. Polygamy was hard. It would still be hard if reinstated today. But, if required it could be done. To quote my great grandmother, who was a second wife, and her mother was a third wife "I am grateful that as a heritage it seemed easy for me to accept and live happily in polygamy as one of my father's numerous posterity. And I leave my testimony as to its power in developing Christian ideals of unselfishness and its marvelous experiencing of live and deep consideration of the feelings of others, which we must all learn if we obtain Eternal Salvation."

 

It seems you answered the questions in your first two paragraphs in your third paragraph.

[The Folk Prophet]

I do believe though, that my great grandfather's would have needed permission from the First Presidency to be sealed to subsequent wives.

 

Yes, he would. No sealing takes place, ever, without the approval of the the one holding the keys of the sealing power. That permission can be delegated, but the prophet must approve.

[classylady]

It seems you answered the questions in your first two paragraphs in your third paragraph.

 

Yes, I did.  I intended it that way.  But, I also wanted to point out that polygamy is hard.  Not one of us is perfect, and those types of questions will and did arise in polygamous marriages.

[classylady]

Yes, he would. No sealing takes place, ever, without the approval of the the one holding the keys of the sealing power. That permission can be delegated, but the prophet must approve.

 

I knew/know that it was required, but I didn't want to search for documentation if anyone questioned me on it. I often choose my choice of wording carefully, so that I don't have to show documentation. Not because I don't want to, but I simply don't have the time to be researching and showing documentation. In fact, when I first wrote my entry, I typed that permission would be required, but I changed it to "I believe".  This hopefully gets me out of showing documentation.  lol

[Guest]

You're presuming a straight-up lack of desire on both sides. What if the husband, as would be the case eventually once a generation passed or so and the cultural shock of it was settled a bit, actually wanted to take a second wife?

 

I see what you're saying... that it's not that he's commanded to but that he desires to...

 

In this case, at least in my marriage, it will be like him and his football... if I feel the desire is good for him and not harmful for everybody, then go ahead.  If I feel it can cause some harm, then we get to sit down and talk about it.  If it's a sexual relationship he's seeking... we have a whole lot to talk about... I don't know how I'll feel about that part after a generation has passed and the cultural shock of it is settled... as it stands right now, I don't think a generation will matter to me when it comes to the sexual aspect of marriage.  It wouldn't be something I can just be comfortable with.  But then, I don't think my husband would be comfortable with that either, even after a generation has passed.  So, we're still where we are as it stands today.

[Seminarysnoozer]

My great-grandmother was not "given" to her husband.  My great-grandfather met his second wife, and courted her. My great-grandmother insisted that she meet the first wife, and that they had a good relationship before she would consent to marry my great grandfather.

 

My great-great grandfather, when he married his third wife (my 2nd great grandmother), also met her at some point, courted her, and then married her. I do believe though, that my great grandfather's would have needed permission from the First Presidency to be sealed to subsequent wives.

Yes you are right.  From LDS.org; "Some men entered plural marriage because they were asked to do so by Church leaders, while others initiated the process themselves; all were required to obtain the approval of Church leaders before entering a plural marriage."

I guess what I was trying to say is that even if they "initiated the process themselves" it was looked at as a calling to do so, a responsibility, like going on a mission etc.

[The Folk Prophet]

The way I understand it, the second wife has to be "given" by inspiration so who your wife would be giving permission to is not you but God.

 

Where on earth did you come up with this idea?

[bytor2112]

Friday nights woud continue to be date night with Mrs Bytor....and Saturday nights would be.......................................................................................................................................too. B)

[mrmarklin]

What I would do?????

 

I would dial 1-800-colombia ext. hottie

[Suzie]

It's very refreshing to see so many willing and faithful Latter Day Saints men, willing to live Plural Marriage with our single sisters in the Church (60+ and over).

[jerome1232]

It's very refreshing to see so many willing and faithful Latter Day Saints men, willing to live Plural Marriage with our single sisters in the Church (60+ and over).

Even though I think what you are saying is tongue in cheek, I remember looking at the average age of Joseph Smith's wives, and a good number of them had some years packing on them, so what I assume you are alleging doesn't happen, happened.

Logistically, a small amount of polygamy would give women in the church a chance at marriage inside the church where they otherwise would not due to the (slightly?) higher number of females in the church vs males. How is that a terrible thing?

I think the generalization that men who do practice polygamy are just in it for a good looking young second wife is absolutely disgusting and does those who practised it in the past a disfavour, I wish one could look past cultural biases and not place such base accusation against those who may very well be great godly men.

[dahlia]

I don't have a problem with it, but I think there should be a limit on wives based on finances. My son and I have often discussed the benefits of having 1 wife at home with the kids while 1 or 2 others go to work. You just don't want it to end up involving so many people that it becomes hard to find housing, transportation, etc.

[The Folk Prophet]

I don't have a problem with it, but I think there should be a limit on wives based on finances. My son and I have often discussed the benefits of having 1 wife at home with the kids while 1 or 2 others go to work. You just don't want it to end up involving so many people that it becomes hard to find housing, transportation, etc.

 

Haha. Yeah...it's like having more kids to clean the house (though I can testify from my childhood that it doesn't work out that way.)

 

The problem is that the ideal behind plural marriage is to make lots of babies -- which also implies stay-at-home moms. Financially speaking, it really doesn't work.

[andypg]

I'd tell my wife (if I even had one when it happened) that it was up to her and that she'd have to receive a revelation about bringing a second wife in before I did.

[FiveNine]

I don't see much happening, just because it is hypothetically reinstated doesn't mean that marriage can happen on a legal level. And just because it is reinstated does not mean it is required that additional brides be taken either.

[The Folk Prophet]

I'd tell my wife (if I even had one when it happened) that it was up to her and that she'd have to receive a revelation about bringing a second wife in before I did.

 

The required revelation to bring a second wife in (particularly by the first wife) thing is a strange idea. That's they way they do it in some of the break-away LDS sects, but that was never an official part of how it worked. Yes, a revelation that the principle was true might have be in good order. Beyond that, it's like any other marriage, where the parties must be willing. Revelation that they're the "right one" may be all fine and dandy. But certainly not necessary to the righteous enactment of "the principle" as they called it.

 

I know I'm addressing more than you meant. Just sharing my thoughts on it though, by way of discussion.

[Anddenex]

It's very refreshing to see so many willing and faithful Latter Day Saints men, willing to live Plural Marriage with our single sisters in the Church (60+ and over).

 

Well of course Suzie, we have plenty of men in the Church (60+ and over) who would be willing to help these youthful (60+ and older) women out. 

[Anddenex]

Abraham 3: 25; 1 Nephi 3:7; 1 Nephi 17: 3; temple endowment; come to my mind pertaining to this hypothetical scenario.  If we are here to be tested to see if we will do all that God has commanded -- and God commands it -- then I see no reason not to live it.

 

Commands are different than suggestions. :)

 

Thou shalt, if you want to, live the law of chastity.

 

Thou shalt, if you want to, not steal.

 

Thou shalt, if you want to, not murder, lie, cheat, or bear false witness.

 

Thou shalt, feel free to ignore my counsel, not drink alcohol. 

 

If we keep the commandments we prosper in the land, if we keep not the commandments, well, we have no promise. 

[Blackmarch]

I know that the LDS Church no longer practices plural marriage but that at times God has required it from His people. So hypothetically, if tomorrow the prophet received a revelation that God wanted the saints to practice the principle of plural marriage again (and any legal obstacles were cleared away) how would you respond?

I wouldnt worry about it... and I'd have to be called by my leaders to do it, and ya it'll be hard. Wouldn't really look forward to it tho lol.

[Seminarysnoozer]

I think the generalization that men who do practice polygamy are just in it for a good looking young second wife is absolutely disgusting and does those who practised it in the past a disfavour, I wish one could look past cultural biases and not place such base accusation against those who may very well be great godly men.

You're right.  This is why I have been reinforcing the idea that it was done, when it was done under specific circumstances, with leadership approval.  The approval was based in worthiness and need on everyone's part.   It is interesting to me that I get the response "what gave you that idea?" even now that we have historical insight as to how it was done.

[The Folk Prophet]

You're right.  This is why I have been reinforcing the idea that it was done, when it was done under specific circumstances, with leadership approval.  The approval was based in worthiness and need on everyone's part.   It is interesting to me that I get the response "what gave you that idea?" even now that we have historical insight as to how it was done.

 

You're right except for the "need" part. Good luck supporting the idea that all the polygamous marriages were done out of need on everyone's part. That's a pretty big stretch. Beyond that, though, ALL temple marriages are done with leadership approval and based on worthiness. The special circumstance was that God allowed it -- rather, God commanded it.

[Seminarysnoozer]

The required revelation to bring a second wife in (particularly by the first wife) thing is a strange idea. That's they way they do it in some of the break-away LDS sects, but that was never an official part of how it worked. Yes, a revelation that the principle was true might have be in good order. Beyond that, it's like any other marriage, where the parties must be willing. Revelation that they're the "right one" may be all fine and dandy. But certainly not necessary to the righteous enactment of "the principle" as they called it.

 

I know I'm addressing more than you meant. Just sharing my thoughts on it though, by way of discussion.

I disagree, it is not like any other marriage.  The reason to take on a second wife was because there were not enough worthy men for which a woman could enjoy the blessings that come from living the principle of eternal marriage while here on Earth.  With that in mind, the parties involved would have to consider which women would not otherwise have the ability to enjoy the blessings of eternal marriage covenant while on Earth.  This relationship was not based in "falling in love" with someone they meet in the sense of a romantic relationship.  It was more along the lines of a missionary tracting and being inspired to find the one person on the street who may accept the gospel.  It was an inspired calling to help the sister who would otherwise not enjoy the blessing of that covenant but in every way was worthy of it.

Maybe Brigham Young's words will help with the understanding of this, from Journal of Discources; "As far as this pertains to our natural lives here, there are some who say it is very hard. They say, “This is rather a hard business; I don't like my husband to take a plurality of wives in the flesh.” Just a few words upon this. We would believe this doctrine entirely different from what it is presented to us, if we could do so. If we could make every man upon the earth get him a wife, live righteously and serve God, we would not be under the necessity, perhaps, of taking more than one wife. But they will not do this; the people of God, therefore, have been commanded to take more wives. The women are entitled to salvation if they live according to the word that is given to them; and if their husbands are good men, and they are obedient to them, they are entitled to certain blessings, and they will have the privilege of receiving certain blessings that they cannot receive unless they are sealed to men who will be exalted."

 

He then goes on to explain that a man who does not want to take on plural wives at that time is kind of the like the parable of the ten talents, the one who takes his one talent and hides it, in the end he will be left with none because he did not use his talent to his fullest.  In other words, the practice of plural marriage at that time was for the ones who had that "talent", the ability to allow women who couldn't otherwise receive the blessings of eternal marriage covenant with God in their earthly life.  The same kind of blessings and punishments would apply, for example, to one who has been called to the work of being a missionary but does not pursue it fully and fails to spread the word and harvest those that are ready to be harvested. It was an inspired work based in spiritual needs not based in romantic interests.  That is what, unfortunately, the world has misconceived about the practice of polygamy, that it somehow was based in romantic relationships and not a calling from God under inspired direction.

 

We don't have to consider this a part of the eternal plan if it was, at least in part, based on the ratio of women to men who were ready to receive the blessing of the covenent but needed a stand-in, a vicarious representative as we do with many ordinances, to allow them to receive the blessings on earth, as in the eternities one could imagine the number of men and women within the Celestial Kingdom to be fairly equal.  Consider the idea that more young men die before the age of 8 then women and that total number far exceeds the number of people who have gone through the temple in mortality. Of course, I don't know this for sure, but I think it is very possible that the ratio of men to women in the Celestial Kingdom is fairly equal as it is balanced by the higher mortality rates of young boys compared to young girls.  There will be no need for polygamy in the Celestial realm but there will be a need for eternal marriage.  Unfortunately, I think the discussion of the need for the covenant of eternal marriage for women who didn't have the opportunity to receive it while in the mortal realm gets superimposed on the "need" for plural marriage and in some people's minds becomes one in the same as they cannot separate out those two things.  Plural marriage is not necessary if every worthy woman had a worthy man to take to the temple. WIthout that, there is no other need for plural marriage that I am aware of.

[Seminarysnoozer]

You're right except for the "need" part. Good luck supporting the idea that all the polygamous marriages were done out of need on everyone's part. That's a pretty big stretch. Beyond that, though, ALL temple marriages are done with leadership approval and based on worthiness. The special circumstance was that God allowed it -- rather, God commanded it.

I don't need luck, just Brigham Youngs words.   If God commanded it, it is a need.  Good luck separating "need" from commandment!!

 

As Brigham Young explains, the "need" (used the word necesity) from the man's standpoint is that if he has a talent (living a Celestial worthy marriage) then it should not be hidden and if hidden when asked not to be hidden, it will be taken away as the parable of the ten talents suggested.  So, for even the man who takes on the calling of plural marriage when plural marriage is commanded, it becomes a needful thing for his salvation.

 

Brigham Young; "Now, where a man in this Church says, “I don't want but one wife, I will live my religion with one,” he will perhaps be saved in the celestial kingdom; but when he gets there he will not find himself in possession of any wife at all. He has had a talent that he has hid up. He will come forward and say, “Here is that which thou gavest me, I have not wasted it, and here is the one talent,” and he will not enjoy it, but it will be taken and given to those who have improved the talents they received, and he will find himself without any wife, and he will remain single forever and ever."