Is it possible to be liberal and LDS?

[ItsRoger]

Whoops, double post.

Edited December 10, 2014 by ItsRoger

[Windseeker]

I should also note that being a liberal does NOT mean you have to be pro-choice, or accept same sex marriage. Unfortunately, these social issues often act as a red herring to political fiscal issues. 

 

Then color me liberal then...

[LatterDaySane]

Let's see... I think it's sometimes difficult - not impossible - to have liberal political views and be LDS at the same time.

Can I share a little about myself? I consider myself more than mostly liberal. In fact, I don't think I would ever vote for a Repubican. I support same-sex marriage in a civil setting, I'm not a typical family-oriented mormon, I don't mind watching rated R movies or listening to secular music on Sundays, I support the welfare program, marrying outside of your race and social status, and most importantly I love the Church. What's difficult and sometimes offending is when I'm in a group of people where everyone is LDS and one or two of them start criticizing Obama and making offensive comments about the Democatric party in front of everyone. It's very easy for them to assume that everyone in the church is politically conservative. I instantly add those people to my black list, simple as that. I do, however, like members that are respectful about the comments they make when the subject is politics.

[PolarVortex]

Let's see... I think it's sometimes difficult - not impossible - to have liberal political views and be LDS at the same time.

Can I share a little about myself? I consider myself more than mostly liberal. In fact, I don't think I would ever vote for a Repubican. I support same-sex marriage in a civil setting, I'm not a typical family-oriented mormon, I don't mind watching rated R movies or listening to secular music on Sundays, I support the welfare program, marrying outside of your race and social status, and most importantly I love the Church. What's difficult and sometimes offending is when I'm in a group of people where everyone is LDS and one or two of them start criticizing Obama and making offensive comments about the Democatric party in front of everyone. It's very easy for them to assume that everyone in the church is politically conservative. I instantly add those people to my black list, simple as that. I do, however, like members that are respectful about the comments they make when the subject is politics.

 

That's too bad that you experienced this, it's not right.

 

But it cuts both ways.  I have lived off and on in one of the bluest cities of a deeply blue state.  When I was a Republican (I am libertarian now), I actually had to register as a permanent absentee voter.  If I voted in person the poll workers would see my party registration and treat me like a diseased pariah.  It was my first experience with discrimination by angry looks, and it really opened my eyes to how hard life has been to some groups in this country.

 

It's a shame so many humans behave this way.  I just listened to a "Fresh Air" (with Terry Gross) podcast about the comedian Bob Hope.  They played one of Mr. Hope's routines that made fun of gay people.  It was really mean and it totally made me cringe.  Afterwards Ms. Gross and the guest (who had written a biography of Mr. Hope) snickered at how mean and bigoted Mr. Hope was.  But it wasn't Mr. Hope's jokes that bothered me, because he was just one person.  What bothered me was the nonstop laughter from a very, very large audience. 

[Vort]

What's difficult and sometimes offending is when I'm in a group of people where everyone is LDS and one or two of them start criticizing Obama and making offensive comments about the Democatric party in front of everyone.

 

So Church members are not allowed to dislike Obama's politics or the Democrat party in your presence, lest you mentally write them off forever. How very tolerant and open-minded of you. I must admit, you do indeed sound almost exactly like a liberal Democrat.

[LatterDaySane]

Vort. I think I should have given more details about that type of situation I sometimes find myself in.

Let's be serious. Republicans are a majority in the church. Most of my close LDS friends are indeed Republican. What I don't like is the generalization and offending comments such as: "The liberals (democrats) just want to get money from the government and not work. They're lazy. I hate Obama and his policies"

I'm a Democrat, and I work and go to school with my own money. Now you see my point? I lose all respect for people who make these comments as I believe they don't have any respect for the opinion or political views of those around them.

[estradling75]

Vort. I think I should have given more details about that type of situation I sometimes find myself in.

Let's be serious. Republicans are a majority in the church. Most of my close LDS friends are indeed Republican. What I don't like is the generalization and offending comments such as: "The liberals (democrats) just want to get money from the government and not work. They're lazy. I hate Obama and his policies"

I'm a Democrat, and I work and go to school with my own money. Now you see my point? I lose all respect for people who make these comments as I believe they don't have any respect for the opinion or political views of those around them.

 

 

So you strongly dislike people who take one aspect of a thing/person/idea and assume that is all there is to it in forming there opinion or talking about it... That when you hear people doing this you take this one aspect about a person you assume that is all there is to it in forming your opinion or talking about them?

[LatterDaySane]

Yup.

[Vort]

Vort. I think I should have given more details about that type of situation I sometimes find myself in.

Let's be serious. Republicans are a majority in the church. Most of my close LDS friends are indeed Republican. What I don't like is the generalization and offending comments such as: "The liberals (democrats) just want to get money from the government and not work. They're lazy. I hate Obama and his policies"

I'm a Democrat, and I work and go to school with my own money. Now you see my point? I lose all respect for people who make these comments as I believe they don't have any respect for the opinion or political views of those around them.

 

I can only assume, then, that when you hear your liberal friends disparage and talk filth about George W. Bush or criticize Republican politicians as "obstructionist", you lose all respect for them and write them off, too.

 

Yes?

[LatterDaySane]

To be honest, Vort, politics is the last thing I want to talk about. My liberal friends and I don't get together to talk about Mitt Romney or George W Bush. I believe strong opinions should kept to ourselves. All I'm asking is not to generalize, assume that everyone in the church is a Republican, or make offending remarks about the opposite political party in front of everyone. You never know who you could be offending. It's more of a personal advice from a convert rather than an argument.

Edited December 13, 2014 by LatterDaySane

[Vort]

To be honest, Vort, politics is the last thing I want to talk about. My liberal friends and I don't get together to talk about Mitt Romney or George W Bush. I believe strong opinions should kept to ourselves. All I'm asking is not to generalize, assume that everyone in the church is a Republican, or make offending remarks about the opposite political party in front of everyone. You never know who you could be offending. It's more of a personal advice from a convert rather than an argument.

 

Funny thing is, I pretty much agree with everything you say. I simply have difficulty believing you apply these rules in anything remotely approaching a consistent manner. You do exactly as you criticize others for doing; as estradling pointed out, and as you agreed with:

 

 

 

So you strongly dislike people who take one aspect of a thing/person/idea and assume that is all there is to it in forming there opinion or talking about it... That when you hear people doing this you take this one aspect about a person you assume that is all there is to it in forming your opinion or talking about them?

[LatterDaySane]

I never said I wouldn't. It's so easy to judge, so what I do is not to get involved in these conversations, as politics is a controversial topic. I'm sure if I ever made nasty comments about Mitt Rommey during dinner or in class, at least half the people present would be offended by me. Now, why would I want to do that?

To answer the question of this thread: Is it possible to be liberal and LDS? Yes, if you're willing to tolerate being a political minority.

[Windseeker]

I'm not a typical family-oriented mormon, ... I support the welfare program, marrying outside of your race and social status

 

 

Well now,

 

I consider myself a typical family-oriented mormon and happened to have married outside of my race. Actually there are several other forum members here who married outside their race as well. Perhaps you need to re-evaluate your view of typical family-oriented mormons. 

 

Were not as backwards as you think.

[Vort]

I never said I wouldn't.

 

But how do you justify that? Is it not the very definition of hypocrisy?

[LatterDaySane]

So now it's me against 2 or 3 people. What did I say earlier about liberals being a minority in the church? Anyway... I'm not going to leave the church only because most people in it don't agree with me.

[Windseeker]

Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they are against you.

[Backroads]

What in the world does marrying outside your race and social status have to do with being liberal? Are they some bragging badge?

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

So now it's me against 2 or 3 people. What did I say earlier about liberals being a minority in the church? Anyway... I'm not going to leave the church only because most people in it don't agree with me.

 

LatterDaySane, I see that you are new here.  Welcome!

 

I wouldn't say I am a Liberal, but I'm certainly not Conservative either.  I agree with you.  It can be awkward being a minority in the church.  I left the Republican party after Pres. George W. Bush campaigned on how he believed in "smaller government" and then brought us the Patriot Act.  He must have a vasty different definition of "smaller government" than I do.  

Funny thing is, when I complained about him on a different LDS board, I was chided with how we should "respect our leaders". And lectures about patriotism etc.  Those same people think nothing of speaking poorly about Pres. Obama though.  

[The Folk Prophet]

...I support same-sex marriage in a civil setting, I'm not a typical family-oriented mormon, I don't mind watching rated R movies or listening to secular music on Sundays,...

 

Interesting example of things that are directly contrasting to the principles and standards of the church, and yet used somehow to try and support the idea that we can be...let's see, how might we put it...serving God and mammon.

[Suzie]

I was chided with how we should "respect our leaders". And lectures about patriotism etc.  Those same people think nothing of speaking poorly about Pres. Obama though.  

 

Oh that's a classic.

[Just_A_Guy]

Hey--who says we can't learn from each other?  As a number of wise people said back during the Dubya administration--he's not my President!

 

(Tongue planted firmly in cheek.)

Edited December 13, 2014 by Just_A_Guy

[Guest]

To be honest, Vort, politics is the last thing I want to talk about. My liberal friends and I don't get together to talk about Mitt Romney or George W Bush. I believe strong opinions should kept to ourselves. All I'm asking is not to generalize, assume that everyone in the church is a Republican, or make offending remarks about the opposite political party in front of everyone. You never know who you could be offending. It's more of a personal advice from a convert rather than an argument.

Is this an American thing? It's just so wierd to me that you can't talk about your political views lest you offend somebody... It's like a bunch of onionskins you have to tiptoe around. If don't like whatever President's policies, I have no problem saying it to anybody. I mean, it's no different to me when saying I don't like funeral potatoes to people wolfing down funeral potatoes...

[bytor2112]

I left the Republican party after Pres. George W. Bush campaigned on how he believed in "smaller government" and then brought us the Patriot Act. 

 

 

Well...your head must be spinning like a top then after past 6 years. 

[Bini]

We're in Utah and my husband was in the office one day, and a colleague started running his mouth on political stuff, and just assumed that my husband was also a Republican. My husband said nothing and continued on with his work. At the end of this man's long winded rant, he turns to my husband and waits for a response. My husband just smiled and said, "I voted for the other guy."

 

Anymore, I'm not too interested in becoming involved in heated discussions, especially with friends and family. Almost always, someone in the group is going to be hurt by something said, whether intentional or unintentional. It's just not worth it, straining relationships just to debate over something that both parties are unlikely to change their minds on. I'm seriously amazed at how well my husband handles himself in the middle of hot topics. If asked, he'll share his opinion, but he's not one to feel he has to prove he's right and use tactics that put others on the defense. He's also smarter than to make broad assumptions about people, like the guy at his work. (And yes, if you're in a densely Democratic region, it could be vice versa.)

[bytor2112]

Liberalism has a face to most conservatives. The face looks like Occupy and Answer and Move on, Hollywood elites. etc. It's disruptive, destructive and anti-values and exploits, divides and creates contention. It's built on lies and coercion and Obama and the Democratic Party embrace it and perpetuate it. It does not have the appearance of anything righteous..

 

Want to change perception....change the above. 

Edited December 13, 2014 by bytor2112