Mission service: Culture, or canon?

[Vort]

And that's where we sharply disagree and won't ever agree. I only feel that a mission should be done by those who truly feel it as a calling and not as a "duty". 

 

You are welcome to your opinion, Gator. I'm not looking for converts.

 

But if we are interested in discovering God's opinion about things, I think we would do well to look to what his anointed leaders have to say. And they have had a lot to say about doing one's missionary duty. I can provide numerous citations, if you like.

[Guest MormonGator]

You are welcome to your opinion, Gator. I'm not looking for converts.

 

 

 Ironically on that we agree on! I don't look for converts either-I usually just say what I want too as well. In fact, I've noticed in my own personal life the people I'm closest too (friends, wife) don't agree on much! 

[Jane_Doe]

If that were the case, then I never would have gone. And that would have been a tragic void in my life.

 

I see nothing wrong with serving a mission because you feel it's your duty. I can't figure out why that would be seen as a negative. Don't we WANT our sons to do their duty?

 

I'm going to start off by saying that Vort, I'm happy you went on a mission and had a fulfilling experience.  

 

That being said, I highly advise against any person serving a mission because of "duty".  A missionary whom does not know the Spirit and feel the Gospel deep in his heart is a mission house built on sand.  Yes, there are some which get their stuff together and find that solid foundation while in the field (like Vort), but most houses built on sand simply wash out.

 

And yeah, this is something that us forum members are just going to have to agree to disagree.  Oh well  :)

Edited June 9, 2015 by Jane_Doe

[Jane_Doe]

 Ironically on that we agree on! I don't look for converts either-I usually just say what I want too as well. In fact, I've noticed in my own personal life the people I'm closest too (friends, wife) don't agree on much! 

 

Lol!

[estradling75]

I'm going to start off by saying that Vort, I'm happy you went on a mission and had a fulfilling experience.  

 

That being said, I highly advise against any person serving a mission because of "duty".  A missionary whom does not know the Spirit and feel the Gospel deep in his heart is a mission house built on sand.  Yes, there are some which get their stuff together and find that solid foundation while in the field (like Vort), but most houses built on sand simply wash out.

 

 

That why the commandment and Duty is to prepare to serve.  Your example above is an example of someone who went on their mission without actually doing the duty to prepare...

 

Its not surprising that if you fail to do the prep work you also will fail the rest of the work as well.

 

Your example isn't one of doing your duty.... Your example shows the quite clearly consequence of failure to do their duty 

[The Folk Prophet]

That being said, I highly advise against any person serving a mission because of "duty".  

 

I'll quote President Monson:

 

"Do your duty, that is best. Leave unto the Lord the rest."

 

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2005/10/do-your-duty-that-is-best?lang=eng

[The Folk Prophet]

More from Monson on Duty:

 

"Brethren of the Aaronic Priesthood, whether deacon, teacher, or priest, learn your duty. Brethren of the Melchizedek Priesthood, learn your duty."

 

"The priesthood is not really so much a gift as it is a commission to serve, a privilege to lift, and an opportunity to bless the lives of others."

 

And from George Q Cannon (in the same Monson talk):

 

“I want to see the power of the Priesthood strengthened. … I want to see this strength and power diffused through the entire body of the Priesthood, reaching from the head down to the least and most humble deacon in the Church. Every man should seek for and enjoy the revelations of God, the light of heaven shining in his soul and giving unto him knowledge concerning his duties, concerning that portion of the work of God that devolves upon him in his Priesthood.”

[Guest MormonGator]

So if my future child says "Dad, I'm not LDS. I don't believe in it." My response should be "Shut up and go on a mission. It's your duty." 

 

Prophet or not, I truly, truly don't understand that way of thinking. 

 

I admit that I'm not really the authoritarian type. That probably has something to do with it.   

Edited June 9, 2015 by MormonGator

[The Folk Prophet]

So if my future child says "Dad, I'm not LDS. I don't believe in it." My response should be "Shut up and go on a mission. It's your duty." 

 

It strikes me that you're being intentionally obtuse in this, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

Clearly the response should be to continue to minister to your future child and persuade them through the proper methods (a la D&C 121) to become LDS and to gain a testimony of doing their duty.

 

No one is saying that someone should be forced to go on a mission unwillingly. What we are saying is that every young man should be taught that he ought to desire to go, ought to feel obligated by his duty to his priesthood to go, ought to feel compelled by his love of the Lord and willingness to do whatever has been asked of him, etc.

[Guest MormonGator]

It strikes me that you're being intentionally obtuse in this, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

 Thanks. I'm just not as brilliant as everyone else. It takes my meager intellectual abilities longer to process things. So your initial impression was incorrect but thanks for the benefit if the doubt just the same. 

Edited June 9, 2015 by MormonGator

[omegaseamaster75]

For me I advocate mission service, I served like my father before me. I would say 2 of the better spent years of my life and a true growth opportunity as a person and in the gospel.

 

My father always spoke well of his mission this was a big factor in my desire to serve. Having had such a great time on mine I will also speak well of my service and hope and pray that my kids decide to follow in my foot steps.

 

Many things go into choosing to go on a mission and a testimony of the gospel is one of them, this is not an easy thing for most 17-18 yo kids. We have a generation of youth that come from broken homes, and have real tragedy in their families and personal lives. Probably one of the many reason that our leaders chose to lower the mission age.

 

No one should be thought less of because the timing was not right for them to serve and there should be no undo pressure either. I served with many cultural Mormons....while we served in the same place at the same time our experiences were very different

[Vort]

Every young LDS man should prepare himself to serve a mission. Every one. No exceptions.

 

So if my future child says "Dad, I'm not LDS. I don't believe in it." My response should be "Shut up and go on a mission. It's your duty." 

 

Prophet or not, I truly, truly don't understand that way of thinking. 

 

Could be as simple as you're not reading clearly. :)

 

I'm going to start off by saying that Vort, I'm happy you went on a mission and had a fulfilling experience.  

 

That being said, I highly advise against any person serving a mission because of "duty".  A missionary whom does not know the Spirit and feel the Gospel deep in his heart is a mission house built on sand.  Yes, there are some which get their stuff together and find that solid foundation while in the field (like Vort), but most houses built on sand simply wash out.

 

A couple of unwarranted assumptions: First, I never suggested that I did not have a solid foundation in the gospel or lacked testimony, only that I was going out of a deep sense of duty rather than because I felt I had received revelation to go. Second, as TFP has pointed out, our leaders have been unambiguous in declaring our duty to serve a mission. If they, who have the keys to the kingdom and its leadership, consider duty to be a perfectly valid reason to serve a mission, who are we to say they are wrong?

[Guest MormonGator]

 

 

Could be as simple as you're not reading clearly. :)

 

 

 

Yup. Or it could also be that since we view things so vastly differently (and that's ok!) it's like we are speaking a different language.

[Vort]

Yup. Or it could also be that since we view things so vastly differently (and that's ok!) it's like we are speaking a different language.

 

I think you missed my attempt at humor. I had specified "every young LDS man", and you responded with an example of a non-LDS young man.

[unixknight]

I'm with Gator.  Going through the motions is no way to spread the Gospel, sorry.  I've seen the arguments and I will be in the "agree to disagree" camp.

 

Yes, I know a lot of quotes have been taken from high ranking personnel on whether it's something ABSOLUTELY EVERY young man/woman should do but I suspect there are matters of context there, and none of those quotes strike me as absolute as some of you guys are being.  (Know who deals in absolutes? Sith and Pharisees.)

 

My oldest son is serving as a Ward Executive Secretary and coordinator for FHE activities for university students who are away from home.  

 

He didn't feel prompted to go on a mission, so he didn't.

 

But I guess by some peoples' definitions he just ain't Mormon enough.  It would seem the authorities in his Ward (as well as Heavenly Father, since it is from Him all callings originate) disagree.  I guess we know which matters more 

[The Folk Prophet]

(Know who deals in absolutes? Sith and Pharisees.)

 

And Christ.

[The Folk Prophet]

My oldest son is serving as a Ward Executive Secretary and coordinator for FHE activities for university students who are away from home.  

 

He didn't feel prompted to go on a mission, so he didn't.

 

But I guess by some peoples' definitions he just ain't Mormon enough.  It would seem the authorities in his Ward (as well as Heavenly Father, since it is from Him all callings originate) disagree.  I guess we know which matters more 

 

This is a pretty severe straw man, as being "Mormon enough" isn't really what the discussion is at all.

[Guest MormonGator]

I'm with Gator. 

 Chomp chomp my friend. 

Edited June 9, 2015 by MormonGator

[unixknight]

And Christ.

 

I'll try and keep that in mind next time I'm reading the scriptures when He would call the Pharisees out for being litigious and absolutely rigid in their doctrinal interpretation.

 

Matthew 12:11

[unixknight]

This is a pretty severe straw man, as being "Mormon enough" isn't really what the discussion is at all.

 

I don't think so.  When you put yourself into the position of telling someone they're "doing it wrong" because, in your estimation, they aren't doing their duty by slavishly serving a mission whether the Spirit prompts them to or not, that's basically the message that comes across.

 

Maybe that isn't how you mean it, but that sure is how it sounds.

[The Folk Prophet]

I'll try and keep that in mind next time I'm reading the scriptures when He would call the Pharisees out for being litigious and absolutely rigid in their doctrinal interpretation.

 

Matthew 12:11

 

Can we add Luke 11:23 to the discussion?

 

Perhaps Luke 16:13?

 

Even John 14:15?

 

Are not these and many other teachings absolutes?

[unixknight]

Sure let's add them, I don't see how they relate directly to this topic but but you're appear to be setting up a false dichotomy here.  Some things are absolute.  We have to be baptized, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable, etc.  Not everything is.  For other things, we have discernment.

 

Are you saying we aren't supposed to use our discernment and follow the promptings of the Spirit?  

[The Folk Prophet]

I don't think so.  When you put yourself into the position of telling someone they're "doing it wrong" because, in your estimation, they aren't doing their duty by slavishly serving a mission whether the Spirit prompts them to or not, that's basically the message that comes across.

 

Maybe that isn't how you mean it, but that sure is how it sounds.

 

Well that's an easy trick. It "sounds" that way. What a great way to get out of ever having anyone tell you what you should or should not do with your life, what is or is not right or wrong, or what matter of men ye ought to be. That may suit many people's sense of "leave me alone", "none of your business", "it's my own life", etc., but it certainly isn't in line with the mandate to exhort, preach, and declare repentance to this generation.

 

Regardless, you can apply any interpretation to anything you want said by anyone. That doesn't legitimize the straw man.

[unixknight]

There's a pretty big difference between matters of absolute morality and matters of discernment.  You seem to be treating the two the same.  

 

No offense, but that's the intellectually easy way.  "A General Authority said we should do x therefore to not do it is to fail to do one's duty."  I remember when church members were absolutely, rigidly refusing to watch any movie rated R by the MPAA on the grounds that some General Authority suggested they not.  To them, it became a Commandment.  No discernment, no judgement, no praying for guidance, they'd just do it like their Temple Recommend depended on it.

 

Tell me, if it's such an absolute duty, then why doesn't a failure to go on a mission bar someone from having a Temple Recommend?  Because it isn't an absolute rule, that's why.  If I'm a 21 year old young man in the Church and I smoke a joint I have to repent of it before I can go to the Temple, but I can completely blow off a mission and no problem.  And that's without even bringing up the question of whether or not the Spirit even prompted me to.

 

You can keep accusing me of building a strawman if you feel like it helps your argument, brother, but that is the position you've taken from where I sit.  If you feel I've misunderstood something then I'd ask you to clarify it, but just by way of a friendly FYI, accusing someone of a strawman is rather like accusing them of dishonesty, and I'm assuming you don't mean it that way.

[priesthoodpower]

Did you just state casually that you can't wait for our prophets and apostles to die?

 

 

lol, no, the platform that the prophets and apostles speak from is very different from that of our local leaders, and moving "up and on" doesnt mean to die it could also mean to complete a calling and be replaced by the next person.